Does Asuka hate Shinji in Q? [Split]

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment is scheduled to debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Does Asuka hate Shinji in Q? [Split]

Postby Lord ikari shinji » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:07 pm

[Split from "Evangelion 3.0 interviews". - Monk]

View Original PostRei IV wrote:Awesome find. Perhaps this interview can clarify the misconception that Asuka "hates" Shinji or that she has gone a complete 180 or any other tired exaggeration of the character and her depiction in the film.


wait,people think Asuka hates Shinji in 3.0?! :|

lol..... I thought she was always that way towards Shinji
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Postby Kendrix » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:08 pm

View Original PostLord ikari Shinji wrote:
lol..... I thought she was always that way towards Shinji


Nah, it can't be compared. It may look sorta similar superficially, and that's what confused people, but this is a totally different thing;

Series!Asuka hated Shinji with an "angry teenager" kind of hate, essentially, he happened to remind her of traits in herself that she doesn't like, ended up getting things she wanted to get, and didn't telepathically know to do the things she wanted him to do; He's like an older brother you're jealous of, or, at worst, like this one classmate whose attitude just pisses you off. This kind of person becomes little more than an anecdote when you get put into another class; Things rarely get as escalated as in the case of Shinji and Asuka, but they were both being put through the mental meatgrinder. If you and a person who mildly annoys you end up on a solitary island where you have to fight to survive and are faced with the brink of starvation on a regular basis, there's a good chance one of you will have the other for breakfast before you're recued. I don't wanna say it could have been anyone else, there were things about his person in particular that irked her, but... it's a teenage thing that could be expected to fully evaporate when she grows up.
You can imagine her being forty, looking back, and concluding that they were simply both young and stupid, and possibly still writing Shinji from time to time, as an "old friend".
And Shinji could always turn the table and go, "Hypocrite! You're no better than me!"

Q!Shinji no longer has that privilege - she's absolutely got the high ground in maturity, physical stregth and knowledge of the functionality of this cruel world... and, of course, she didn't cause any catastrophes.
He's no longer that annoying wussy older sibling who gets all the privileges or even a fellow teenager of the opposite sex who rejected her romantic advances; To her, he's the person who destroyed her life, forced ten years of constant combat on her and got her stuck in a disfigured, stunted body without any hope of any future.
He probably killed all her friends and remaining family members aside from a cold, hardened Misato who probably wasn't the warmest mother you could imagine after Kaji's death.
He took her innocence.
And the worst is, they used to be friends once, so chances are she views him as a traitor, too.
In any case, this will not go away with anything short of say, singlehandedly slaying Gendo and bringing WILLE his head, and even then, things will never go back to the way they were.

For you to be able to summon up the will to kick someone even when they're reduced to a catatonic wreck, you need to have stopped thinking of them as a person with feelings and favorite colors and shit; And really, this Asuka knew him a few weeks as random classmate, and fourteen years as scourge of humanity. He's not a person to her, he's a disease.
The way you don't particulary mind if they shoot a shut-away geezer who has spent the last few years in miserable hiding full of holes before he can get out of bed if the geezer in question is Osama Bin Laden.
Sure, unlike Dictators and Top Terrorists, Shinji had no clue what he was doing, nor did he want any of it, but do you think these people who lost their homes and families will care?
Most won't, that is, unfortunately, a sad, sad fact of human nature, and IMHO where the real horror of this movie lies.

That's incomparable to finding your roomate irritating and being unable to deal with conflict properly because you're a fucked up teenaged girl.
It's not like all classic!Asuka felt for Shinji was negative in nature; If they hadn't let other things get in the way, it would have been conceivable for them to have mutually beneficial a sibling/comerade bond like in the action arc and throughout most spinoffs where they don't get all hormonal over each other.
Sure, Q!Asuka also had that touched/moved expression after he lazored the nemesis series, but that's the old light you see when a star dies and the light of it going nova hasn't reach the earth yet.
She doesn't feel anything remotely positive toward him anymore, except, maybe, if you're inclined to believe the more optimistic forum members, maybe pity.
If you count that as positive.

It's especially jarring since we're talking of Rebuild!Asuka here, not her series counterpart - things between the two never got quite as destructive, presumably because Rebuild Shinji didn't "feed the trolls" as much, and didn't to seem to have any beef towards whatsover by the time she was getting ready to climb into EVA 03. She was all like, "It's allright for me to confide in people! Lately, I've been realizing that having friends is awesome! I'm even gonna make peace with Rei!"
But then, bam, Bardiel'd, and the next we see of her is this tough-as-nails amazon queen. "Human life is expedable!"

She was a cute teenage girl once.
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:32 pm

^
You're talking about the Q!Asuka of that Alternate Universe where after finding Shinji in his entry plug proceed to break his kneecap and gouge out his eye before torturing him to death with a sadistic glee right?

'Cause that's absolutely not the Asuka I saw in Q : the one in here is not downright hateful toward Shinji, she's exasperated and very frustrated because he's the exact same teenager than 14 years ago with the exact same personal problems(which are trivial now in front of this new harsh world and he should learn to get over them quickly) that lead him to being so easily manipulated by his father, which in the end course only made the situation more complicated for WILLE.
And the worst is that deep down she knows that it's not totally his fault, because his father mercilessly molded him into the boy he become since age four to make him the perfect manipulable pawn for his plans, and that thanks to said plans he ended trapped on hibernation for the past 14 years, before being snatched away again by the bastard Gendo mere hours after they brought him back in the world of the living.

And that's why she ran to his entry plug to check on him, and finally came back to grab him out of the entry plug after lecturing him and starting to leave.

As for the kicking someone in a catatonic state, the problem is that she don't know he's in a catatonic state!

Barely hours before she was talking to him through their respective Evas's loudspeaker, and he looked perfectly responsive. And she know that he really wanted to save the world with the spears, he told it to her, so she knows that he wasn't willingly working for SEELE to bring forth HIP and was actually manipulated(through not by who she thought), but in the end he didn't listened, had gone to the spears, and WILLE had to clean the mess behind him.

Well okay, bad shit happened because he didn't wanted to listen to her, and in the end the event proved that he was wrong and she was right, so at least she could expect him to be the bigger man, act like a grown-up and go look for her and profusely apologize for being a moron and brat! Which also parallels Mari's rousing speech to Shinji : "Everything's settled! Get a hold of yourself, Puppy Boy! Stop being such a baby! Help out the Princess, at least! You're a man, aren't you?!", which could translate as "Okay you were manipulated and screwed up, but we fixed the situation, so act like a man a go check for Asuka and while you're at it excuse yourself(with paroles and also acts : "go help her" as in "give her an hand for the upcoming long trip to the desert"), if you show good will we'll be able to sort out something advantageous for you, or at least not too harsh!"

But then no signs of Shinji, so Asuka wonders what could have happened to him : did he get lost in the ruins, did the entry plug landed badly and he's blocked or wounded, did that asshole Gendo put a mechanism that killed him when he ejected, did Shinji simply abandoned her?
So she gets out and search for his entry plug, and after sometime finally find it, safely landed in the ruins but with all the emergency exits still closed, so it's possible that he's really dead inside it. So she runs to the entry plug, activate the emergency explosive bolts, take a look inside... and see him sulking in the corner of the entry plug, without any intention of getting out.
From Asuka's point of view, Shinji screwed-up hard, got again completely manipulated by the enemy, almost triggered the complete obliteration of mankind, and she finds him sulking like a fucking brat inside his entry plug!
Cue her rant that he didn't come to help her, that he only thought of himself(i.e. that he preferred stay comfortably in his entry plug to pout instead of thinking that maybe Asuka who had to eject in catastrophe right in the middle of fucking Fourth Impact may need some help and that he should at least look for her as a way to begin to apologize for what he has done!), that he thinks that by staying in a corner and not saying anything he will get away from everything, like a brat who think that by not saying anything after doing a bad thing the parents will never notice it.

So now, at the peak of her anger and frustration, she decides that if he wants that much ot sulk in a corner like a brat, then she'll let him sulk all the way he want, and started to leave... before cooling off a little and realizing that even with his stupid and childish behavior, he's still someone unwillingly thrown in the middle of this madness and who genuinely wanted to help(although in a brash and ultimately counter-productive way), and more seriously that if she leave him here he will really die!

So she comes back to pick him... but since she still have a lot of frustration to vent off, manhandle him to vent-off and maybe to make him snap out of his childish behavior!


Well, of course, that's Asuka's point of view, when they mutually barked at one each other in Lilith's Chamber, there weren't a tactical notification in her entry plug saying that "Warning : the pilot has been all but mentally tortured by Gendo during his stay in neo-NERV, spent the last three days without sleeping and his on the verge of insanity, handle with caution"
That's why, when she found him curled into a ball and refusing to talk, she assumed that he was sulking(made worse by the fact that he flinched when she talked to him, so maybe he was aware that she was talking to him!), but again, there wasn't a label in his front saying : I've been mentally tortured to insanity by my father and have seen the last person who could have helped me find a way to atone get his head explode in front of him because of my stubbornness, I've lost all sanity and the will to live, please kill me!"

Yeah, he did have some nasty dark circles under the eyes, and did have gaunt cheeks, but there could be other reasons than "he was destroyed mentally and didn't slept in days", like that the food at neo-NERV was horrible, or that he was so confused with what was happening that he couldn't stop thinking about it and that prevented him to have a good night of sleep(and that's what kind of happened before Toji's shirt : the moment he stop playing piano, or practicing piano in his room, or searching for English books for Rei, he start to have what everyone around him told him repeating in his head, maybe that's why he asked Kaowru to repair his SDAT and asked him to see the stars with him when it was clear that it would take him part of the night to repair it : as long as he's doing something or is with someone, the voices don't assault his mind), maybe the events of the day tired him a lot(after all, he only got one fight against another Eva in his whole carrier, and isn't used to the intensity of Asuka's fighting style. On top of that, he was synchronized with an Eva that Awoke, that could be an extremely intense experience for the pilot which took a physical toll on him).
Or even simpler : she's so pissed that she simply doesn't see the obvious signs right under her nose! After all, Shinji can't have the exclusivity of not noticing people's feelings around him when he's very pissed off(like when he resigned after Bardiel).
It's perfectly possible that if the desert trip lasts several days and Shinji still doesn't react at all, to anything she says or do to him, staying like a walking dead with an unnatural detachment to everything around him, she will start to wonder if neo-NERV didn't do something to him and if his "sulking" may not be something far more grave. But in any case it looks like they're in for a very long trip, and sooner or later they will have to rest, eat and drink, so Asuka will have to make Shinji snap out of his funky state so he could nourish himself, and probably realize that there is something very worn and very grave going on with him.


Well at least, that's my interpretation of Asuka and the events of Q. It's as possible as yours don't you think?

Finally, for the saving eyebeams during operation US, remember that she is the one who called him for help!
Sure she was desperate, but it doesn't change the fact that even after 14 years, she still felt enough faith and hope toward him to call for his help... and tell you what? I worked! Shinji awoke EVA-01 and saved her!

And as it has been discussed on many other occasions, there are many hints that Shinji's N3I is not what wrecked the world, so we shouldn't be so categorical in putting that in his list of sins.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby LightDragonman » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:49 pm

Seriously, Asuka in 3.0 frustrated me, for all the reasons you just said. Her coming back for him felt like a dark inversion of Shinji saving Rei at the end of 1.0.

I hope that she'll at least be more sympathetic towards him in FINAL. And heck, I'd like to see her interact with Rei-Q for that matter, as she was the one who told her to think for herself. Considering that it was Rei II that finally made Asuka try to be selfless for once, I wouldn't be surprised if Asuka acts a sort of mentor to Rei-Q.
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:54 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:For you to be able to summon up the will to kick someone even when they're reduced to a catatonic wreck, you need to have stopped thinking of them as a person with feelings and favorite colors and shit; And really, this Asuka knew him a few weeks as random classmate, and fourteen years as scourge of humanity. He's not a person to her, he's a disease.

And yet - in extremis, during operation US, she called out his name. That is simply not consistent with her having such a cold view of him.
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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:42 pm

I think I'm going to have to do some splitting tonight.

EDIT: And I did.
Last edited by Monk Ed on Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:10 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:I think I'm going to have to do some splitting tonight.

May I humbly suggest the "Asuka's Role in 3.0 and Beyond"?

For bonus points, the last post of this topic is talking about Asuka's treatment of Shinji in EVA-13's entry plug.
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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:30 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:May I humbly suggest the "Asuka's Role in 3.0 and Beyond"?

The discussion thus far is not nearly that broad, nor is that title even accurate to what's being discussed -- this is all about the question of whether she hates him, after all, and comparing notes to that effect, with hardly a hint of any discussion of anyone's "role" in the story as a thematic work.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:07 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:And yet - in extremis, during operation US, she called out his name. That is simply not consistent with her having such a cold view of him.


Because he's right there, or at least, an Object she'd associate with him (Unit one.)
It's not like she did this emotional little whisper thing where you star praying and wait for death. She wasn't actually calling for help; That would imply expecting a response. She was stressed and complaining at everything around her, perhaps with a touch of, "Yet another situation you bastard got me into".
It's preceded by a grunt of... yeah, probably also pain, given that she was being grilled alive in a goddamn vacuum, but also annoyance, much like a lot of similar ones she's delivered all across this frachise. Masking Pain with pride is after all one of her specialties.
Did you see her expression when there was an actual reaction?
In case you don't remember, lookie lookie:
SPOILER: Show

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/4qrs.jpg/]Image[/URL]
(Only now I realize how detailed this eyepatch is rendered, and how this has this evangelion-alighnment of this cut to the next to convey a line between it or a continuity of motion;
Even if we don't see them lined up, it conveys the idea that she and EVA 01 are staring each other in the eyes.)


She just totally had the fear of God put into her, cheesy as the phrase may be. It's almost a little girl's expression... on a battle hardened, tough-as-nails thirty year old.
Not once in this movie (and consider, she was alone in space and close to being exploded) do we see her with such unfiltered shock and awe, which, all things considered, is probably the appropiate reaction to an awakened EVA; All other times we saw one, impact and senseless waste of human life ensued swiftly.


You're weighing one situation that may be ambiguous if you take it without context against everything she fucking does in that movie. Especially since this was meant to become dat troll preview that wasn't supposed to give away WTF happened.

It's not like she ever was that attached to him to begin with...

Funny how the same people who were whining how 2.0!Asuka hardly had any role/interaction with Shinji at all appart from the sleepover scene are now adamant that this was enough to create a lifelong, unbreakable bond that can totally withstand decades and a whole near-apocalypse...

"a little deserved scolding" =/= using them as a football, and "She didn't notice" is complete bogus when you ask yourself one single question: "Given the state he was in, how did he get out of that plug?"

Thrown at worst, carried at best, most likely just pulled, but whoever removed him from that entry plug would have gotten a good idea of... he didn't even produce the tiniest yelt when she kicked him.
She lifts him up by his hair, people.

Just compare it with Mari, who would have had even less opportunity to bother with diplomacy because of this whole sixteen kilometer abyss thing and her arms being on fire. She does attempt to communicate to him that giving up now won't really help the situation, but there isn't this whole "This is all your fault because you're a waste of hydrocarbons" speech. She's like, "Hang in, I'm getting you out of there!" ...a degree of symapatheticness or at least awareness/aknowledgement of his role as a pawn.

How was Shinji supposed to locate Asuka's plug in that desert, anyway? (assuming that's even what both girls meant)

You're acting like even implying she no longer holds much love for the guy is automatically an attempt to demerit or even cheaply hate on her, but it's simply stating a fact; Sure, a bit more tact here and there could have helped the situation, especially during the dogma battle, but given the circumstances, it's more a sad truth about human nature than it is an indication of Asuka's qualities as a person.

Realize that 14 years have passed.
(Then you will know despair)
Last edited by Kendrix on Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
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- Good faith Analysis of Mari
- Finish ep 8 commentary

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Postby CJD » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:09 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:And yet - in extremis, during operation US, she called out his name. That is simply not consistent with her having such a cold view of him.


Heh, well I've voiced my view on that already. I'm still betting all my chips on Shinji just being the outlet for her anger and not the source. Can't prove it worth shit, though.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:48 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:Heh, well I've voiced my view on that already. I'm still betting all my chips on Shinji just being the outlet for her anger


Well, in some way, he is; It's obvious that he didn't know shit and that the real culprits behind this situation are SEELE - Asuka is fighting them after all, and putting her life on the line for that.
But SEELE has taken the cheap way out and Gendo's in a cave somewhere; They're not where Asuka can kick and punch them, and she's got a lifetime's worth of wrath in her.

He's just the hate sink/"unwitting instigator of doom"/getting wildly passive-agressive-ed at.
That doesn't mean they don't loathe him, there's such a thing as "dark grey".
It's not like WILLE doesn't know he doesn't know shit, it's that the world has gone so shit that even they no longer care (except for Sakura), and they're the good guys. The heroes. The last stand against the darkness. They're the best that's left in that desert... everyone else must be cannibalizing each other or something.

I know you probably mean that a little differently, but what speaks against that is that she's capable of a bit of... not really happiness but positive confidence when she starts EVA 02 against the NS - I'm the last person to construct that into her being totally happy go lucky out of the plug, but those corners of her mouth were, however briefly, pointing up - Being near Shinji seems to add to her regular level of pissed-ness, not that is is low.

There's just something so sad about her discarded pile of clothing.
She used to be nuts about clothes once, and yeah, most of the extreme vanity was probably more an act than her actual personality, but while extremes are not goof, clothes are still a means of personal expression... that jersey is now her only projection of an identity other than "soldier", and she just leaves it in a random hallway when Duty calls.

And it's the only clothing we see in the whole damn movie that isn't some sort of uniform or hazard suit.
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
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- Good faith Analysis of Mari
- Finish ep 8 commentary

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Postby Jimbob » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:17 pm

I think it has to with Rei honestly.

When she was in danger Shinji sat there and refused to do anything because he felt he couldn't help her, so it was better to do nothing. As a result she got mauled and possibly monsterized.

When Rei was in danger Shinji switched to God mode and wrecked the world to save her.

Added to the fact that Asuka now knows what Rei was, so in her mind Shinji picked a false perfect doll clone (that might have been manipulating him too for all Asuka knows) over her, a "real" girl.

Asuka probably buried all this, content with the knowledge that whatever the case, Shinji presumably died over this poor choice, so he paid his price, and she could move on and be soldier girl for 14 years. But then Shinji suddenly came back, and those feelings with it.

And then when Shinji wakes up all he talks about is Rei Rei Rei, and runs off the instant Rei shows up, again reinforcing that all he seemingly cares about is the false clone, meaning she's either brainwashed him good (so he's weak minded) or he really does prefer his false doll over "real" people (meaning he's stupid/cowardly/etc).

And the thing is while Asuka doesn't quite realize his circumstances, she's not totally off base with that.

It's reminesent of Asuka's last thoughts before her "fall" in the series. That Shinji wouldn't come help her when her mind was being violated, but he would run off to save Rei from the Angel trying to merge with her. Difference was in the series it was out of Shinji's hands (because Eva 01 was sealed away and only unsealed to help Rei, so it was Gendo's choice and not Shinji's) but in Rebuild Shinji really did choose not to help her, but did choose to help Rei.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:28 pm

View Original PostJimbob wrote:It's reminesent of Asuka's last thoughts before her "fall" in the series. That Shinji wouldn't come help her when her mind was being violated, but he would run off to save Rei from the Angel trying to merge with her. Difference was in the series it was out of Shinji's hands (because Eva 01 was sealed away and only unsealed to help Rei, so it was Gendo's choice and not Shinji's) but in Rebuild Shinji really did choose not to help her, but did choose to help Rei.


I haven't seen the relevant bit for awhile now, but as I recall she is talking about Gendo there, not Shinji. Shinji wasn't the main source of her ire in NGE; the true source was Nerv command, who drained her dry and then cast her aside when she was no longer useful. Shinji was just a bit player in her drama, same as she was in his.

You have a point re: Shikinami, though. I think Kendrix and ElMariachi do as well, actually; like most people Shikinami's motives are probably a mix of a bunch of different things, with her feelings for Shinji being likewise complex.
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Postby CJD » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:28 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Well, in some way, he is; It's obvious that he didn't know shit and that the real culprits behind this situation are SEELE - Asuka is fighting them after all, and putting her life on the line for that.
But SEELE has taken the cheap way out and Gendo's in a cave somewhere; They're not where Asuka can kick and punch them, and she's got a lifetime's worth of wrath in her.

He's just the hate sink/"unwitting instigator of doom"/getting wildly passive-agressive-ed at.
That doesn't mean they don't loathe him, there's such a thing as "dark grey".
It's not like WILLE doesn't know he doesn't know shit, it's that the world has gone so shit that even they no longer care (except for Sakura), and they're the good guys. The heroes. The last stand against the darkness. They're the best that's left in that desert... everyone else must be cannibalizing each other or something.

I know you probably mean that a little differently, but what speaks against that is that she's capable of a bit of... not really happiness but positive confidence when she starts EVA 02 against the NS - I'm the last person to construct that into her being totally happy go lucky out of the plug, but those corners of her mouth were, however briefly, pointing up - Being near Shinji seems to add to her regular level of pissed-ness, not that is is low.


Right, but then if Shinji is simply the outlet for her anger can we really say she hates him? I agree that she's angrier around Shinji, but is that because she hates Shinji or is it because she hates what Shinji reminds her of? We all know where I'm going with that but it needn't go that far. Maybe she hasn't come to accept that her previous life is lost forever as much as she thought she had, and the sudden arrival of Shinji causes all that anger at being robbed of her youth, her friends, the world, everything but her life, to come boiling back to the surface. And now every time she sees him she's reminded of the things she can never have again.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I haven't seen the relevant bit for awhile now, but as I recall she is talking about Gendo there, not Shinji.


Correct.

like most people Shikinami's motives are probably a mix of a bunch of different things, with her feelings for Shinji being likewise complex.


Agreed, and I think simplifying it down to "She hates him" doesn't do it justice.
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Postby LightDragonman » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:52 pm

It's reminesent of Asuka's last thoughts before her "fall" in the series. That Shinji wouldn't come help her when her mind was being violated, but he would run off to save Rei from the Angel trying to merge with her. Difference was in the series it was out of Shinji's hands (because Eva 01 was sealed away and only unsealed to help Rei, so it was Gendo's choice and not Shinji's) but in Rebuild Shinji really did choose not to help her, but did choose to help Rei.


Boy, talk about jealousy issues if that's the case. -o-;

I mean, she was perfectly fine with letting her be with Shinji at the beginning, but then again, 14 years will change you. That said, I expect more from her due to those 14 years, and her interactions with Rei before should have at least clued her in that Rei is more than just an unfeeling clone, regardless of any later replacements.
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Postby Stillborn » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:15 pm

Hate no. To hate something, you must feel strongly about it. Shinji have no enough meaning for her to hate. Irritate as an obstacle or a burden, yes. Contempt, yes. But not hate.

Her returning for Shinji stems from her professionalism to secure potentially valuable resource. Her kicking Shinji in plug does not stem from hate, but from irritation, one would show towards troublesome object that will burden you, and one you would like to leave but can't, because "bigger picture" and others may need that thing.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:20 pm

View Original PostJimbob wrote:I think it has to with Rei honestly.


Still being jealous about some crush from your childhood makes just as little, if not less sense than still clinging to the childhood crush itself;

I doubt Asuka would really mind that he didn't wreck the fucking planet for her; She's an adult now, she's able to see it as such, and wouldn't see anything worth being jealous of about it, after all, she's a victim of this catastrophe.
Half her lines are "This world has no time for such bullshit".
If she had such feelings, she would have taken a jab at Rei when Shinji asked about her.

Not to mention that he did a rather similar God Mode thing for her during Operation US - She was shocked, and there's no sighn that she saw it as something worth being grateful for anywhere in the movie. (see my above post for demonstratory screenshot of her terror, even if it's only half effective without the moving eye sparkles)

I never thought I would ever say this, but you're really giving Asuka far too little credit here. She is a "professional soldier or mercenary" now. The instruction comes from the boss guy himself. She's no longer obsessed with a lot of things she used to be obsessed with (In case it wasn't damn obvious already), has become someone concerned with serious business, and heck, wasn't she on the way of making peace with Rei back in 2.0?

I think she was very much aware that she isn't an unfeeling doll ever since the elevator scene.

If she still had a complex about Rei, she wouldn't talk to ReiQ the way she did (as a generic enemy she was personally meh about - She didn't even make a snarky comment about taking her with her, even if she's technically a prisoner. )
It probably helped that, while she no longer disliked Rei, she also didn't worship the ground she walked on and didn't know her as well as Shinji/ didn't owe her life to her and have mysterious connections with some "past self" her like Mari. That probably enabled her to be the one to finally set ReiQ into motion.
This has the potential to become an interesting relationship, really, with Asuka being some nonchalant, but "meh, why not?" kind of Mentor for ReiQ.


We don't get suffiecient material on Asuka in that respect, but at least Misato seems to view the "initial" Rei with less callousness than the occassional clone WILLE will destroy like a piece of equiptment - Rei still merits an usual deah euphemist like "She is gone", as well as being referred to by a proper name, she says that ReiQ "is not her", so far, what little we get is that the defected NERV personel seem to consider her a fallen comerade, or at least differentiate between her and the other clones.

SPOILER: Show
That Shinji wouldn't come help her when her mind was being violated, but he would run off to save Rei from the Angel trying to merge with her.


She was talking about Gendo cancelling the cryostasis order.
Shinji was very much willing to engage Arael, even as he saw how it made Asuka scream her lungs out - Gendo told him to stay, and he did have a point there; A psychic attack would have Shinji on his knees very fast, and do you really want to give the angel access to an EVA with a history of getting out of control and no more power cable?
It was really the worst possible enemy for Shinji and Unit one.

There is, of course, also the factor that unlike Rei, Asuka is just a disposable goon in the shemes of Gendo and SEELE; This line goes way deeper than simple jealousy, I don't think she even cared about that anymore at that point. Asuka's plot was basically that of a naive girl shattering upon the harsh and unfair rocks of reality; She worked hard, (eventually to the point of burnout) but outside factors, unfair factors rendered it all moot - She told herself she was this super special elite person, but at least in the sheme of EVAs Angels and SoLs, she was ultimately just a goon who had been exploited

I don't 100% agree with Bagheera's presentation here, but he's got one thing right: NERV works their tools untill they break. They even have goddamn replacements.

Her Q incarnation is nothing like that - She knows about the plots now ("Dirty Seele tactics!") and is actively trying to thwart them, she's refusing to be their chess piece. (Hence, "WILLE". )In some ways, she has embraced her true nature. Not the elite she wants to be, but boy, she IS a warrior.
Sure, her actions are still "according to Keikaku", but whose aren't? The fact that they didn't suceed doesn't make her (or Shinji's) struggles and feelings meaningless or devoid of value. (At least, that's what I tell myself so I can recover from and find beauty in this impossibly bleak movie)

Not that her series!self could help basically being a teenager whom nobody told anything, not much unlike Shinji (either version) or... basically all pilots except Mari.

---

Again, ppl, where in 2.0 does this unbreakable, all-withstanding bond supposedly form there?

The timeskip is most of Asuka's life now;
When do you start remembering things? Three? Five?
She's been a mercenary fighter in a hopeless War against SEELE in an apocalyptic Wasteland longer than she has been anything else; Take a good look at pre!timeskip Misato and Kaji, and how Second Impact affected, even defined their lives - Asuka was their age when NTI struck.
Last edited by Kendrix on Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
Todo list:
- Essay on the character's roles in each others introspec sequences
- Good faith Analysis of Mari
- Finish ep 8 commentary

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:25 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:The timeskip is most of Asuka's life now;
When do you start remembering things? Three? Five?
She's been a mercenary fighter in a hopeless War against SEELE in an apocalyptic Wasteland longer than she has been anything else;

You will discover in due course that one's feelings about past life and events are actually not proportional to time in the way that you imply.
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Postby Jimbob » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:25 pm

Well if thats the case then just about everything went over my head.

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:36 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:You will discover in due course that one's feelings about past life and events are actually not proportional to time in the way that you imply.


Sure, the formative years are called that way for a reason, but what about ages 14 to 20?
Again, Misato and Kaji. Sure, her parent's disfunctional relationship still played a huge part in Misato's problems, but that didn't exactly mitigate the whole SI thing...


View Original PostStillborn wrote:Hate no. To hate something, you must feel strongly about it. Shinji have no enough meaning for her to hate. Irritate as an obstacle or a burden, yes. Contempt, yes. But not hate.

Her returning for Shinji stems from her professionalism to secure potentially valuable resource. Her kicking Shinji in plug does not stem from hate, but from irritation, one would show towards troublesome object that will burden you, and one you would like to leave but can't, because "bigger picture" and others may need that thing.


For your particular definition/distinction between "hate" and contempt", hm, maybe.
I completely agree with the last paragraph, but there IS a "personal" factor here. ("Do something, stupid Shinji!" [after all, this is all your fault], VERY deliberate venting that went beyond anything even the other WILLE members (except maybe Midori) did, her insistence on insulting him personally, the way she postured over the opened plug after finding him..)

Well if thats the case then just about everything went over my head.


You must always respect someone who's willing to admit a misunderstanding instead of remaining stubborn for the heck of it :)

You'll probably notice LOTS of things you never noticed/thought about if you stay here and see what the collective effort of the ppl on this site has brought forth - it was the same for many of us.

But neither Q!Asuka nor that ep 23 moment were really about romantic jealousy.
Last edited by Kendrix on Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
Todo list:
- Essay on the character's roles in each others introspec sequences
- Good faith Analysis of Mari
- Finish ep 8 commentary


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