Sorry but what problems did people have with Eva 2.0 again?

[WunderBah]

In this forum i mean.

I realized its been discussed years before, but i just wanted ask here for some answers in detail of what problems in the film rubbed others the wrong way. I've always perceived that the entire internet loved it, while in here I've heard it was a somewhat split reaction with 2.0.

[Mr. Tines]

Primarily, that the film was a high budget rendering of an unremarkable low-grade fanfic. e.g.

While these may be minor things that set Eva 2.0 apart from the original series, they manage to culminate together (at least in my mind) to make the Rebuild series seem to be a raging EoE hater's fan fic brought to life.

[Na7e]

People hated how the characters were handled. Gar-Shinji, Moefied Rei, Stereotypical tsundere Asuka.

People hated the character development. Rei's entire development is to showcase how cute she is, and how much she's wants the MC's Cock like any other bland harem lead. Asuka's development is basically non-sensical before she's shipped off to be Bardieled which is one of the more horribly built up scenes in the films because she never actually interacts with Shinji for more than two minutes in the film.

Shitty CGI.

Mari.

Shitty cooking subplot that could've been cut for something more interesting, and not chauvinistic.

Really overall film was bad, and still is bad even though half of it was still bait for 3.0.

[Mr. Tines]

even though half of it was still bait for 3.0.

And most of the changes got unceremoniously dumped through the timeskip anyway, rendering it all pointless.

[Stillborn]

Simple.

For example:

Shinji grew spine and balls and acted on what he wanted. Girls liked him.

But Anno fixed it all in next part, making sure Shinji will achieve nothing and remain doormat and there is no girl that would be interested in him therefore none of the girls are shallow and bland any more. And true fans rejoiced.

[Bagheera]

Shinji grew spine and balls and acted on what he wanted. Girls liked him.

Girls liked him before he did that. They stopped liking him when he did it.

But Anno fixed it all in next part, making sure Shinji will achieve nothing and remain doormat and there is no girl that would be interested in him therefore none of the girls are shallow and bland any more. And true fans rejoiced.

True fans are butthurt, haven't you been paying attention?

And Anno made sure Shinji couldn't achieve anything by being stupid. Jury's still out on whether or not he can achieve anything by being smart. He actually does pretty well when he tries that route.

OP: There were lots of reasons people hated 2.0, ranging from changes in the backstory to tepid character arcs to issues with character role and symbolism. Most of that had as much to do with viewer expectations as it did with the actual show, though; now that Q's out and it's fair to say we can expect a similar game-changer in Final many of us seem inclined to cut Ha more slack, if only because hating it all the time is more trouble than it's worth. NTE is what it is, best to let it ride and go with the flow and see what Anno comes up with.

[Giji Shinka]

Because it wasn't the Eva old fans knew.

Well, rebuilt films are pretty disliked in general.

People usually say:

-1.0 is too similar to NGE.

-2.0 is too Gurren Lagann.

-3.0 is too different.

Also, I've seen only few people (Me included) who say that 1/2/3.0 are better than NGE.

[Na7e]

Also, I've seen only few people (Me included) who say that 1/2/3.0 are better than NGE.

Put it in words for me why you like it better.

[Giji Shinka]

^Better everything, except side characters who don't get much development.

[ElMariachi]

Well, rebuilt films are pretty disliked in EGF.

FTFY.
From what I saw in the Internet, most people loved 2.0 for having the pilots being so badass, less angsty and by giving Shinji a "giant metallic spin".
The fact it didn't stayed due to the events of Q being one of the main reasons why most of the Internet dislikes 3.0.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

And most of the changes got unceremoniously dumped through the timeskip anyway, rendering it all pointless.

Really? This again?

People didn't like 2.0 because it reminded them too much of all the fun they had watching the original Eva before things got thematically dark, completely forgetting that Eva never gets dark without having some fun first.

Also, to put the point of that linked thread to the test, watch 1.11, then watch 3.33 WITHOUT seeing 2.22. Skip it entirely, if it's truly so worthless. Then when all is said and done, tell me truthfully if what was posted in that thread made any logical and coherent sense. Anyone who would still argue that 2.22 was pointless after than is undoubtedly contrarily arguing arbitrarily.

[qu4d]

Tines hasn't seen the new movies yet

[Na7e]

People didn't like 2.0 because it reminded them too much of all the fun they had watching the original Eva before things got thematically dark, completely forgetting that Eva never gets dark without having some fun first.

Yeah, and it was also written pretty well when it was fun. That isn't the case in 2.0. If it truly was about it not being dark enough in the second half I would be creaming my pants over 3.0, but sadly I can't get through that snoozefest of a film for a second time.

[pwhodges]

Tines hasn't seen the new movies yet

Doubtless, if mediaeval theologians had actually debated the number of angels that could stand on the head of a pin (they didn't), he could have held his own with the best of them!

[Bagheera]

^Better everything, except side characters who don't get much development.

That's all the characters except Shinji, dude. For anyone who liked non-Shinji characters and the original plot your "everything" amounts to a fraction of what was actually in the show.

People didn't like 2.0 because it reminded them too much of all the fun they had watching the original Eva before things got thematically dark, completely forgetting that Eva never gets dark without having some fun first.

Very bad idea to put words in peoples' mouths, chum. Most of the complaints we saw here dealt with character development (or lack thereof), themes, plot coherence, and the like, and rarely amounted to "oh, this is too actiony to be Eva!"

Also, to put the point of that linked thread to the test, watch 1.11, then watch 3.33 WITHOUT seeing 2.22. Skip it entirely, if it's truly so worthless. Then when all is said and done, tell me truthfully if what was posted in that thread made any logical and coherent sense. Anyone who would still argue that 2.22 was pointless after than is undoubtedly contrarily arguing arbitrarily.

Actually, the level of confusion there would be about the same, since we missed a movie between 2.xx and 3.33 anyway.

[Mr. Tines]

People didn't like 2.0 because it reminded them too much of all the fun they had watching the original Eva before things got thematically dark

The substance of the complaints was that it wasn't like watching the original Eva because the main characters were all gratingly off-key.

Personally I'd noped by the time I saw the trailers with Gerry Anderson spaceships and the stray dolem; everything reported after Ha actually came out merely served to reinforce that it really was that George Lucas bad if not worse.

Skip it entirely, if it's truly so worthless.

The fact that Ha sits there like a roadblock is why I don't expect to watch Q (or Final) -- not that Q is without its problems (while it's not quite true to say that I liked the original despite Shinji, the relentless focus in Q -- already noted in some of the criticisms of Ha back in the day -- being one).

However the vast majority of the changes -- character and background both -- in Ha that were made from NGE 7-19 were unceremoniously dumped in Q by virtue of the timeskip. A Ha that was more in tune (as opposed to gratingly off key) could still have led to something virtually indistinguishable from Q -- so, maybe Asuka has both eyes, and Mana Kirishima is her second, but otherwise much the same. And that is what is most galling about the Ha we have.

[Bagheera]

The substance of the complaints was that it wasn't like watching the original Eva because the main characters were all gratingly off-key.

Less that than that Anno didn't spend enough time getting from point A to point B to justify the events onscreen. Also, stripping out plot elements and making the whole spiel relentlessly Shinji-centric, but that ironically reversed itself in Q when the supporting cast got some serious offscreen development despite the movie's focus on Shinji.

Personally I'd noped by the time I saw the trailers with Gerry Anderson spaceships and the stray dolem; everything reported after Ha actually came out merely served to reinforce that it really was that George Lucas bad if not worse.

It really wasn't (and I'll reiterate my ire here that you see fit to comment on them without bothering to watch it even a single time. No matter the movie's problems -- and there are many -- you can't possibly know what you're talking about without actually watching the show. And you're smart enough to know this, and to know that we know it, so your continued recalcitrance on this point is baffling).

However the vast majority of the changes -- character and background both -- in Ha that were made from NGE 7-19 were unceremoniously dumped in Q by virtue of the timeskip.

That is an overhyped point, and it's actually pretty debatable. It's not clear if they were dropped or resolved off-panel, for instance, and it's possible (and perhaps even likely) that important connections will be made between the events in the timeskip and the events in Final going forward. There are just too many unanswered questions about the timeskip to know for certain.

[LegionWrex]

Never understood the hate for 2.0. I admit, I was mixed when I first saw it, but I quickly grew to love it.

-Great animation
-Fantastic script
-Awesome action setpieces
-Mari
-One of the best ending scenes in the HISTORY of anime

[SoryuUberAlles]

For me, It's something that came up in this thread about an LTE proposal: [url]http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/15648/NGE-plot-in-three-25-hour-movies [/url] (Hi LegionWrex!)

Whether you always wanted 3.0's new direction, 1.0's streamlined update with a simpler presentation and better animation, 2.0 has to bear the strain of the entire journey from one to the other. 1.0 does about 6 episodes in about 90 minutes and 2.0 does the next 13, twice as many, in roughly the same time. 1.0 is given the same time to handle the Beginning arc as 2.0 is for both the Action and Descent arcs.

In particular, whatever you think about shipping wars, there is an issue that came up in this thread: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/689347/Sadamoto-Shipping-Ayanami/

In this case, the fact that there is the fact that of a massive compression of 2.0's equivalent episodes, combined with more space given to Rei and Shinji's relationship, and the fact that this where most of Asuka/Shinji happens, means that Shikinami is pretty squeezed out.

Actually, if my biggest complaints so far were 1) Mari is taking up limited air-time and I don't see what she's doing with it, 2) Shikinami has so little focus, then the fact that 3.33 actually sets up a whole movie for Mari and Asuka to take their place in the Rebuild I actually find very encouraging.

it's possible (and perhaps even likely) that important connections will be made between the events in the timeskip and the events in Final going forward. There are just too many unanswered questions about the timeskip to know for certain.

It's all up in the air! I'm completely readying myself for Final to make this all seem like complete retroactive genius and I have very high hopes for it!

Even then, though, 2.0 has to carry a lot of the stress of the transition.

[pwhodges]

Personally I'd noped by the time I saw the trailers

If you watched the films, you could (if you still truly felt that way) say exactly the same things and we'd have to listen to you; but at the moment it seems that your specific reason for not watching them is so that you will have no evidence to interfere with your contrariness on the matter!

Most of people's problems seem to come from treating the films as an alternate version of the series - the complaints are frequently "so-and-so gets less time", "such-and-such a character isn't developed the same", and the like - and I suggest that just watching the films in their own right, and making a judgement of them on their own merits (as far as possible before they are complete), should come before starting on the parallels between the series and the films.