Logic's Insight - A Review of Rebuild of Evangelion 3.33

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Logic's Insight - A Review of Rebuild of Evangelion 3.33

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Postby Stillborn » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:43 am

[Split from the 3.0 Film Reaction thread. - Monk]

I found this review while checking DA

It's quite long and rather detailed. Maybe it'll spark some more discussion. It's in three parts.

http://thaeonblade.deviantart.com/art/Logic-s-Insight-Rebuild-of-Evangelion-3-33-1-3-430297360
http://thaeonblade.deviantart.com/art/Logic-s-Insight-Rebuild-of-Evangelion-3-33-2-3-430445282
http://thaeonblade.deviantart.com/art/Logic-s-Insight-Rebuild-of-Evangelion-3-33-3-3-431514153
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Postby Giji Shinka » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:12 am

View Original PostStillborn wrote:I found this review while checking DA

It's quite long and rather detailed. Maybe it'll spark some more discussion. It's in three parts.

http://thaeonblade.deviantart.com/art/Logic-s-Insight-Rebuild-of-Evangelion-3-33-1-3-430297360
http://thaeonblade.deviantart.com/art/Logic-s-Insight-Rebuild-of-Evangelion-3-33-2-3-430445282
http://thaeonblade.deviantart.com/art/Logic-s-Insight-Rebuild-of-Evangelion-3-33-3-3-431514153

Meh.
Missed the whole point of the film.
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Postby Stillborn » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:20 am

There are parts where I agree that the autor missed something, but there is also a lot where I agree with the author.
But I will not say it in detail what I think about it since I'm already on the black list... -____-

I kinda hoped someone would comment on his/her review and I would see where it would go.
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:22 am

Yeah, Giji Shinka resumed it perfectly.
His critic boils down to "It changed, so it sucks", while 3/4 of his questions were answered in the movie and forgetting that there is still one movie left to answer the remaining ones.

He hated it so much that he interprets the opposite of what some scenes are showing so it could fit with his view, like saying that Misato really wanted to kill Shinji but missed her chance thanks to Mark.09 getting out of range quickly enough, and that she never hesitated... while the movie showed her the thumb on the trigger and her hands shaking during a good ten seconds, unable to bring herself to kill him.

Although there are points were he's right, like Asuka's Idiot Ball moment in Lilith's Chamber for not trying to tell to Shinji why he shouldn't take out the spears, how it's extremely difficult to care for the rest of the cast due to the little exposition on their situation(the "is there even something to save anymore?" syndrome, although arguably that was the point of the movie) and how putting the whole blame on the situation on Shinji is simply BS seeing what we saw at the end of 2.0 and the informations Kaworu provided us, although even there it's only Kaworu who put the blame of the whole thing on him, WILLE never had the time to explain what they exactly blame him for, and it's possible that Kaworu himself was manipulating Shinji, here again there's still one movie left. Also, I agreed that Asuka and Misato putting him through a verbal(and maybe even physical) smackdown in FINALE would be wrong.

He didn't like the direction the Rebuild took and preferred that the story continued with the plot thread at the end of 2.0 and the preview? It's his right, and he has valid reasons to prefer it. But what discredit him is his long critic of the supposed flaws in narrative structure and unanswered question, when this chaotic structure was the whole point of the movie to make the audience as confused as Shinji and that the big wall of question were already answered for the most part.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Stillborn » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:38 am

The part about Misato is where I agree with you. Even I saw she hestitated (altough for different reasons).

Where I agree with him/her the most is the "darkness induced apathy".
That sums up perfectly my mood in waiting for FINAL. I barely care since I already know what to expect, just like I know that coyote from roadrunner will fail again. Q set up certain formula that make the final outcome predictible, and I can hardly care for it anymore.

So yeah, I agree with most of the author wrote. Not with everything but with majority.
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:50 am

^
Of course it's impossible to be sure until FINALE is released, but what if that "darkness induced apathy" was made on purpose, that Q was here to make us ask why we should care for the rest of the cast if everything is destroyed and there's nothing left to save... for FINALE to show us that the situation isn't that desperate, that many Lilin survived 3I and settled in awesome hi-tech giant cities from where everyone is working hard to build a future, the message being that there's always something to care for if you know where to look at.

Also, nothing tell us that Shinji will fail again in FINALE, even in EoE Shinji managed to ultimately thwart SEELE's plan for HIP and whoever want to come back can and will come back, meaning that all hope isn't lost. Besides unlike in EoE the good guys are numerous and equipped to fight against the bad guys, unlike EoE where mankind's hope resumed to Misato running here and there vs a whole JSSDF company, and Asuka vs 9 MP-Evas.

Just by curiosity, what reasons did you saw in Misato's hesitation to detonate the collar?
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Postby Jinroh » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:06 am

The problem with his review is that he hasn't done any analysis work like we did after release here. So plenty of his questions can be answered. For the other questions, what we need is something to fill up the gap between 2.22 and 3.33. And I'm still wondering if it will be addressed someday or not.

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Postby Stillborn » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:07 am

I mentioned those reasons long before in another thread.
Misato didn't wanted to become Gendo. It wasn't for BM-03's sake but for her own.

As for FINAL I expect to be shown how poor everyone in WILLE are, all because of Shinji, so anyone who felt sumpathetic towards him in Q will feel stupid and he will be hated even more by audience. Also that world will shit on Shinji until he starts to like it and be happy with it.
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:30 am

^
Well if she cares about not becoming a monster, that means that she still has some humanity left, which leave hope that she can still care for Shinji, no? Anyway let's wait what FINALE will tell us about Misato and Shinji's relationship.

But still I think that putting the blame of how everyone in WILLE could be(they have far too much resources and equipment to be on Mad Max or Hokuto no Ken levels of scavenging misery) on Shinji would be completely unrealistic, since not only Shinji was saving their asses when N3I happened and it was something unforeseen for everyone who wasn't SEELE or Gendo, but also Kaworu's account of what happened to Earth and what we saw at the end of 2.0 don't even adds up.
Having WILLE still putting the blame on Shinji will make him even more sympathetic to the audience, since everyone will know that making him responsible is pure BS.


View Original PostJinroh wrote:The problem with his review is that he hasn't done any analysis work like we did after release here. So plenty of his questions can be answered. For the other questions, what we need is something to fill up the gap between 2.22 and 3.33. And I'm still wondering if it will be addressed someday or not.

Oh I'm confident that they will be answered, if only a quick resume of the main points, too many things in Q and FINALE can only be understood under the light of what happened during those past 14 years.
Also, the demand among the audience is too big for Khara not capitalizing on it, so I wouldn't be surprised if a spin-off about WILLE's foundation and Misato, Asuka and co adventures during the time skip is released someday.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Jimbob » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:30 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:The problem with his review is that he hasn't done any analysis work like we did after release here. So plenty of his questions can be answered. For the other questions, what we need is something to fill up the gap between 2.22 and 3.33. And I'm still wondering if it will be addressed someday or not.


I get his rage. Not everyone wants to analyze the film for months to get a guess of what we think might have happened.

And especially after waiting 3 years for a continuation getting a film that basically tells you jack just so everyone can "properly identify with Shinji" and then make you wait a few more years to give you the answers is especially frustrating. Some people get annoyed waiting have a decade for answers here.

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:13 pm

3.0 is a film that needs multiple viewing to see most of its subtleties and get clues of possible answers to some questions, but I can understand if someone doesn't want to go through its bleakness all over again. Hell, I actually only saw it three times in it's entirety! :lol:
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby LightDragonman » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:28 pm

You know, I actually agree with the review.

Again, while I do see that 3.33's formal ambitions and developments were quite interesting to look at, from an objective storytelling POV, I still consider it to be a mess. Not to mention that because FINAL isn't out yet, it has essentially ended at this depressing point. This really makes it hard to care for anything that's gonna happen since the film has basically completely invalidated the hero's actions. If this was to tie into the film as it was to be released the following year, they should have kept it that way, not delay it until who knows when.

Really, while it has some really cool themes and formal developments, upon looking at it from a narrative and storytelling POV, I'm gonna say that 3.33 is flawed beyond belief. Themes and symbols mean nothing if you don't care what is gonna happen. That is my problem with the film. As it is, the film is nothing but a glorified lecture on morality and consequences without any sort of substance to back it up.

And for those who say that it is meant to coincide with FINAL in order to make it work, why can't it stand on its own? For that matter, why couldn't they have just waited until both films were done and release them simultaneously?
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Postby WunderBah » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:41 pm

Thank you Giji/EL, you've saved my spare time from being wasted on yet another messy 3.0 rant that I've already read off the internet for months.

Cognitive Dissonance is bliss. Terrible.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:26 pm

Something that strikes me about such comments about Q can be summarized with,

"It's not a bug, it's a feature."

It's the POINT that it all looks bleak and unsalvagable, that everyone turned bitter in a way that alienates us (and in misatos case, even the VAs!) from them (Allthough there's no debating that it wasn't the mk nine's speed alone that saved Shinji's neck, don't get me wrong. I think what confuses the person is what I think is the great and telling thing about the scene: Misato is standing in full position, her whole body outstretched, she had all intentions to pull this trigger, but in the last step of the process, her finger just... wouldn't... go down. ) that ReiQ is not the same as Rei... it's not stupidity, it's the ugly truth about scared people in jungle-like situations.

It's the POINT that this can't be answered with simple sentences like, "This person is to blame" or "That was an evil thing to do" or "Thy could have done X"... none of that makes the damage go away, it's a fact, and it's a fact that it impacted (pun unintended) people's lives.

That's the hrror of the movie, that's it's genius and relevance to us all.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:40 pm

I clocked out after the second line. What the fuck is a "Barrel of Miyazaki" & how do you expect anything you say to be taken as constructive criticism when you open with "turd salad".

Nah. I'm good.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:44 pm

Rebuild of Evangelion 3.33 is a movie that beautifully executes narrative suicide.

How else could you take the Barrel of Miyazaki that the first two Rebuild films had set up and turn out this turd salad? Why did Hideki Anno completely change the entire premise of the series right at the halfway point?


Emphasis mine.

I got three sentences in and already think the review is gonna suck. I dunno why, but every other Eva review out there has Anno's name spelled wrong and it kinda pisses me off. If you're gonna write an analytical review of a show that's considered by many to be highbrow, why don't you research the CREATOR'S name properly before publishing your review.

People are turning into lazy charlatans. Fuck this world, I'm about to set off Third Impact in my toilet. Prep the plunger AKA Lance of Longinus.

EDIT: I'll still read the review and give my thoughts on it later.
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Postby Warren Peace » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:42 am

I think there needs to be a Godwin's Law-esque rule for invoking The Phantom Menace in movie reviews.

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Postby Blue Monday » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:22 am

Not even going to open the links - Seen enough of these "reviews" as it is.
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:42 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:I got three sentences in and already think the review is gonna suck. I dunno why, but every other Eva review out there has Anno's name spelled wrong and it kinda pisses me off.

Oh it's just the beginning, he consistently call WILLE "WILIE", and Kaworu became "Kawoaru". :tongue:
Last edited by ElMariachi on Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:52 am

"Willie" actually, which is worse.
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