Puella Magi Madoka Magika [3]

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Postby Defectron » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:01 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Was having a discussion on Twitter about Madoka and Rebellion with somebody who just finished Madoka, and thoughts on Rebellion are definitely mixed: Most fans who replied besides me were saying to avoid Rebellion/pretend it doesn't exist.

Personally, I'm interested in seeing where the story goes in Movie 4, and I can properly judge Rebellion based on that. Though Rebellion's definitely dark (and I understand that character differences would piss fans off), I enjoyed it for what it was.


I liked rebellion better overall then the series myself. I still say this would be an awesome way to end the franchise, it was a movie that I found enjoyable and also pissed a lot of other people off, thats a great way to end things!

But hey maybe movie 4 will be even better, I thought this was just milking things when i heard they were continuing madoka past the series but was pleasantly surprised with how good the movie was, so maybe it will happen again.
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Postby Ray » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:27 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:I found Rebellion a fine film that trampled all over what had gone before, and not in a good way. Very mixed feelings.


Ikr?

On top of flushing (almost) everything that had been accomplished before in the series, how could Homura do something selfish?
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Postby Defectron » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:00 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Ikr?

On top of flushing (almost) everything that had been accomplished before in the series, how could Homura do something selfish?


I wouldn't be so quick to judge, I've always said that if I had been in Homuras shoes I probably would have acted simialerly. One reason why is despite being a god, Madoka almost fell into Kyubeys trap. Once Homura stole Madokas power she pretty much kicked the asses of the entire Kyubey race from the look of it, Madoka may not have done that and they may have tried again. In other words it comes down to trusting yourself to carry the power and deal with those who might wish to exploit it more then trusting someone else to do so. I can say without any hesitation I would have done something similar to what she did if I had been in her situation, maybe it wouldn't have been exactly what she did but I would have done something along those same lines.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:30 pm

Dub Madoka (never saw the dub) is Hotaru Tomoe for VIZ Sailor Moon. What madness is this?

Hoping she can pull it off! IIRC, VIZ Rei is Homura...
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:58 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:I found Rebellion a fine film that trampled all over what had gone before, and not in a good way. Very mixed feelings.

Rebellion was definitely a film that split the fanbase in two-- I've not really seen anybody that didn't fall into the love it or the hate it camp. For good reason, too-- there's a lot of big stuff that happens (yes, I'm being vague) that can be interpreted in a lot of different ways.

Personally, I loved Rebellion-- but of course, I have respect for those that disagree.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:36 am

View Original PostDefectron wrote:I wouldn't be so quick to judge, I've always said that if I had been in Homuras shoes I probably would have acted simialerly. One reason why is despite being a god, Madoka almost fell into Kyubeys trap. Once Homura stole Madokas power she pretty much kicked the asses of the entire Kyubey race from the look of it, Madoka may not have done that and they may have tried again. In other words it comes down to trusting yourself to carry the power and deal with those who might wish to exploit it more then trusting someone else to do so. I can say without any hesitation I would have done something similar to what she did if I had been in her situation, maybe it wouldn't have been exactly what she did but I would have done something along those same lines.


Well, she probably didn't count on

SPOILER: Show
Homura blabbing the whole story of the anime to Kyubey


View Original PostRay wrote:Ikr?

On top of flushing (almost) everything that had been accomplished before in the series, how could Homura do something selfish?


I thought that it was actually more of a deconstruction of the previously perceived relationship between Homura and Madoka. I'll try to be as vague as possible outside of the spoiler boxes, but the film does seem to attempt to explore how Homura's feelings towards Madoka have been twisted due to all those years of time loops, as well as critiquing Homura's personality and modus operandi in general (as well as whether the original series ending was really that great).

A significant deciding factor in which side of the 'love-hate divide' someone falls on seems to be whether they consider this interpretation of Homura as coincident with her portrayal in the anime/first two films, or drastically different.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:46 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:It sounds like you were lucky enough to come to the series relatively unspoiled. How did you manage that after all these years?


What BobBQ said. I knew that Madoka was exceptionally dark but that was just about it - I never bothered to read more about the series or to watch it. Also, I've never gone through much of this thread.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:16 am

^I was one of the rare people who hadn't heard anything about the show before watching it except for an KST Madoka AMV which I thought was supposed to be a parody. I thought it was just basic mahou shoujo fluff until Episode 3. It is still pretty easy to go into the show without realising its true nature, unless you open a lot of spoilers or read Youtube comments.
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Postby Defectron » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:14 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:Well, she probably didn't count on

SPOILER: Show
Homura blabbing the whole story of the anime to Kyubey




I think Homura probably thought Kyubey would just be all "cool story bro" when she did that with the excuse probably being that she just needed someone to tell her story to. Of course it didn't go that way and Kyubey was like "you know that really is a cool story bro. Lets see if we can make it happen in this timeline?"

I'm guessing Homura needed someone who wouldn't assume she was insane to tell her story to, I should know having weird stuff happento you makes you want to talk to people about it and Kyubey was probably the only person who'd be likely to listen to her without any bias about her story. All things considered though it probably would've been better if she just talked to her fellow magical girls about it instead and risked them thinking she was crazy.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:41 pm

^That does actually become a plot point in Rebellion

SPOILER: Show
Specifically, the big flower field conversation when Homura talks about how nobody else knew about Madoka, to the point that she could almost believe that she'd made Madoka up.
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Postby robersora » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:05 am

So apparently Kitsune (Japanese mythological foxes) are in possession of „Kitsune no tama“ a spherical ball. If those fluffy foxes are separated from them for too long, they might die. And if a human steals one of those from a kitsune, it’ll grant the person a wish.
The more you know...
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:47 pm

For those who don't know, there's a interquel manga called Wraith Arc that began serialization in the Kirara Magica magazine.

As you probably guessed, it's an interquel between the end of the TV series and the events of Rebellion, starting with the Magical Team formed by Mami, Kyouko and Sayaka sometime before this world's Homura joins them and the arriving of the Homura from the previous universe, and apparently plans to continues up until the events of Rebellion, explained what the fuck was Homura doing in a desert in the middle of god-knows-where.

That makes it the first and so far only official work depicting the universe created by Madoka's apotheosis, with Wraiths rather than Witches. We learn more about said Wraith, notably that they works like Shadows from Persona (eating their victims' emotion until they are only an unemotional husk), also the interaction between Kyouko and Sayaka is pure gold, a constant blending of sass, infighting and yuri bait!

A scantrad can be found here.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:18 am

^Consider my interest piqued.

By the way, ElMariachi, did you hear about the Madoka Magica historical spin-off featuring Jeanne d'Arc?
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Postby Ray » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:28 pm

I don't know if I should find this blasphemous or awesome. Considering Joan of Arc is a big Icon in both Protestant and Catholic tradition. Which I consider myself a part of.

Most comic books never really address how inherently spiritual historical figures fit into inherently nihilistic universes. Aside from one off jokes like Joss Whedon made during his run on X-Men.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:11 pm

It's not like this is her first outing in Japanese media.
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Postby Ray » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:18 pm

and it's somewhat forgivable when you consider Japan has a population that is less than 1% Christian, and you consider the Urobutcher's inherently nihilistic and grimdark style of writing.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:41 am

^It helps that the anime has actually shown us where this story ends:

SPOILER: Show
ImageThe bright glowing thing's her Soul Gem, if it wasn't clear enough.
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Postby Ray » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:51 pm

Well. . . . with what Homura did to the Universe and Madokami that might be retconned at least to a certain extent.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:12 pm

FINALLY sat myself down and watched PMMM!

It was a well-done show with lots of interesting ideas, definitely deserving of the praise it's received. I'm still in the midst of processing it, as there are some elements I'm not totally certain about. Since I doubt my ability to write a coherent review at this time, I will simply itemize my thoughts.

SPOILER: Show
  • On the whole, I wasn't spoiled. I did know about the show's reputation for pulling the rug out from under the audience. I was also aware of an early death, the "Kyubey is an evil mastermind" meme, and Sayaka having a suboptimal fate. Other than that, though, not much to speak of.

  • This obviously kept Mami's death from having any impact: her overconfident battle bliss against a seeming pushover of an enemy was obviously building up to the "gotcha!" moment of legend, so right before it happened I was all, "lol, you gonna die". I was disappointed that the resulting scene was completely bloodless...

  • Kyubey is very entertaining and probably one of my favorite parts of the show. The jokes about him being an evil little furball come easily, but the truth is much more interesting, that he and his kind have a completely different sense of morality and goodness. We are so poor at comprehending the Incubator viewpoint that the best we can do is call it "amoral".

    It's interesting to contrast audience reactions to the "amoral benefactor" type character, one who willingly creates a microcosm of misery for a macrocosm of good, against reactions to the opposing character type, one who generates a macrocosm of misery in exchange for a microcosm of good. (Compare: a hero who sacrifices a loved one for the lives of millions, vs. a hero who sacrifices millions so that a loved one may live.) Reactions to the former are typically hostile and scathing, while those to the latter are frequently sympathetic and apologetic. I suppose this probably just speaks to how humans are programmed to make decisions on a very small scale rather than think in the grand scheme. Some are capable of abstracting their way beyond such limitations, though this doesn't necessarily mean anything for how such persons will act under stress: they could easily abandon the ideal of global action for the visceral righteousness of acting on a tribal level.

  • Early on, Kyubey's ear appendages bothered me for reasons I couldn't quite place. Later seeing fans compare them to Fallopian tubes felt very, "OHHHHHHhhhh". Yet this interpretation doesn't seem to be taken for granted. Hmm.

  • Labyrinth and witch artistic direction was top notch. The influences that went into those must be extensive and fascinating; definitely worth looking into at some point. Occasionally I felt like I was trapped in a grimdark version of Yellow Submarine (which is, itself, a massive pastiche of styles and techniques). Check out the building where Fred and Ringo located the remaining three Beatles -- practically a witch's labyrinth, no?

  • Why did no one seem to consider the idea of Kamijo learning to play with his other hand? Of course he'd never be as good, but why would that matter when the alternative is NOT PLAYING AT ALL? I guess it's common to feel very all or nothing about such things, but I was still surprised that it was never even mentioned.

  • I didn't feel like they elaborated enough on what exactly was so terrible about having your soul housed in a soul gem. It makes your body a "puppet", but so what? How is that any different from how things would work in a dualistic universe anyway? Only difference is that your soul is in a container that's not directly attached to the body it's using. Sayaka called herself a "zombie", but I don't really see it...

  • MAGICAL GIRLS ARE ANGELS! Well, not really, but the parallels between soul gems and Angel cores seemed pretty obvious. I was also amused to see my early jokes about "soul gem = behelit" essentially come true, what with how it turns the owner into a monster when their despair reaches its peak...

  • Sayaka's degradation, along with Kyoko's transition from presenting as a confrontational bitch to being a self-sacrificing BFF both felt too abrupt, especially the latter. "Exactly why are you killing yourself, and for this girl you barely know?" Spreading things out over one additional episode wouldn't have been a bad thing, IMO.

  • The entropy stuff came a bit out of left field, but I thought it was integrated creatively and I had no issue with it. I am a bit confused as to why Kyubey's kind is called "incubators", though. We see them collect concentrated energy, but where does the incubation part come into play?

  • When Madoka was trying to explain to her mom why "THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE TO DO ALONE", I was half-expecting Madoka's mom to reveal that she had a hidden past that involved being approached by Kyubey as a magical girl candidate and refusing. I'm slightly disappointed that didn't happen. It would have given her a concrete reason to let Madoka go, and perhaps she could have provided more targeted guidance as well.

  • How is Madoka able to defeat her own ultimate witch form? That part was sheer concentrated "what the hell is going on?" in a whole episode of "what the hell is going on?"

  • Madokami + World Reset ending felt very "lol anime". I'm not sure how I feel about it. My immediate response was to be underwhelmed, albeit not to the point of it ruining the whole anime for me.

  • Anyone else get Diebuster vibes from the post-climactic Madoka/Homura scene? It made me flashback strongly to Nono and L'alc's final scene together. Parallels: Principal heroine ascends to another plane of existence via the self-sacrifice required to save Earth. Secondary heroine is dragged along to this other plane of existence and gets to hear long and cryptic explanation of main girl's plan. Implicit or explicit confirmation that the two are uber-BFFs. Sub-heroine is sent back to the real world with memento of her friend. Main heroine's sacrifice also results in Big Bang event.

  • I don't know anything about the movies yet (I'll be watching them later), but no way they drop this "wraith" stuff on us at the end and then never explain it...
Last edited by Reichu on Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Defectron » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:54 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:
  • I don't know anything about the movies yet (I'll be watching them later), but no way they drop this "wraith" stuff on us at the end and then never explain it...



Ahahaha...well...

I do hear it is explained in the manga which I have not read yet.
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