Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby Th3Marauder » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:44 am

The answer: Pfft, I dunno. Let's have a look.

Image
Here's one of two times we clearly (as in freaking barely!) see what it is. Hmm...

Image
Messing with the brightness and contrast show us this... thing. Lots of crosses and seemingly, while lost in the detail here, some kind of sphere like structure inside it. The Chamber of Guf itself?

Image
When the Fourth Impact is averted by... someone, somehow... we get this shot of the Doors closing. It's a bit dark though.

Image
Ahh, much better. I'm sure I could do a less awful job when I get the Blu-Ray, but in the mean time, we have this.

So is it Guf itself? A seed of life? A "moon"?

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:05 am

There is already a topic about the Impacts were the weird things behind the Door of Guf was discussed, although your images could be an handy addition.

Go right [s]here[/s]. [See this post. Keep posting in this topic. - Monk]
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Postby Giji Shinka » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:47 am

IMO I think that the object is "space ship" that Gendo and Kozo were using at the end of Q.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:16 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovum

That's what I think it's supposed to be (hey, look at what Wunder really is...)
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:38 pm

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovum

That's what I think it's supposed to be (hey, look at what Wunder really is...)


Either that, or it's meant to evoke a plain old solar eclipse (and otherwise blue sky does turn dark), except weirder and scarier, and with more crosses.

The funny thing is that both the outer layer of the sun that forms the shiny ring seen in eclipses, and the membrane around the ovum are called a "corona" (radiata), which comes with the bonus implications of the latin word origins ( "Crown"... for the "King of the Lillim"?) and the fact that there is a layer in the brain that is also called "corona radiata".
There's also, of course, the Nine Inch Nails song by the same title. XD
That is enough for me to provisorily lable the Object "The Corona" in my headcanon.


Personally, I find something inherently scaey about the fact that something can be glimpsed
beyond the "doors" at all... It's like realizing that something horrible but impossible might in fact be real.
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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:40 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:There is already a topic about the Impacts were the weird things behind the Door of Guf was discussed, although your images could be an handy addition.

Go right here.

The more specific and therefore correct topic is OMF's "Gone to Guf. Back for Final. -- Love Gen & Fuyu". I might merge it in later, but I also feel like even that would not be correct because that topic sets the stage by positing a very particular interpretation even right in its title and is therefore more like one of those "I have a theory, here it is" topics that pop up from time to time rather than a neutral discussion topic.

I'll decide on any possible mergings later, so instead for now people should feel free to keep posting here.
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Postby Dream » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:09 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Personally, I find something inherently scaey about the fact that something can be glimpsed
beyond the "doors" at all... It's like realizing that something horrible but impossible might in fact be real.


Oh boy, i can see i will have nightmares tonight.
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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:40 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Personally, I find something inherently scaey about the fact that something can be glimpsed
beyond the "doors" at all... It's like realizing that something horrible but impossible might in fact be real.

Yeah, I got that feeling too : since EoE that whole "Door/Chamber of Guf" business was very abstract, just a throwaway line by Kozo in EoE and you were too occupied by the fact that a continent-sized naked Rei grew a vagina on her forehead to absorb EVA-01 and start to tang the world to really pay attention.
And said "door" were two more vaginae in her palms...

Then in Rebuild the terms appear again, and this time you get to see a glimpse of what's behind the door, into the famous Chamber... and HOLY SHIT THERE IS SOMETHING INSIDE!
Suddenly the Chamber of Guf stops to being an abstract concept and becomes far more tangible, and you realize that it's possible that Gendo and Kozo reached that place during 4I, and that Gendo still had the key of N, which could be a "fossilized" ADAM... :bigeyes:

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Re: Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby wiser3754 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:52 am

View Original PostTh3Marauder wrote:The answer: Pfft, I dunno. Let's have a look.


Here's one of two times we clearly (as in freaking barely!) see what it is. Hmm...


Messing with the brightness and contrast show us this... thing. Lots of crosses and seemingly, while lost in the detail here, some kind of sphere like structure inside it. The Chamber of Guf itself?


When the Fourth Impact is averted by... someone, somehow... we get this shot of the Doors closing. It's a bit dark though.


Ahh, much better. I'm sure I could do a less awful job when I get the Blu-Ray, but in the mean time, we have this.

So is it Guf itself? A seed of life? A "moon"?


Ah yes the Door of Guf, 4 crosses and a sphere, seen at 2nd impact and of course at 4th impact for the "Opening Ceremony/Ritual", in the very centre at a high altitude of a massive, full spectrum vortex.

Now lets look at N3I, a small vortex, operating at a low altitude with only binary colours. And the sphere/structure at it's centre is . . . . huh? Oh that's right, because the DOOR WAS NEVER OPENED AT N3I OR MENTIONED BY RITSUKO DURING N3I's BEGGINING!! Answer that Kaworu!
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Re: Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby Reichu » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:32 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:the DOOR WAS NEVER OPENED AT N3I OR MENTIONED BY RITSUKO DURING N3I's BEGGINING!! Answer that Kaworu!

It's mentioned in the 2.0 storyboards as "Door of Balal", apparently revised to "Door of Guf" as of 3.0. I wouldn't assume a conspiracy theory just yet. (Also note that according to these same storyboards, what's considered the "Door" is the black space, not the rings around it.)
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Re: Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby wiser3754 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:37 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:It's mentioned in the 2.0 storyboards as "Door of Balal", apparently revised to "Door of Guf" as of 3.0. I wouldn't assume a conspiracy theory just yet. (Also note that according to these same storyboards, what's considered the "Door" is the black space, not the rings around it.)


Then please explain why a sphere and four crosses appear at both 2nd and 4th Impact inflicting far greater damage to the world next to Shinji's 20 sec+ party trick?
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Re: Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby UrsusArctos » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:23 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Then please explain why a sphere and four crosses appear at both 2nd and 4th Impact inflicting far greater damage to the world next to Shinji's 20 sec+ party trick?


What do you mean by "explain"? She's not Hideaki Anno.

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Re: Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby Reichu » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:19 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Then please explain why a sphere and four crosses appear at both 2nd and 4th Impact inflicting far greater damage to the world next to Shinji's 20 sec+ party trick?

You want to fanwank an explanation, be my guest. There have been attempts to make sense of the differences between the Impacts in the threads mentioned upstream, I believe.

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:Door of Balal?

I dunno, lol.
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Re: Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby Alpha » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:I dunno, lol.


... So Doors of Confusion? Seems legit. They bring nothing to confusion every time they are adressed, since they are so different compared to the others.

Oh, Anno, you :lol:
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:13 am

Possibly the Door that is opened each time is considered a different Door, hence the differences in effect each one produces? That might explain the differences between the "doors" seen at 3I, 4I, and the door-like vortex at 2I and the Eva-04 test site.
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Postby hui43210 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:24 am

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Re: Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:I dunno, lol.

Two theories :

1/ It was first called Door of Balal in the script, and was retconed "Door of Guf" for 3.0.(but then why give to N3I's vortex another name since the Guf was already used in EoE?)

2/ Kaworu was telling an half-truth to Shinji, and was actually referring to another event, a proper Third Impact that opened the Door of Guf(represented by a multicolored vortex), which happened after Shinji's N3I which opened the "Door of Balal"(represented by a bi-colored vortex).
The flash-back of EVA-01 opening a vortex then represents what Shinji thinks Kaworu is talking about, when he tried to save Rei from Zeruel(that would ties very well with the movie's direction of squeezing the audience's POV into Shinji's as much as possible very well)

In short : fuck it, I give up. :tongue:
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Re: Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby Reichu » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:04 am

View Original PostAlpha wrote:... So Doors of Confusion?

I thought the "mingling" definition seemed a bit more promising, myself.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:The flash-back of EVA-01 opening a vortex then represents what Shinji thinks Kaworu is talking about, when he tried to save Rei from Zeruel(that would ties very well with the movie's direction of squeezing the audience's POV into Shinji's as much as possible very well):

But supposedly Shinji had no idea that a giant, impossible-to-miss black void opened up over Eva-01's head, so, unless he actually knew about that all along and is just feigning ignorance, the "flashback" clips do not represent Shinji's "viewpoint" in any way, but are instead there for the audience's benefit, to illustrate what Kaworu is ostensibly talking about.
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Re: Whaaaaats behind Doors of Guf number 2!? [cue lights]

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:31 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:But supposedly Shinji had no idea that a giant, impossible-to-miss black void opened up over Eva-01's head, so, unless he actually knew about that all along and is just feigning ignorance, the "flashback" clips do not represent Shinji's "viewpoint" in any way, but are instead there for the audience's benefit, to illustrate what Kaworu is ostensibly talking about.

... unless it's a trick to make the audience believe that this is what Kaworu was talking about via a representation of the moment Shinji thinks Kaworu is talking about, when he saved Rei! :psyduck:


More seriously, we obviously don't have enough information to go beyond mere fanwankery, at least until the CRC and FINAL arrives.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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Postby Reichu » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:56 am

Actually taking the dialogue into account, I don't see a problem.

{Kaworu} Ikari Shinji-kun,
{Kaworu} once Awakened, Eva-01 opened the Door of Guf
{Kaworu} and became the trigger for Third Impact.
{Kaworu} Lilin call it Near Third Impact.

Kaworu specifies "once awakened" (ichido mezame shi) and that he is referring to Near Third Impact, hence the flashback visuals match up. The only enigmatic part is how Eva-01 became the trigger for Third Impact proper as a result of the aborted N3I.
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