[speculation] What if the timeskip never occurred

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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[speculation] What if the timeskip never occurred

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Postby Dataprime » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:59 pm

I been thinking about this question for a while now:
What if the 14 year time skip never occurred?
What would the story of 3.0 look like?


Some things to consider:

How would this change affect the characters?
What is Nerv's role now in this new 'alternate timeline'?
How would this ultimately change the plot of Final?

This means no eyepatch for Asuka

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Postby Ray » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:21 pm

Well. . . first and foremost, Shinji would have at least been there to defend himself, instead of being doomed to bear the Stigma of 'Impact Boy Ikari' after the fact, when its been cemented into the public consciousness.

Also, there wouldn't be the whole awkward age difference between Asuka and Shinji.
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Re: [speculation] What if the timeskip never occurred

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Postby Sachi » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:21 pm

View Original PostDataprime wrote:This means no eyepatch for Asuka

Why's that? She lost her eye in the Bardiel incident in 2.22.
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Re: [speculation] What if the timeskip never occurred

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Postby Na7e » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:36 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:Why's that? She lost her eye in the Bardiel incident in 2.22.


But, she didn't lose an eye.

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Postby Dima » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:41 pm

Then we would see the scenes that where in the preview and the film would follow a normal flow. How come there is an alternate universe if there is no a timeskip and no eyepatch for Asuka since this happened 2.0? I don't think i am following you here. The things you suggest could happen only i there was an alternate outcome in 2.0
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Postby TheFriskyIan » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:00 pm

We would probably see what was at the end of 2.0 in the Next Time Preview, and actually have a way better story than what we have now. Honestly, I don't know what caused Khara to shift gears so drastically with 3.0, but any story they put together after the ending of 2.0 would have been far enough from NGE so why bother with one that will leave people asking questions about plot holes?
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Postby airman4 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:22 pm

View Original PostDima wrote:Then we would see the scenes that where in the preview and the film would follow a normal flow. How come there is an alternate universe if there is no a timeskip and no eyepatch for Asuka since this happened 2.0? I don't think i am following you here. The things you suggest could happen only i there was an alternate outcome in 2.0


Dima know his shit

I mean

14 years is not an action or an event lol , it's just a choice of the author , that's it
Basically it would have been the same lol , just we would knew all about the mark 6 descending to central dogma , gendo , the split of Misato/ritsuko , we would knew about Toji , nana deaths and other(Kaji probably dead )

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They skip for a reason wich will probably explained in Final.
I dont see why 3.33 have a bad story for being Unusual , on the contrary...
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:24 pm

I agree: I understand the urge to make this different from the TV series, and to take Evangelion in a completely new direction, but considering that they ended 2.0 with a Near Third Impact...well, they already deviated. That was it, they had completely derailed by then.

The time-skip was kind of unnecessary, but that's not really the focus of the thread...sorry, just bitter.

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Re: [speculation] What if the timeskip never occurred

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Postby Sachi » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:08 pm

View Original PostNa7e wrote:But, she didn't lose an eye.

I suppose I should clarify since it's unclear either way; the event that caused Asuka to begin wearing an eye patch occurred in 2.22, so there's no reason she would not have one even if the timeskip never happened. :P She may not have necessarily lost her eye in the Bardiel incident, but she still would be wearing an eye patch either way as a result of it.
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:22 pm

@ OP : To clarify, your want to speculate about what would had happened had at least Shinji be salvaged just after the end of 2.0 (or at least relatively soon after, like one month later like it was the case in NGE), that's right?
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Postby Dataprime » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:26 pm

^ That's correct
sorry if I confused anyone.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:39 pm

Probably Shinji would be taken out of Unit 01 at the half hour mark & the film would have been an adaptation of Episodes 20-24 with about 50% new material vs. 50% old material.


Personally I prefer the massive shake up that was 3.0. For the first time during this whole Rebuild saga I can't sit around & predict which moments from NGE would be adapted with new animation.

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Postby WunderBah » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:50 pm

We'd basically have what the original 3.0 preview suggested as a 90+ minute film, while speculating on what FINAL could turn out to be just like we are now.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:19 pm

Well, the actual 3I probably wouldn't have happened and there would have been a lot less Shinji hatred. People would have likely explained to him what happened.

Cue Evangelion goodness and :|| speculah.

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Postby robersora » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:29 am

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:We would probably see what was at the end of 2.0 in the Next Time Preview, and actually have a way better story than what we have now. Honestly, I don't know what caused Khara to shift gears so drastically with 3.0, but any story they put together after the ending of 2.0 would have been far enough from NGE so why bother with one that will leave people asking questions about plot holes?


Somewhere I've read that Anno stated the reason for drastically changing the story was the incident on March 11 2011. Up until that point he had other plans, but after seeing all the devastation he wanted to use this feeling of despair for Eva or something.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:31 am

^
That's fan speculation, Anno didn't said anything about the drastic change of setting in Q and if it was planned since the beginning or not yet. In a post-3.0 interview, Kaworu's VA hinted that Anno had planned the brutal time skip since the beginning, and only told a select few.

It's Ogata (Shinji's VA) who 'channeled' the March 11 earthquake for her rendition of Shinji, imagining how it would be if she learned that the earthquake was her fault.
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Postby tzigi » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:08 am

Having seen the topic on the list I thought: "oh, nice, someone has found evidence that there was no timeskip between Ha and Q". Sadly it's only a question on the meta level...

So, what would happen if Q was to take place a month or a bit more after Ha? It would not be so powerful as it is now. I've just finished showing NME to my husband (he has watched NGE twice before that). He loved the first two movies and just couldn't wait to watch the third one. As we turned on Q, I concentrated on watching his face instead of the movie. And I have to say that he was shocked and horrified - pretty much like Shinji is in the movie. If there was no timeskip, then NME would not have the same emotional impact it has now.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:43 am

View Original Posttzigi wrote:As we turned on Q, I concentrated on watching his face instead of the movie. And I have to say that he was shocked and horrified -

It's delicious isn't it? :evillaugh:

More seriously, how the story could evolve had Shinji been retrieved very soon after 2.0 depends on what exactly ravaged the Tokyo-3 region (and maybe the world), if it was indeed N3I like Kaworu said, then Shinji would be in a shitty situation nonetheless, if it was another event that triggered a proper Third Impact (more than probably triggered by the 12th Angel), then we'll have to think of what kind of "want of a nail" consequences Shinji's presence could bring.
Maybe the proper Third Impact would had been prevented, maybe Kaworu successfully triggers Instrumentality because that's what he thought would be Shinji's happiness, maybe Third Imapct happens nonetheless but WILLE gains an extra-pilot and we have a 28 years-old in a 14 years-old body Shinji piloting EVA-07/10/11/12 alongside Mari and Asuka and married to the later for 10 years! :lol:
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Postby Jornophelanthas » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:48 am

IF Shinji had been retrieved after a mere month, instead of 14 years,

THEN all we would have seen in Rebuild 3.0 would just be another variation of NGE episodes 21-24 (and possibly the first part of EoE). In other words, exactly what Rebuild 2.0 was for NGE episodes 7-20.

---

In case you haven't noticed, the deviations from the original story grow exponentially with each Rebuild movie, and I am quite certain that this is intentional:

- Rebuild 1.0 follows NGE episodes 1-6 very closely, with only a few minor hints at differences (e.g. Misato taking Shinji to see Lilith, Kaworu on the moon).

- Rebuild 2.0 still parallels NGE episodes 7-20, but shakes things up significantly by adding new events and twists (e.g. Mari Makinami Illustrious, Asuka's new name, Rei developing more human emotion than ever before, track 27 on the music player, Asuka piloting Unit-03 instead of Toji, Rei actually somehow being saved by Shinji).

- Rebuild 3.0 leaves the NGE plotline altogether with an all-new story, although many parallels to NGE and EOE can still be found (e.g. Asuka hating Shinji for doing something horrible to her, the new Rei's behaviour showing similar coldness and discontinuity from the earlier Rei, Fuyutsuki telling secrets from the past in a dark room, Gendo betraying SEELE, Shinji battling Unit-02 in Terminal Dogma, Kaworu choosing to die for Shinji in a way that leaves Shinji traumatized.)

- It may be expected that Rebuild FINAL will diverge even further, leaving no parallels to NGE/EoE except the occoasional camera shot, or an event being a polar opposite of a similar event in NGE/EoE.

---

Final [s]remark[/s] rant:

I consider Rebuild of Evangelion to be a work of art (as I consider NGE to be a work of art as well). Viewers being shocked by Rebuild 3.0 and reacting emotionally is not a sign that it is a bad work of art, as art is frequently intended to create shock and evoke emotion. Even if those emotions can be negative, they still indicate an emotional bond to the movie.

That is the difference between art and entertainment. While entertainment is only meant to evoke mild and pleasant emotions in the audience, art can use any and all means to evoke any reaction in its audience (up to and including vehement rejection). Some art can also be entertainment, but certainly not all art should be like that.

Rebuild of Evangelion has enough entertainment value to still attract a similar audience as the original NGE series, but it also has a deeper impact on those viewers who are also familiar with Neon Genesis Evangelion and End of Evangelion.
Therefore, if you only want more of the same (e.g. no time skip), you will be disappointed. "More of the same" is not and never has been the point of Rebuild of Evangelion. In fact "more of the same" has never been the point of Neon Genesis Evangelion either, because it subverted the super-robot-warrior genre that was popular at the time. In effect, NGE holds up a mirror to that genre.
Rebuild of Evangelion is a subversion of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Instead of holding up a mirror to the genre that spawned it, it now holds up a mirror to the Evangelion genre that it created. Because if it didn't, it wouldn't be Evangelion.

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Postby tzigi » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:31 am

View Original PostJornophelanthas wrote:IF Shinji had been retrieved after a mere month, instead of 14 years,

THEN all we would have seen in Rebuild 3.0 would just be another variation of NGE episodes 21-24 (and possibly the first part of EoE).

And isn't it now (at least in the broad narrative scheme)? We get (in the chronological order of NGE not Q):
- an infodump about the past (especially Yui) courtesy of Fuyutsuki -> episode 21
- a space-dwelling, angel-like (Blood Type Blue) entity that hurts Asuka using a lightbeam (Mk. 04B) -> episode 22
- an angel fusing with an Eva (and possibly trying to fuse with a second one) and being associated with a child (respectively "angel of the womb" and the twelfth angel becoming a giant foetus) -> episode 23
- Kaworu meeting Shinji, earning his trust and getting himself killed thus making Shinji utterly miserable -> episode 24

About the first part of EoE I wouldn't be so sure but the results of a battle in Terminal Dogma (the broken aircraft and so on) make it seem like at least a similar military attack has taken place and the presence of FOIs implies some kind of Instrumentality.
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