The soul in Evangelion 13

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

Moderators: Rebuild/OT Moderators, Board Staff

Nuclear Lunchbox
Agent Ahegao
Agent Ahegao
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 10212
Joined: Dec 13, 2012
Location: 可塑の椅子

The soul in Evangelion 13

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:34 pm

Making a separate thread for this.
View Original Postpwhodges wrote:An uncalled-for thought has just arrived - what if the reason for the dual plug system in Eva-13 is that it has no resident soul, so that's a way to get two souls in there for operation.

It's an interesting question, particularly considering that it hasn't occurred to us before.

weeminator24
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 34
Joined: Nov 23, 2012
Location: United States
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby weeminator24 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:42 pm

I was under the impression that Eva-13 was one of the Adams, and thus didn't need a dominant soul...
A.K.A. TheCicadaMan

Monk Ed
Sunshine Administrator
Sunshine Administrator
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8599
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Location: Chicagoland area
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Monk Ed » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:56 pm

What evidence is there that any Evangelion actually needs a resident soul in this version? Even the AT Field could be just the pilot's. And that's assuming that AT Fields in Rebuild are even the same phenomenon (a projection of the soul) as the same of NGE.
System Administrator
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

UrsusArctos
The Beginning and the End
The Beginning and the End
User avatar
Posts: 8857
Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Location: Visiting forum at random

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby UrsusArctos » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:41 am

Yui is explicitly confirmed to be in Eva-01 as the control system. Not the resident soul, but the control system. So an Eva probably doesn't need a resident soul at all, it just needs a core that's configured to suit its pilot.
Not knowing that Monk is bi is like not knowing the Pope is Catholic - ZapX
You're either really bad at interpreting jokes or really good at pretending you are and I have no idea which.-Monk Ed
WAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!(<-link to lunacy)...Taste me, if you can bear it. (Warning: Language NSFW)
The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster

weeminator24
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 34
Joined: Nov 23, 2012
Location: United States
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby weeminator24 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:58 am

There is also a shot of them replacing the core of Unit 02 while Mari is changing into her new plugsuit in 2.22, suggesting that one core was Asuka's, and the new one is suited for Mari..
A.K.A. TheCicadaMan

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 74
Posts: 10556
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:45 am

None the less, I'd like to find some decent kind of reason for the dual system, as it seems to me to be the most contrived aspect of the whole NME scenario, and thus somewhat unsatisfying.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Relaxing... (details); Past avatars.
Can't wait for 3.0+1.0? - try Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Jimbob
Adam
Age: 34
Posts: 80
Joined: Jul 16, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jimbob » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:15 am

Honestly it could just be for ease of operation. One pilot to move the Eva while the other controls the drone weapons. Shinji even implies he's having trouble with Asuka because Kaworu wasn't assisting in combat.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6896
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:58 am

View Original Postweeminator24 wrote:There is also a shot of them replacing the core of Unit 02 while Mari is changing into her new plugsuit in 2.22, suggesting that one core was Asuka's, and the new one is suited for Mari..

The dialog talked about reconfiguring the core for Mari, the core used is the exact same than when Asuka pilots(you can even see it in an armored round container suspended above EVA-02 when it's being put in the IPEA vault), only the settings are changed.


View Original Postpwhodges wrote:None the less, I'd like to find some decent kind of reason for the dual system, as it seems to me to be the most contrived aspect of the whole NME scenario, and thus somewhat unsatisfying.

It had two purposes :

1/ breaking the seal to Lilith's Chamber, as apparently two pilot synchronizing in the same Eva produce an AT Field(or anti-AT field, it's not clear) strong enough to break it.
Although then that raise the question of how Mari and Asuka could already be there waiting in ambush, maybe there are other entrances that opened during the passing 14 years due to damages, but EVA-13 took the elevator because it was more confy and it could open the seal, who knows...

2/ more importantly, to use the two spears to do whatever the hell Kaworu planned to do with the LoL + LoC. He explicitly said that two souls are needed to wield two spears, implying that a spear needs a soul to activate it's capacities, but that one soul can only active one spear at a time. So to use the two spears at the same time, a dual-sytem Evangelion was needed.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Stratomeister
Adam
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 73
Joined: Dec 01, 2013
Location: Can-Uh-Duh
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Stratomeister » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:54 pm

If Evangelions in NTE do in fact still need a soul to operate, then it is a likely explanation, or at least another purpose for the double entry system.

Making a few assumptions, that Unit-13 was made from Adam, or is one of the Adams, and that Kaworu still presents the same ability to synch with any Evangelion made from Adam, it's reasonable to believe that he acted as the resident soul in this instance, to give the Evangelion life, so to speak.
"What the hell is this?" - Shinji Ikari

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:27 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:None the less, I'd like to find some decent kind of reason for the dual system, as it seems to me to be the most contrived aspect of the whole NME scenario, and thus somewhat unsatisfying.


The dual core system is needed to manipulate the two different creation engines needed to actualize the Adams' full potential as progenitor entities. The two sets of arms are visual elements of this system, but only in an incidental sense; they're mainly there to hold and manipulate the actual instruments of creation (the Spears) and as such are largely a matter of convenience. Since the different engines use different control systems a binary approach is needed to keep them under control, hence the dual core system.

Sorry if that explanation is a bit smelly, I just pulled it out of my ass whole cloth. But c'mon, two Spears, Kaworu's impression that they could remake the world, it makes sense.

And Ursus is right: resident souls have not been mentioned in the NTE even once. Yui is Unit 01's control system, but we still aren't clear on whether or not her soul is in Unit 01. Same with Poka-Rei. If not for Kaworu's comment re: ReiQ we might not even have reason to believe souls exist in the NTE.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 74
Posts: 10556
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:03 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Yui is Unit 01's control system, but we still aren't clear on whether or not her soul is in Unit 01. Same with Poka-Rei.

Fuyu says that Yui and Rei are in Eva-01. Whether one uses the word "soul" or not is probably unimportant at that point, because what else would define their identity in the absence of their original bodies? Yui may not be a "resident soul" in the NGE sense; but again, what does her identity (soul or whatever) being a "control system" really mean? Is it necessarily any different, or has the wording just been changed for the movies to make them more accessible, while the concepts stay basically the same?
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Relaxing... (details); Past avatars.
Can't wait for 3.0+1.0? - try Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Stratomeister
Adam
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 73
Joined: Dec 01, 2013
Location: Can-Uh-Duh
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Stratomeister » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:56 pm

I believe that the terms "resident soul" and "control system" mean the same thing. It's obvious that the Evangelions still require a soul in some sense of the word in order to operate, without a soul, the Eva's are just empty vessels.

Now, who's soul is required to operate an Eva is a little more liberal in NTE, what with the notion of it having to be the pilot's mother tossed out the window
Last edited by Stratomeister on Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
"What the hell is this?" - Shinji Ikari

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:09 pm

View Original PostStratomeister wrote:I believe that the terms "resident soul" and "control system" mean the same thing. It's obvious that the Evangelions still require a soul in some sense of the word in order to operate, without a soul, the Eva's are just empty vessels.


I don't see how that's obvious at all. Why can't they just be giant cyborgs operated like any other robot? And why change the term to begin with if it's supposed to be the same thing?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 8902
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:13 pm

They definitely tossed the resident soul thing in Rebuild. If there are resident souls, either Asuka didn't need to have a relationship to the one in Bardiel OR Kyoko's soul is dead and somebody else is in Unit 02. The core in Mari's original Eva was also destroyed- everything points to all the other Evas being mere machines while Unit 01 is unique this time around.

Of course, as we all know very well, there is no Kyoko because Asuka and Mari are also clones.
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

Stratomeister
Adam
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 73
Joined: Dec 01, 2013
Location: Can-Uh-Duh
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Stratomeister » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:16 pm

Okay, I'll admit that my use of the word "obvious" was pretty hyperbolic, but why else would Yui be trapped inside Unit-01 unless her soul was still require in order for the Evangelion to be functional?

It was also shown the preview to 3.0 that Unit-08 was "brought to life", and in what sense could that be used if it didn't mean being given a soul of it's own?

If there are resident souls, either Asuka didn't need to have a relationship to the one in Bardiel OR Kyoko's soul is dead and somebody else is in Unit 02

Yeah, there's been no evidence in NTE to support the claim that the resident soul has to the the pilots mother. While I do believe there must be a soul present in the Eva in order for it to operate, that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be that of the pilot's mother, or even a human soul for that matter.
Last edited by Stratomeister on Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
"What the hell is this?" - Shinji Ikari

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 8902
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:25 pm

View Original PostStratomeister wrote:Okay, I'll admit that my use of the word "obvious" was pretty hyperbolic, but why else would Yui be trapped inside Unit-01 unless her soul was still require in order for the Evangelion to be functional?

It was also shown the preview to 3.0 that Unit-8 was "brought to life", and in what sense could that be used if it didn't mean being given a soul of it's own?


Yeah, there's been no evidence in NTE to support the claim that the resident soul has to the the pilots mother. While I do believe there must be a soul present in the Eva in order for it to operate, that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be that of the pilot's mother, or even a human soul for that matter.


If the resident soul doesn't have to be the pilot's mother, what's the point of having them at all, and if there's no relationship between the pilot and the soul, what indication is there that they exist? It wasn't just thrown into NGE, it's there for a narrative and thematic purpose.

Rebuild stripped a lot of stuff out for streamlining. It appears to ignore the resident soul concept for the sake of convenience to the action, so we can safely assume that it probably doesn't apply.

All Yui's presence in Unit-01 appears to enhance it, rather than being strictly necessary for operations. The Evas in Rebuild are just cool machines.
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

Chroma
Sachiel
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 224
Joined: Aug 08, 2011
Location: Present Day...Present Time! HAHAHA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chroma » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:26 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I don't see how that's obvious at all. Why can't they just be giant cyborgs operated like any other robot? And why change the term to begin with if it's supposed to be the same thing?


Because they aren't just giant cyborgs - they (or, at least Unit-01 in NTE) are "artificial humans" and created from the genes/body of Adam/Lilith. This isn't Gundam, the EVAs are much more living-creatures-restrained than metal machines.
Insignificance is bliss

Stratomeister
Adam
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 73
Joined: Dec 01, 2013
Location: Can-Uh-Duh
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Stratomeister » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:21 am

It's obvious (used in proper context this time) that the relationship between pilot and Evangelion is not the same as it was in NGE, the only direct confirmation that we have regarding the presence of a soul is that of Yui's in Unit-01. However, both Unit-01 and Unit-00 still exhibit strange behaviour, the likes of which were seen in NGE.

Unit-01 goes berserk while fighting Sachiel, and Unit-00 loses control during the activation test. During both of these instances, the pilot was not in command of their Evangelion.

Now, I'm not one to say that Unit-01 isn't a special case, and that it being the only mother-son connection confirmation we have, the behaviour could be attributed to that, but what about Unit-00? If it didn't have a resident soul of some sort, what caused it to go out of control during the activation test?

As a side note that should probably not be taken too seriously, if the Evangelions no longer contain the soul of the pilot's mother, then why do we still need 14 year old children manning these death machines?
"What the hell is this?" - Shinji Ikari

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 6896
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:22 am

^
Evas are savage beasts : leave them unrestrained and they'll go in a rampage. Maybe they are their own soul, maybe they don't but in Rebuild not having one doesn't prevent you from existing(after all we didn't got the confirmation that AT Fields are projections of the soul, and Rei Q is suspected to lack one), or maybe the Evas develop their own soul while growing(which would imply that Rei Q developed one too during her creation)
Fuyutsuki's revelation that Rei is preserved alongside Yui inside EVA-01 imply that their soul are still inside. Maybe him calling Yui the "Control System" refers to how she can take control of the Eva when going berserk, although we don't know if she overwrote the resident Eva soul, merged with it, "lives" alongside it or if there weren't any soul to begin with and Yui became the first and only Evangelion with a soul.

But I don't think that EVA-13 had a soul or that Kaworu acted as the remote soul for it either : Mark.06 is all but stated to be one of the four ADAMs, and it was supposed to have been modified into an autonomous unit, meaning without Kaworu in it.
Also, wasn't the Dummy System supposed to be installed in all the Evangelions in Rebuild too?
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:06 am

View Original PostChroma wrote:Because they aren't just giant cyborgs - they (or, at least Unit-01 in NTE) are "artificial humans" and created from the genes/body of Adam/Lilith. This isn't Gundam, the EVAs are much more living-creatures-restrained than metal machines.


Actually, we don't know that this time around. We have no idea how they were made or how they work. That's the point!
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests