Misato's feelings towards Shinji at the start of Q

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

Moderators: Rebuild/OT Moderators, Board Staff

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6899
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:58 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:I'd argue Misato in 3.0 is being the nicest & most caring to Shinji she's ever been. Everyone gets their panties in a bunch because Misato isn't coddling & being a dotting mother to Shinji in the third film but for the first time in the series - NGE included - she's telling him "NO. You do NOT need to go out there on the battlefield & face certain death for us." She's denying him the chance to go out & die & is instead keeping him as far away from conflict as possible. For the first time in the NGE universe she's being a real mother - i.e. she's NOT sending her surrogate child out to possibly die but is keeping him safe.

Interesting analysis, it's true that now that the Angels aren't around anymore, Shinji isn't indispensable anymore, which is a shame since at this time he finally found his own reason and motivation to fight (to protect those he has come to care about)

Still, I think that there were better ways to tell him that he didn't had to go on the battlefield anymore than basically publicly humiliating him in front of the whole Command Bridge crew. (the explosive collar being here for completely unrelated reasons)


xanderkh wrote:THAT'S why Misato wanted Shinji to "do nothing anymore", specifically everything Eva. Not because she was being a bitch that hated Shinji for what he did, but to not only protect the world, but to protect HIM as well, cause if he got in Eva again being what he is, they will HAVE to kill him, and apparently, she didn't want that. THAT'S what you're missing with this details Ray, that Misato DOES care.

That's something I never understood thought: why did they thought that he would get inside an Eva again, or that he would even be able to get in an Eva again?
Look at the situation he's in: EVA-01 is encased in a giant armored pod and Shinji can't synch with it anymore, Evas 02 and 08 are in their armored cage, probably heavily guarded when not in use, Shinji is a scrawny 14 years old boy in a giant battleship whose layout he doesn't know, full of armed guards and other means of defense (automated doors, cameras...), how the freaking hell did they thought that Shinji could get in an Eva if he suddenly decided to?

Just tell him why he can't pilot anymore ("you're an Impact Trigger and can destroy the world if you lose control over your emotions, which tends to happen often with you") and he'll obey without problems! (and before you said it, yes, they were probably gonna say it to him had Mark.09 not attacked)
So why all these extreme measures as if he was Solid Snake or Chuck Norris, did they thought that he could had the same powers than Kaworu?
Last edited by ElMariachi on Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Rosenakahara
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 3319
Joined: May 20, 2014
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rosenakahara » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:32 am

^ we are probably missing something from the 14 year gap that made them take these measures, remember they were making a massive fuss over whether this was or was not truly the real Shinji.
"She had better march back here and try again! I only send people off on my terms! ...Or in a casket."
I don't need a scabbard to sheathe my mind
What is going on is a concerted effort from anti-progressives to silence anyone who disagrees with them.-Bagheera 2016
The Twelve Kingdoms discussion thread

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6899
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:09 am

^
Well the probable answer was in my question now that I think about it: I think that Misat and co. had to deal with Kaworu wrecking havoc in their base 14 years ago, like in episode 24 with hijacked Evas, electronic security bypassed and flying thanks to AT Field Hax, except that this time there wasn't a Rei with Lilith's soul at full power to stop him, so he must had wrecked some serious havoc.
Kaworu said thatthe DSS Choker was originally designed for him after all, WILLE probably developed the DSS Choker either to contain him after they somehow managed to stop him, or later during the war for the case that they capture him.

So maybe they feared that after staying 14 years fused with an awakened Evangelion, the person in front of him might had developed the same kind of powers, and could not even be Shinji in the first place, so they put him the DSS Choker in case that hypothesis was right. That's the only reason I could fathom explaining why they used such an overkill mean of control on Shinji.
Maybe after that they thought that since Shinji will have to wear it for a long time, they could kill two birds with one stone decided to also make it his punishment for what he did 14 years ago. (and maybe also to sweeten the pill for Shinji, who will understandingly not be happy at the prospect to have a bomb strapped around his neck)

That would also mean that in FINAL they won't put another DSS Choker on Shinji, since it's clear by now that he's not an Angel and neo-NERV doesn't need him to awake an Evangelion anymore.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Ray
Banned
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 6638
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:15 am

I certainly hope not, I hated that ugly thing SO MUCH!
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Signer
Adam
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 62
Joined: May 14, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Signer » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:45 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:That's something I never understood thought: why did they thought that he would get inside an Eva again, or that he would even be able to get in an Eva again?
Look at the situation he's in: EVA-01 is encased in a giant armored pod and Shinji can't synch with it anymore, Evas 02 and 08 are in their armored cage, probably heavily guarded when not in use, Shinji is a scrawny 14 years old boy in a giant battleship whose layout he doesn't know, full of armed guards and other means of defense (automated doors, cameras...), how the freaking hell did they thought that Shinji could get in an Eva if he suddenly decided to?

Just tell him why he can't pilot anymore ("you're an Impact Trigger and can destroy the world if you lose control over your emotions, which tends to happen often with you") and he'll obey without problems! (and before you said it, yes, they were probably gonna say it to him had Mark.09 not attacked)
So why all these extreme measures as if he was Solid Snake or Chuck Norris, did they thought that he could had the same powers than Kaworu?

The way he got in an Eva is not that unimaginable - even if he doesn't have any superpowers, Neo-Nerv have enough power to make him trigger impact.
Where is the center of the multiverse?
I'm the center of the multiverse.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6899
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:03 am

View Original PostSigner wrote:The way he got in an Eva is not that unimaginable - even if he doesn't have any superpowers, Neo-Nerv have enough power to make him trigger impact.

Except that when they put the DSS Choker on him, they didn't know that neo-NERV and SEELE were interested in Shinji: for WILLE, they were after EVA-01, it took them completely by surprise when it was revealed that Mark.09 (and retrospectively the NS) was instead here to snatch away Shinji.

So if they didn't imagined that neo-NERV would try to capture Shinji, then why did they used the DSS Choker?
That's why the only explanation I could find is that WILLE feared that Shinji was a Kaworu bis.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Signer
Adam
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 62
Joined: May 14, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Signer » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:16 am

When the purpose of Mark.09's assault became obvious, Ritsuko immediately thought of a reason for neo-NERV to want Shinji - it indicates that neo-NERV's interest in Shinji wasn't such a surprise. If WILLE know about impact-triggers and know that Shinji triggered impact, it would be strange for them not to think about possible way for neo-NERV to use Shinji.
Where is the center of the multiverse?
I'm the center of the multiverse.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6899
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:22 am

^
They knew that Shinji was an Impact Trigger indeed, but they didn't know that neo-NERV would need an Impact Trigger, since an awakened Evangelion already exists (EVA-01) and WILLE didn't know that neo-NERV had an ADAM to as an Evangelion needing to be awakened (EVA-13).

So from their point of view, neo-NERV didn't had any reasons to try to capture Shinji.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 10125
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:32 am

View Original PostSigner wrote:When the purpose of Mark.09's assault became obvious, Ritsuko immediately thought of a reason for neo-NERV to want Shinji - it indicates that neo-NERV's interest in Shinji wasn't such a surprise. If WILLE know about impact-triggers and know that Shinji triggered impact, it would be strange for them not to think about possible way for neo-NERV to use Shinji.

Actually, the fact that Ritsuko, the token scientist, was only able to put the pieces together at that point indicates that Wille was rather ignorant of Shinji's potential usefulness to Neo-Nerv until they actually showed an interest, and that's why they were surprised when the Mark 09 targeted him instead of Unit-01. Wille was prepared for another fight with Neo-Nerv, but they thought that fight would be over the god-like Eva powering their ship and not the reprehensible little shit that had been piloting it and that had only appeared to them as a side-effect result.
- Sachi

I host the discord server for the EvaGeeks forums. Join us! https://discord.gg/m7PXjf8PdP

Signer
Adam
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 62
Joined: May 14, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Signer » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:22 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
They knew that Shinji was an Impact Trigger indeed, but they didn't know that neo-NERV would need an Impact Trigger, since an awakened Evangelion already exists (EVA-01) and WILLE didn't know that neo-NERV had an ADAM to as an Evangelion needing to be awakened (EVA-13).

So from their point of view, neo-NERV didn't had any reasons to try to capture Shinji.

WILLE also didn't know that neo-NERV hadn't any means to create something awakenable. And if they can create NS then it is entirely possible for them to create a new Evangelion - WILLE maybe just didn't know how exactly it all will be done. Even if there is already an awakened Evangelion, there is no reason to give neo-NERV an alternative - hence DSS choker. So...

View Original PostSachi wrote:Actually, the fact that Ritsuko, the token scientist, was only able to put the pieces together at that point indicates that Wille was rather ignorant of Shinji's potential usefulness to Neo-Nerv until they actually showed an interest, and that's why they were surprised when the Mark 09 targeted him instead of Unit-01. Wille was prepared for another fight with Neo-Nerv, but they thought that fight would be over the god-like Eva powering their ship and not the reprehensible little shit that had been piloting it and that had only appeared to them as a side-effect result.

...why do you think, that Ritsuko didn't consider such scenario before it actually happened? Mark.09's actions only confirmed what WILLE thought to be probable enough to warrant some insurance.

On-topic: even Asuka tells Misato to care less about Shinji, because they have bigger problems. Or at least it is how her sarcastic "Right, Colonel Katsuragi?" sounds to me, sometimes.
Where is the center of the multiverse?
I'm the center of the multiverse.

xanderkh
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby xanderkh » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:34 am

View Original PostSigner wrote:
On-topic: even Asuka tells Misato to care less about Shinji, because they have bigger problems. Or at least it is how her sarcastic "Right, Colonel Katsuragi?" sounds to me, sometimes.


And, I hate to say this, but she's right. Right now, they have a HELL of a lot more important things to deal , LIKE THE SURVIVAL OF HUMANITY, than a one-on-one side chat with an ignorant 14-year old brat. That's why Sakura was sent in Misato's stead, because right now, they have a world to save instead of the frail feelings of Shinji. Harsh, yes. But that's how the world works at the moment, and they have a planet they NEED to save instead of having to butter up to his ignorance. When the dust clears, THEN they can deal with him. But right now, he needs to stay in his cell, like a GOOD LITTLE BOY. He's gonna behave like a brat in this new world, then he's gonna be treated like a brat.

I know it sounds harsh, but I'm just playing "devil's advocate" here to show their point of view. It could've been handled a LOT better, but what's done is done. :sigh:
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6899
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:41 am

View Original PostSigner wrote:WILLE also didn't know that neo-NERV hadn't any means to create something awakenable. And if they can create NS then it is entirely possible for them to create a new Evangelion - WILLE maybe just didn't know how exactly it all will be done. Even if there is already an awakened Evangelion, there is no reason to give neo-NERV an alternative - hence DSS choker. So...

It's strongly implied that only very particular Evangelion can awake and trigger Impacts, or else SEELE wouldn't had taken the hassle to put an armor on the ADAM on the Moon or later to create EVA-13 from an ADAM, but would had used a regular Eva for the task.
And ADAMs don't grow on trees, Mari was completely taken aback by the revelation that EVA-13 was one of the ADAMs, that means that WILLE didn't thought that neo-NERV and SEELE still had the means to create an Evangelion able to start the HIP.

View Original PostSigner wrote:...why do you think, that Ritsuko didn't consider such scenario before it actually happened?

Because she sounded as taken completely by surprise that Mark.09 was here for Shinji and not EVA-01 as everyone else, also note that both times that the Wunder was attacked, Misato's only order was "protecting EVA-01 is our first priority", not a single word spared for Shinji. If they thought that neo-NERV could eventually be after Shinji, she would had mentioned something about him too.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

xanderkh
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby xanderkh » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:52 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Because she sounded as taken completely by surprise that Mark.09 was here for Shinji and not EVA-01 as everyone else, also note that both times that the Wunder was attacked, Misato's only order was "protecting EVA-01 is our first priority", not a single word spared for Shinji. If they thought that neo-NERV could eventually be after Shinji, she would had mentioned something about him too.


A thought just occurred to me ElMariachi, do we actually know that she DIDN'T spare a word for Shinji? The narrative is very skewed towards Shinji's point of view throughout the whole movie, to emphasize his isolation and alienation. Now, when it comes to dealing with stress, Shinji is quite the pessimist and always keen to feel sorry for himself.

Is it possible that perhaps the narrative withdrew such hints of such moments in order to make in seem like Shinji's narrow pessimistic point of view?
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6899
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:57 am

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:And, I hate to say this, but she's right. Right now, they have a HELL of a lot more important things to deal , LIKE THE SURVIVAL OF HUMANITY, than a one-on-one side chat with an ignorant 14-year old brat. That's why Sakura was sent in Misato's stead, because right now, they have a world to save instead of the frail feelings of Shinji. Harsh, yes. But that's how the world works at the moment, and they have a planet they NEED to save instead of having to butter up to his ignorance. When the dust clears, THEN they can deal with him. But right now, he needs to stay in his cell, like a GOOD LITTLE BOY. He's gonna behave like a brat in this new world, then he's gonna be treated like a brat.

I know it sounds harsh, but I'm just playing "devil's advocate" here to show their point of view. It could've been handled a LOT better, but what's done is done. :sigh:

Except that they did had the time to explain during the briefing: the Wunder was connected to the main engine and flying, the radars indicated that they were clean of enemies, so yes, there was some time to spare to explain things to Shinji, not their fault if Mark.09 have to hax ability letting it approach the Wunder undetected.
I think that if there absolutely wasn't time for Misato and Ritsuko to go personally participate in Shinji's briefing, then either they would had postponed said briefing (if Misato really wanted to be present during that briefing) or they simply wouldn't had participated and let Sakura to do it.

I interpreted Asuka's comment as a warning to not let him get too much into her head in the future (like "doting" on him by constantly keeping an eye on him or being often present for his future briefings, checkups or whatever) , because she has a job as the fleet commander.

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:A thought just occurred to me ElMariachi, do we actually know that she DIDN'T spare a word for Shinji? The narrative is very skewed towards Shinji's point of view throughout the whole movie, to emphasize his isolation and alienation. Now, when it comes to dealing with stress, Shinji is quite the pessimist and always keen to feel sorry for himself.

Is it possible that perhaps the narrative withdrew such hints of such moments in order to make in seem like Shinji's narrow pessimistic point of view?

Well, we saw her bark her orders both times (in the Command Bridge and at the phone in the interrogation room), and no one concerned Shinji.
Anno never used the trick of skewered perceptions to withdraw some comments, so I don't see why he would suddenly start using that trick.
EVA-01 was the priority and they didn't considered Shinji as a vital asset to be protected against neo-NERV's attack, and that was their big mistake, plain and simple.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Signer
Adam
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 62
Joined: May 14, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Signer » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:40 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:It's strongly implied that only very particular Evangelion can awake and trigger Impacts, or else SEELE wouldn't had taken the hassle to put an armor on the ADAM on the Moon or later to create EVA-13 from an ADAM, but would had used a regular Eva for the task.
And ADAMs don't grow on trees, Mari was completely taken aback by the revelation that EVA-13 was one of the ADAMs, that means that WILLE didn't thought that neo-NERV and SEELE still had the means to create an Evangelion able to start the HIP.

And it still not impossible that neo-NERV would think of something - it is not that easy to get EVA-01 from WILLE either and they know that. And if there is only 4 Adams and WILLE don't know where all 4 are located, it is too risky to discard the possibility that neo-NERV have some Adams. About Mari: WILLE already know that neo-NERV plan to awaken something, because they took Shinji to act as a trigger. So Mari's surprise (which she showed only when it turned out that EVA-13 doesn't have an AT field but not when she mentioned Adams) could mean either that they didn't expect to deal with awakening so soon or missing AT field doesn't imply Adams or awakening association or awakening can be done without any Adams.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Because she sounded as taken completely by surprise that Mark.09 was here for Shinji and not EVA-01 as everyone else

And everyone else were simply shocked too - by sudden appearance of a big hole in the wall and giant robot in it. Also, they probably didn't expect Rei's telepathy and EVA-00' look. But when Ritsuko finally says something in this scene, the way she sounds is influenced mainly by her aim to persuade Misato, who doesn't do what she is supposed to do.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:also note that both times that the Wunder was attacked, Misato's only order was "protecting EVA-01 is our first priority", not a single word spared for Shinji. If they thought that neo-NERV could eventually be after Shinji, she would had mentioned something about him too.

Protecting EVA-01 was their first priority - with working Wunder they can [s]kill[/s] get Shinji back, but without it there isn't much they can do even if neo-NERV didn't get necessary trigger. But it doesn't mean Shinji wasn't their second priority - Sakura was prepared to bring him to save place just before he called Rei. And what else they could have done? Yes, walls of that room could be thicker, but lead scientist and captain also were there so its not low priority point anyway. There is no reason to spend a lot of human resources to guard one boy - enemy operates using things like NS. So... If only there was some way to keep Shinji from neo-NERV, which would work even if WILLE lose a fight... Not killing him - Misato doesn't want to kill him and he is special in many useful ways - but something...
View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Well, we saw her bark her orders both times (in the Command Bridge and at the phone in the interrogation room), and no one concerned Shinji.
Anno never used the trick of skewered perceptions to withdraw some comments, so I don't see why he would suddenly start using that trick.
EVA-01 was the priority and they didn't considered Shinji as a vital asset to be protected against neo-NERV's attack, and that was their big mistake, plain and simple.

So, they "protected" their asset and if there was a mistake it was that they didn't use that protection even when they definitely knew what it would lead to. But I'd rather say that Misato had other things to protect.
Where is the center of the multiverse?
I'm the center of the multiverse.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6899
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:13 pm

View Original PostSigner wrote:And it still not impossible that neo-NERV would think of something - it is not that easy to get EVA-01 from WILLE either and they know that. And if there is only 4 Adams and WILLE don't know where all 4 are located, it is too risky to discard the possibility that neo-NERV have some Adams.

Yes, they came to that conclusion... when Mark.09 took away Shinji instead of EVA-01. The fact that they need a Trigger means that they have something to Awake that isn't EVA-01, but before that for me they thought that neo-NERV was behind EVA-01 and never imagined that they could have an interest on Shinji.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Lennik
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 194
Joined: Apr 18, 2013
Location: USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lennik » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:06 am

ElMariachi wrote:Yes, they came to that conclusion... when Mark.09 took away Shinji instead of EVA-01. They fact that they need a Trigger means that they have something to Awake that isn't EVA-01, but before that for me they thought that neo-NERV was behind EVA-01 and never imagined that they could have an interest on Shinji.


It still would have made more sense to take both possibilities into consideration. He's been a fairly important piece in Gendo's plans for a while, and they knew that.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6899
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:56 am

^
Yes, but his role in Gendo's plan was already fulfilled 14 years ago: his only role in Gendo's plan was to give him an awakened Eva, and he did it, so it stands to reason to thing that neo-NERV will try to capture said awakened Eva, crippling WILLE in the process and making them unable to attack their HQ, than take away a Trigger that's useless without an Eva to awake or an already awakened Eva.

Besides, neo-NERV already have an Impact Trigger working for them: Kaworu. So from WILLE's point of view, if neo-NERV/SEELE had an Eva that could be awakened, they would had done it with Kaworu, no need to snatch Shinji away, which is why WILLE didn't considered him as a prime target of neo-NERV.

Of course, WILLE couldn't know that neo-NERV created a special Eva with a dual entry plug system to break Lilith's seal, which if you look at it is really the only reason Shinji was needed: sure he also serves as a backup Impact Trigger in case something happens to Kaworu during Fourth Impact, but that's an extra, Kaworu could had triggered the HIP alone (wasn't that what SEELE planned to do before the time skip?), in the end the only thing SEELE really needed was another pilot to synchronize with Kaworu to break the seal, and maybe with a "normal" soul to wield the second spear if this time SEELE really needed two of them (which would explain why an Ayanami Type wasn't used since they can synchronize but can't wield a spear, that or Kaworu refused to work with anyone but Shinji), Shinji being an Impact Trigger was just a nice bonus as an added security that Fourth Impact won't be stopped.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Ray
Banned
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 6638
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:05 am

What I want to know is, how will she feel towards him at the Start of Final?
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

ChaddyManPrime
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 2923
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
Location: Peoria, AZ
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:07 am

^
Who is "She"?
"Look at Me!, I'm Mr. MeeSeeks!" - Mr. MeeSeeks

You know nothing, Jon Snow - Chuckman


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests