How young is too young to see NGE?

This is a forum for general conversations and casual discussions about all things Evangelion. Chit-chatty conversations like "Sachiel is adorable" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?" also belong here.

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Postby HeeroYuyIII » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:44 pm

Because Evangelion is technically a children's franchise on a children's timeslot, it isn't odd to have children watching it. It replaced Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, so that's enough to tell you its demographic, based on timeslot alone. Contrary to popular belief, Evangelion is not deep. Most of it is episodic, with no over-arching plot. I'd argue even Eva's rival series Gundam Wing is more "deep" than Evangelion. They're both pretentious, with Evangelion being more so.
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:41 pm

You are never too young to watch Eva.
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Postby Gorbatschow » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:20 am

View Original PostHeeroYuyIII wrote:Because Evangelion is technically a children's franchise on a children's timeslot, it isn't odd to have children watching it. It replaced Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, so that's enough to tell you its demographic, based on timeslot alone. Contrary to popular belief, Evangelion is not deep. Most of it is episodic, with no over-arching plot. I'd argue even Eva's rival series Gundam Wing is more "deep" than Evangelion. They're both pretentious, with Evangelion being more so.


:huh: Constructivist epistemology as a main theme, multidimensional characters and a complex frame-story aren't deep because of the time-slot and the episodic nature ? And how exactly is Gundam deeper than Eva, it's literally robots fighting robots ?
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:29 am

View Original PostGorbatschow wrote::huh: Constructivist epistemology as a main theme, multidimensional characters and a complex frame-story aren't deep because of the time-slot and the episodic nature ? And how exactly is Gundam deeper than Eva, it's literally robots fighting robots ?

He was joking. :tongue:

Or, I think he was....
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Postby HeeroYuyIII » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:21 pm

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:He was joking. :tongue:

Or, I think he was....


Nope, wrong. How is Eva deep?

First 17 episodes are episodic. You can watch most of it out of order. 18-26 becomes more plot driven. So? Eva's story is simple. Preventing the 3rd Impact. Along the way, we are introduced to one dimensional main character Shinji Ikari. All he does is say "I musn't run away, I musn't run away" get scared a few times, fucks up in his "mech" and whine.

Then we have emotionless, quiet glasses girl, who admittedly is the innovator of this trope, but is still boring and a bit of a slave to Gendo.

We have tsundere bitch Asuka, who always acts boastful, gets pissed off regularly and has the hots for Kaji.

Misato and Gendo are the only "complex" characters. Misato becomes more trusting towards Shinji, her past is more interesting, her motivation are interesting, she becomes more open, shows more maturity, more sorrow and that is what makes a deep, complex character. Misato is truly queen!

Gendo sees his son as a tool first, but he then learns to be thankful to Shinji and less harsh. Not as deep, but more development.

Shinji, Asuka and Rei never change.

Also, the "themes." The producers say the how "religious" aspects were there to be "cool" and only to be cool, because said aspects fly over the heads of mostly non religious Japanese kids. Angels, Evangelions, Genesis, all for show. This isn't deep.

In Gundam Wing, even if the characters are also a bit 1D, they at least do somewhat change and have pasts(canon or non canon, it's your choice) and at least they seem more professional. Heero Yuy is so much better written than Shinji, it's not even funny. He is skilled, he shows suppression, but he also shows weakness and sorrow. Better than Shinji at least.
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:21 pm

View Original PostHeeroYuyIII wrote:one dimensional main character Shinji Ikari. All he does is say "I musn't run away, I musn't run away" get scared a few times, fucks up in his "mech" and whine.

Have we even watched the same show?

The producers say the how "religious" aspects were there to be "cool" and only to be cool, because said aspects fly over the heads of mostly non religious Japanese kids. Angels, Evangelions, Genesis, all for show. This isn't deep.

Irrelevant.
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Postby MisatoCrush » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:35 pm

I'm a huge fan of gundam wing mobile suit but it didn't affect me emotionally the way nge did. Not even close. GWMS rocks just because it absolutely kicks ass and rocks.

nge is less about the machines and fighting and develops the characters and their stories a lot more.

together the combine to become...my favorite 2 animes. :)
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Postby Dataprime » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:05 pm

View Original PostHeeroYuyIII wrote:Because Evangelion is technically a children's franchise on a children's timeslot, it isn't odd to have children watching it. It replaced Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, so that's enough to tell you its demographic, based on timeslot alone. Contrary to popular belief, Evangelion is not deep. Most of it is episodic, with no over-arching plot. I'd argue even Eva's rival series Gundam Wing is more "deep" than Evangelion. They're both pretentious, with Evangelion being more so.

I'm sorry but just because TMNT and Eva shared roughly the same timeslot in Japan
and equaling them to having the same demographic isn't competently fair.
You have to remember that those are two shows from two different countries
that have two completely different cultures. Japan and America also have totally
different standards & practices from one another on
what they allow (or won't) on their programming for it's viewers.
What one allows on it's networks isn't always necessarily allowed on the other.
Even more so when you are talking about two different countries all together.

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Postby Lumiere » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:36 am

I watched it for the first time when I was 13. I didn't understand any of it and I thought I had to throw up when I saw scenes like
SPOILER: Show
Unit 01 ripping the angel apart, or Kaworu getting squished.
. Wish I had watched it a bit later, I was really freaked out by it and I was just too young for an Anime like this. (my opinion)
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:04 am

View Original PostHeeroYuyIII wrote:Nope, wrong. How is Eva deep?

First 17 episodes are episodic. You can watch most of it out of order. 18-26 becomes more plot driven. So? Eva's story is simple. Preventing the 3rd Impact. Along the way, we are introduced to one dimensional main character Shinji Ikari. All he does is say "I musn't run away, I musn't run away" get scared a few times, fucks up in his "mech" and whine.

Then we have emotionless, quiet glasses girl, who admittedly is the innovator of this trope, but is still boring and a bit of a slave to Gendo.

We have tsundere bitch Asuka, who always acts boastful, gets pissed off regularly and has the hots for Kaji.

Misato and Gendo are the only "complex" characters. Misato becomes more trusting towards Shinji, her past is more interesting, her motivation are interesting, she becomes more open, shows more maturity, more sorrow and that is what makes a deep, complex character. Misato is truly queen!

Gendo sees his son as a tool first, but he then learns to be thankful to Shinji and less harsh. Not as deep, but more development.

Shinji, Asuka and Rei never change.

Also, the "themes." The producers say the how "religious" aspects were there to be "cool" and only to be cool, because said aspects fly over the heads of mostly non religious Japanese kids. Angels, Evangelions, Genesis, all for show. This isn't deep.

In Gundam Wing, even if the characters are also a bit 1D, they at least do somewhat change and have pasts(canon or non canon, it's your choice) and at least they seem more professional. Heero Yuy is so much better written than Shinji, it's not even funny. He is skilled, he shows suppression, but he also shows weakness and sorrow. Better than Shinji at least.


I have several objections to this, but listing them all would deviate from the topic too much. Needless to say if you actually watched the show you would see how the characters change and develop over the course of the episodes, rather than just sticking to the cardboard cut-out tropes you seem to associate them with.

And Gendo being thankful of Shinji? Rei as a 'glasses girl'? :lol:
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Postby Tier_15 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:46 am

here is the key. Be sure if anyone sees it (no matter what age) that they are sure to treat it as art rather than get too involved or wrapped up. Children under 18 are far more susceptible to taking stuff too seriously and so many heavy themes in Eva can be difficult to fully understand (was for me when I saw Eva at 14). If you treat it as a artistic masterpiece rather than some life altering journey of self-discovery (which is how I interpreted Eva seeing it as a kid) it can protect anyone from getting too deep in the troubling connotations put forth by the show at times. Hideki Anno himself said people take Eva too seriously and I infer he would rather have people enjoy it than get deeply depressed or troubled by it. This at least IMHO. I would srsly watch each episode (on my local KTEH PBS station on Sunday) then spend the next week trying to figure out everything and all the different things that were meant by it. It made me very aware of myself and made me think at a higher level about self-existence which was good but I feel I got quite a bit carried away and that's where the danger lies.
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Postby Erato » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:58 pm

I'm 16 and just watched it. I've been really depressed for a day or so, now I just feel extremely concerned about Eva and can't stop thinking about it. Seeing scenes from the series gives me chills, and makes me feel a little bad. Maybe I was a little stupid to watch everything in one day... anyway, I'm still learning about Eva and its world, so I'll have to watch the series again soon. I've found the series ending much more depressing than EoE, which strangely made me feel better.

I think the right age would be... more than 15 ? I'm not sure if any teenager could fully understand the series though.

EDIT : Just like some said, I think it really depends of the person... and a little of the age. A 8 years old wouldn't understand Eva, it's impossible. I know some who are older than me (18 years old and 30 years old) and who still think the story is total bullshit and only appreciate the fights... Personally, I've watched and appreciated movies and series like Stalker (excellent movie btw, must watch) and Twin Peaks at a really young age, so I wasn't disturbed by the complicated story and all, but some could. Anyway, as long as you appreciate and understand NGE, the age isn't that important...

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:24 am

View Original PostHeeroYuyIII wrote:
Also, the "themes." The producers say the how "religious" aspects were there to be "cool" and only to be cool,


"It treats my culture's myth as myth (like ours often does with, say, greek stuff) , so it can have no depht/any other sort of meaning, because the west is clearly the center of the universe"

Reminds me of this reaction to "Angel's egg". "A dude carrying a cross shaed item does something seemingly bad, so it is pretentious!" The RAGE.

View Original PostHeeroYuyIII wrote:Shinji, Asuka and Rei never change.


At this point, I will dispense with the courtesy and dare, at the rist of being torn to shred by everyone else here, dare to say "Blind fool!"

The parabolic curve we see of seemingly positive developement becoming intermixed, and ultimately overwehelmed by negative one =/= ending up where they started =/= nothing happened at all.
It just requires you to pay attention to detail.
Can you see any of the characters do what they do around ep 15/16/17 at the time of their introduction?
You can watch most of it out of order.


Only if you're not paying attention to the subtle developements and revelations that change from episode to episode. They need to sort of spread out/present the characters first/establish their 'default states', so we care when the evil deconstruction hammer hits...

Eva's story is simple. Preventing the 3rd Impact.


Only if you ignore the apocalyptic conspiracy, the musings on the existential inescapabilities of the human condition and the type of people our society produces, as well as a complex ode to the human will to live.

Shinji Ikari. All he does is [...] get scared a few times, fucks up in his "mech" and whine.


It's called realism, aka, something you definitely won't find in TMNT. Let's see how well teenaged!You would do if we stuffed you in a situation that could traumatize trained adult military recruits.
That he isn't a professional is pretty much the point.

We have tsundere bitch Asuka


Those are not very nice words.
I guess pointin out that what Asuka acts like and who Asuka really is are pretty different pairs of shoes is pointless. I'll leave that to her fans. She's also a pretty brilliant commentary on tendencies of superficial facades, perfectionism und the impossible standarts people in this world put on themselves and other's. There's nothing "regular" or "always" about how Asuka acts in the series; Despite of how she portrays herself orany negative things you could say about her, hers is really the story of a naive young girl shattering upon the hard rocks of an unfair word, mostly screaming loud at the world because she thinks no one is listening.

Then we have emotionless

ARGH I could strangle someone each time I see that word. You, Sir, have NOT payed attention AT ALL. No wonder you missed what is commonly regarded the most fascinating character of them all (not to mention the one with perhaps the most clearly directional trajectory over the course of the story, considering yur 'no change' bit. )

Here we have this... stoic warrior poet sort of a character, with determination, loyalty and a bit of a philosophic streak, trying to make sense of herself and her life, which is somewhat impeded by the fact that said life involves all sorts of horrible mad science/cosmic horror stuff.
Nothing she has is really her own, not even her face, or hr very soul, and it was all only loaned to her s she could perfrm some task they wanted from her, and give it all back - She was in highschool by the time she first had a genuine reason to thank anyone.
Which is, of course, a pretty depressing, bleak and painful life leading to a disposition o not seeing her life, self and thoughts as anything particularly valuable, so she goes her way, just forcing herself to do what supposedly needs to be done, barely grazing what others may call the things that make life worthwhile, and not even recognizing the feeling this all creates as loneliness, which... has a way to be fixed. But she sure likes it when company comes her way.
I could go on writing essays about her all day, just... pay attention.

View Original PostErato wrote:I'm 16 and just watched it. I've been really depressed for a day or so, now I just feel extremely concerned about Eva and can't stop thinking about it. Seeing scenes from the series gives me chills, and makes me feel a little bad. Maybe I was a little stupid to watch everything in one day...


That's a normal first time reaction, even for adults.
You're probably still in the process of processing it.
Rewatching helps.
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Postby HeeroYuyIII » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:42 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:"It treats my culture's myth as myth (like ours often does with, say, greek stuff) , so it can have no depht/any other sort of meaning, because the west is clearly the center of the universe"

Reminds me of this reaction to "Angel's egg". "A dude carrying a cross shaed item does something seemingly bad, so it is pretentious!" The RAGE.


I never said that at all, did I? Also, IIRC, I happen to be part of that same culture of people who created the show. I was born in Japan, am ethnically Japanese(well half) and I understand the culture well. I was raised in America, Australia and New Zealand, YES, but it does not mean I do not understand Japanese culture. I understand it more than pretty much anyone in this forum.



At this point, I will dispense with the courtesy and dare, at the rist of being torn to shred by everyone else here, dare to say "Blind fool!"

The parabolic curve we see of seemingly positive developement becoming intermixed, and ultimately overwehelmed by negative one =/= ending up where they started =/= nothing happened at all.
It just requires you to pay attention to detail.
Can you see any of the characters do what they do around ep 15/16/17 at the time of their introduction?


I did and I still didn't notice anything. Shinji still bitches and complains over BS. Asuka always acts like she is the queen of everybody and acts like a bitch and a jerk. Rei is emotionless, as always with nothing of value to say.


Only if you're not paying attention to the subtle developements and revelations that change from episode to episode. They need to sort of spread out/present the characters first/establish their 'default states', so we care when the evil deconstruction hammer hits...


What "deconstruction?" Oh, you mean episode 18, right? Wow, blood and gore is deconstruction? More like hyper violence, yes, but it's not anything Zeta Gundam didn't do. That show was pretty bloody as well.

Only if you ignore the apocalyptic conspiracy, the musings on the existential inescapabilities of the human condition and the type of people our society produces, as well as a complex ode to the human will to live


Having 3 awkward brats is nothing complex. Gundam 0079 has Amuro Ray, who is pretty much the reference of Shinji, but I LOVE Amuro, because he grows some balls. He does the SAME thing as Shinji, yet he matures unlike Shinji and acts like a badass, despite being 2 years older than Shinji at most. In Gundam Wing, my character Heero Yuy loses the will to live, yet develops, as he wants to protect other people. Patlabor 2 does a decent job showing how society can mess us up via war. Eva uses special cases, but unlike Patlabor 2, it doesn't do it in a way that makes the characters understand how life works.


It's called realism, aka, something you definitely won't find in TMNT. Let's see how well teenaged!You would do if we stuffed you in a situation that could traumatize trained adult military recruits.
That he isn't a professional is pretty much the point.


My character did in one mission what Shinji couldn't do in 26 episodes and several movies. He was only slightly older as well. Also, depending on whether you consider this canon or not, Heero looses EVERYTHING. Shinji still has his dad AND a surrogate mother. Shinji has enough, yet he has nothing. Heero has nothing, yet a lot.


Those are not very nice words.
I guess pointin out that what Asuka acts like and who Asuka really is are pretty different pairs of shoes is pointless. I'll leave that to her fans. She's also a pretty brilliant commentary on tendencies of superficial facades, perfectionism und the impossible standarts people in this world put on themselves and other's. There's nothing "regular" or "always" about how Asuka acts in the series; Despite of how she portrays herself orany negative things you could say about her, hers is really the story of a naive young girl shattering upon the hard rocks of an unfair word, mostly screaming loud at the world because she thinks no one is listening.


She may be OTT, agreed, but she shows no subtly. She thinks she's better just because of what she did in episode 8, but by the later episodes, she breaks down, showing that she was a fraud. She also never stops talking.


ARGH I could strangle someone each time I see that word. You, Sir, have NOT payed attention AT ALL. No wonder you missed what is commonly regarded the most fascinating character of them all (not to mention the one with perhaps the most clearly directional trajectory over the course of the story, considering yur 'no change' bit. )

Here we have this... stoic warrior poet sort of a character, with determination, loyalty and a bit of a philosophic streak, trying to make sense of herself and her life, which is somewhat impeded by the fact that said life involves all sorts of horrible mad science/cosmic horror stuff.
Nothing she has is really her own, not even her face, or hr very soul, and it was all only loaned to her s she could perfrm some task they wanted from her, and give it all back - She was in highschool by the time she first had a genuine reason to thank anyone.
Which is, of course, a pretty depressing, bleak and painful life leading to a disposition o not seeing her life, self and thoughts as anything particularly valuable, so she goes her way, just forcing herself to do what supposedly needs to be done, barely grazing what others may call the things that make life worthwhile, and not even recognizing the feeling this all creates as loneliness, which... has a way to be fixed. But she sure likes it when company comes her way.
I could go on writing essays about her all day, just... pay attention.


She's a clone of Yui made by NERV, because Gendo was feeling a bit butthurt and shows his butthurtness by making clones of his dead wife and in child form too. That aside, all she does is buttsuck Gendo, without ever going against him, speak in a deadpan, monotone voice, does nothing in the show, hates meat just because of a self-insertion of Anno and get killed and brought back. She also doesn't help in the sense that she made moe popular, characters who generally have NOTHING going for them. She is one of those. She has NOTHING that makes her an awesome character. Compared to Trowa Barton, who does have some emotion, but he is also pro-active, he's smart and he never lets anyone boss him around.

Also, I've watched Eva more than you and before you were born. I watched Eva in Japanese back in 1995-1996, when I was working in Japan. I watched Eva via LD. I watched Eva in English in 1997 when I was in America and 1999 when it was on Aussie TV. I watched the movies in 1997. I watched the movies in English. I've watched the Rebuilds in Japanese theaters from 2007, 2009 and 2012 and I've watched them all in English. I KNOW Evangelion more than you.
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Postby Dataprime » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:52 pm

View Original PostHeeroYuyIII wrote:Also, I've watched Eva more than you and before you were born. I watched Eva in Japanese back in 1995-1996, when I was working in Japan. I watched Eva via LD. I watched Eva in English in 1997 when I was in America and 1999 when it was on Aussie TV. I watched the movies in 1997. I watched the movies in English. I've watched the Rebuilds in Japanese theaters from 2007, 2009 and 2012 and I've watched them all in English. I KNOW Evangelion more than you.

That doesn't make anyone else's opinion any less relevant than yours just because you saw the series first or more times.

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:11 pm

View Original PostHeeroYuyIII wrote:I LOVE Amuro, because he grows some balls. He does the SAME thing as Shinji, yet he matures unlike Shinji and acts like a badass,

Definition of someone lovable, eh? We're from different worlds, clearly. The comparison with Shinji falls apart right from the first time they each see a big fighting object, I'd say.
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Postby NemZ » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:05 pm

People, stop feeding the troll.
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Postby H-MangaEnthusiast » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:40 pm

Some of the posts above made me laugh out laud for some reason...

On topic,

I think anyone above 16 with average intelligence, little bit of human empathy and investment can grasp it, but for a full picture it would take a lot more investment, and definitely a re-watch. I guess it's not impossible to get it all first time around, but from my experience Eva is pretty loaded with content, so a lot of things can just slip or be noted as irrelevant and just skipped in the long run. And to completely understand the characters... pfff. It's not like people agree on things even now...

That said, there's still a lot of people around the web with no clue what Eva is about... tons of people...
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Postby Tabby » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:41 pm

I first watched Eva at 17. But at that time everything - and I mean everything - was covered by the rosy shades of love since that was when I got into my first real relationship ^^;

BUT. Most people who watch this show don't really have this experience. I would, being someone who has worked with children of all ages, recommend the starting viewing age for the TV series to be 16. EoE would start at 17, and Rebuild would start at 14-15 due to the watered down depth.

Also, please never show Evangelion to a young child! You never know what will traumatize them. Really, kids aren't that stupid.

Evangelionfreak
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Postby Evangelionfreak » Wed May 07, 2014 1:27 am

I saw End of Eva before I saw the series in 2000. Some of it just went over my head honestly and I was like what just happened afterwards. But I turned out juuust fine -o-;
I don't care for Eva-elitists. I don't know everything, and neither do you.

"I'm real tempted to say Kaworu and Evangelionfreak" Rahaquiel-2DIS
"Is that why they call you EvangelionFreak?" DatDude
"I will never understand you, Evangelionfreak. Never ever." Faußtin
"-Shinji is all alone, but Kaworu walks up to him and says, "So it's only us now.". End. YOU[girls]WISH. I'm looking at you, Evangelionfreak."Rahaquiel-2DIS
"Well, that still leaves Evangelionfreak straighter to me. Phew." Reichu


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