Issues With Runtime: How Long Does Final NEED to be?

[Gendo'sPapa]

People get so hung up on runtimes.

As Freaky said - the best Evangelion film is also the shortest Evangelion film. If you include the mid-film credits between Episodes '25 & '26 which are about 5 minutes themselves then EOE comes in at a very slim 82 minutes.

And the movie is a masterpiece. The movie also doesn't dick around with filling in the blanks for people. It just goes for the soul of what makes the story work. Thus the movie works. Hanging plot threads be damned.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Oh, I was even counting the worthless opening logos, SEGA, Production I.G., and so on in EoE. Those things go on forever, adding even more screen time to the movie.

[ElMariachi]

The movie also doesn't dick around with filling in the blanks for people. It just goes for the soul of what makes the story work. Thus the movie works. Hanging plot threads be damned.

Except that what happened in the timeskip isn't just hanging plot lines, that's different from what EoE was: sure if it was just about what happened during the timeskip it can take the EoE and explain everything quickly: "after N3I, this and that happened to NERV, then the 12th Angel attacked and we couldn't stop it, which ravaged the landscape/country/world, then Kaji revealed the truth about Gendo and SEELE so we split and founded WILLE, a few years ago we built/stole the Wunder, and here we are now".
Maybe linger a little more about the 12th Angel attack since it seems to concern Shinji's story, but that's it, and effectively in a few minutes it's done.

But as I said, the timeskip wasn't just about that, it also had lots of huge character development, one of the people changed even being the deuteragonist of the first movie: Misato, and the tritagonist of Q and possible deuteragonist of FINAL: Asuka.

That's the reason why I want to see the timeskip explored more, to see the character development of those characters that we followed through two movies.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

It's not really 'hanging plot lines'. They're not hanging: 3.33 is actively holding on to them, without us having any knowledge of what happened between the connections of the end of Ha and the start of Q.

Looks like El got his response in first.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I never found Misato’s character (or Asuka’s for that matter,) that different in Q. Misato is still wondering what to do with Shinji, just like she was in Jo. Granted the situation is different, but all of the answers as to what makes this situation different is already apparent in the movie Q itself: She heads Willie, an organization that broke away from Nerv because they found out that they don’t like want Nerv and Seele are up to. Beyond that, what we really need to know is what Nerv and Seele are up to, which probably didn’t take all of 14 years of realization for Misato to see what they’re doing.

And Asuka’s character is easy. She was always a little harsh in Ha, and her more optimistic tone towards the end was young and underdeveloped. So much so, in fact, that it didn’t survive her nearly dying at the hands of a rouge Unit 03. I think that’s a significant enough of an event that we saw to justify any character changes we see in Asuka in Q. If you don’t think that it is, then you’re probably underplaying the impact that a near-death experience can have on someone.

It doesn’t take 14 years for any of these character changes to happen. Again, the only truly useful information would be with the 12th Angel, and that can be summarized in a dialogue-heavy info dump.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

It doesn’t take 14 years for any of these character changes to happen.

Which, because not much time passed over the period in which these changes happened, would be excellent to watch in a movie. Seeing characters change is always more fun than just seeing the two versions side by side.

Also, I just had an interesting thought on the matter over here.

[Ray]

And given these attitudes have been hammered into these characters for the past fourteen years due to the war with Neo-Nerv, and/or resentment towards Shinji for the part he played in ending the world. Can they believably go back to being the characters we knew, or at least come around to caring for Shinji as a human being again with a minimum of Runtime explaining how and why they should?

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

I don't think they'll ever go back to being the same characters, and character regression is boring. However, I don't think it's out of the question for them to reconcile with Shinji. I also don't know how likely it is.

[TMBounty_Hunter]

Oh they'll have to reconcile with Shinji. He's their only hope. Only and can stop

[Sicarius VI]

Oh they'll have to reconcile with Shinji. He's their only hope. Only and can stop

To add, it doesn't matter if they try to control Shinji, and it doesn't matter if they want him to pilot or not, Shinji is going to get back in the Eva. Also for example if they try for whatever reason to execute Shinji, Yui is gonna have something to say about it, and a few assholes might be torn in the process(just saying). Also for the fact if something bad happens to Shinji there is a high chance Unit-01 might want to stop being the Wunder's only source of power. Not only that but Unit-01 could also detach itself from the Wunder grab Shinji and just leave, likely Using the A.T wings(like the ones in EOE). Also not for nothing, I think Misato privately wanted to try atleast to reconcile, even if it in the deepest locked up part of her heart that she hasn't touched for 14 years. She couldn't take herself to kill Shinji.

[Ray]

@NuclearLunchbox
Can it believably be done in only one movie though?

@Sicarus

Also not for nothing, I think Misato privately wanted to try atleast to reconcile, even if it in the deepest locked up part of her heart that she hasn't touched for 14 years. She couldn't take herself to kill Shinji.

"Then why couldn't have you been nice to me?"

EDIT:

Misato and Asuka, died when Shinji set off N3I. The captain of the Wunder and the Pilot of Unit 02 may have their names, but they aren't them.

Maybe it won't hurt so much if I accept that there won't be enough screentime for them to reconcile or have it explained how the characters changed, that way when we eventually get the news about the inevitably short run-time, it won't be as heartbreaking as if I had dared to hope.

[Sicarius VI]

"Then why couldn't have you been nice to me?"

"We are nice to you."


Edit to respond to Ray's Edit- If final does have a short run time, then I'll believe that statement, many of the "good things" people want to happen in 4.0 can really only come if it is at least as 10 minutes longer than 2.0, but that always is something to be concerned about, what if it is shorter than we think. But then again, which Gendo'spapa said, economy of sceen time also matters. But that has already been talked to death in other threads, I'm not going anymore than that, I'm just saying I can see where your pessimism is coming from Ray, even if I don't agree with it.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

@NuclearLunchbox
Can it believably be done in only one movie though?

I don't know, in all honesty. I'd like to believe it possible, but since I don't know a) what happened or b) how Anno feels like he wants to approach the matter, it would be difficult for me to make a conclusive statement on what I believe can happen.

[Na7e]

"Then why couldn't have you been nice to me?"

We were nice to you Shinji. You're the one who walked out of my home and then blew up the world

[pwhodges]

@NuclearLunchbox
Can it believably be done in only one movie though?

(Sigh) How many times have the rest of us said Yes?

[GoatJesus]

Here's hoping to 2 and a half or 3 hours. Even so, adding characters will NOT be wise and neither will focusing on anyone else but our main guys. I think Misato needs dat motivation cleared up--or at least implied better. Asuka needs to have...anything... Seriously. Shinji and Rei need to resolve. Mari maybe should get some kind of closure? Plus we need plot closure. Right now, 3.0 + 1.0 doesn't really have a main goal in mind other than--stopping Nerv from doing--something? But yeah. TO do that, 3 hours me thinks.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

The independently produced NTE series probably doesn’t have the budget for the 3-hour extraordinaire.

[ThanatosII]

I believe it should be long enough to cover solvency for Shinji.I sorta feel like there isn't much for Rebuild Shinji to reflect on anyway. I mean, he leapt 10 steps ahead of NGE!Shinji by saying, "I don't care what anyone says" and NGE!Shinji didn't reach that conclusion until episode 26. Even in 3.33, I believe Shinji was still okay as a person psychological, but it's just that he was treated like a patient from an insane asylum. The only glaring issue Rebuild Shinji faces, from what I can tell, is that he has trouble letting go of the past. This probably is a direct message to the zealous fans of NGE/EoE, and may be something Anno wants to hit home with in FINAL. Other plot elements such as Wille, Mari, and Angels we've never heard of I think are probably just distractions for us fans that deter us from any core messages Anno is trying to throw at us. If it's true that Mari was intentionally put in Evangelion to destroy the universe we were once familiar with, then giving her a backstory or a meaningful purpose would be counter intuitive to Anno's original intentions.

So with that said, I don't believe FINAL will be really all that long. Do I as a fan want a long lengthed film to cover things such as Mari? Hell yes! However, what I want pretty much goes against the current of what Anno wants us to come to terms with, and that may be letting go of Eva as a whole to move on (like that will ever happen, right?).

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

The independently produced NTE series probably doesn’t have the budget for the 3-hour extraordinaire.

Anno's probably rolling in money (unless there's something that I haven't read), so I doubt that funding would be a reason why we got a short movie.

[Reichu]

How long does [s]Final[/s] Shin need to be?

As long as it needs to be.

Anno's probably rolling in money (unless there's something that I haven't read), so I doubt that funding would be a reason why we got a short movie.

Traditional animation is both expensive and takes lots of time to produce. Perhaps also worth noting that animators in Japan typically get paid the monetary equivalent of dog shit for their work. Since khara is an independent studio ostensibly using Eva films as a spring-board for future projects, it wouldn't make any sense for the founder to blow all of his resources on them. Furthermore, in order to get the films completed as soon as possible AND with the maximum amount of control, less screen time to animate and fewer studios that need to be outsourced to is a plus. I'd also like to hope that khara employees get a decent wage, even if it's at the expense of butt-numbingly long theatrical extravaganzas.

Bigger is not better.