The Evangelion of Video Games?

Discussions about non-Evangelion related video games, board games, card games and gaming in general.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:26 pm

I'd say both the Metal Gear Solid series and Xenogears.

The
For those who haven't played both  SPOILER: Show
far distant prequel
Xenosaga series is weird but it's not as convoluted as Xenogears (provided you pay attention).
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Postby SimplyMason0 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:32 pm

@Final Fantasy
Good choice actually. In fact, thats fit Eva's style best. It dose fit the whole wannabe hero and repression not seen in most games. Cloud really caught me off guard. The spin offs ruined his image really.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:44 pm

View Original PostSimplyMason0 wrote:@Final Fantasy
Good choice actually. In fact, thats fit Eva's style best. It dose fit the whole wannabe hero and repression not seen in most games. Cloud really caught me off guard. The spin offs ruined his image really.


In terms of impact, I suppose Final Fantasy does fit the bill. But in terms of trippy-ness, mindfuck and psychoanalysis, nothing does the job like Silent Hill
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:47 pm

FF7 is a good choice (it was my first RPG and still one of my favorites) though having played through FF6-9, I think 7 is somewhat overhyped. I've played Crisis Core and watched Advent Children/Complete and loved both stories.

SimplyMason0: According to the staff, Zack's story was "cooking for 10 years", so that aspect wasn't anything forced, at least. I think Cloud's weak moments (and overcoming them) in the original and spinoffs showed just how heroic he really is.
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Postby NemZ » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Actually as much as I disagree with Atropos mention of Chrono Cross just on general principle, the review he linked did lead me to a fantastic series of posts about the much better original Chrono Trigger, specifically exploring it as an existentialist work.

As relates to this topic, the character of Frog isn't a terribly bad match for Shinji.
  • Begins as a pacifist, willing to take a beating rather than causing harm to another
  • Depressive and fatalistic when you first meet him, carrying on the job of a fallen comrade because he doesn't know what else to do with his life
  • Naturally very skilled but doesn't have faith in himself without external symbols
  • Learns over the course of the game that his strength comes not from legendary equipment he carries but from his own will to action and the choices he makes. The sword is only as strong as his will to wield it.
  • His final line of dialog before the last boss (forgive the forced accent): "My life retain'eth its meaning...! We haveth our own will!"

Magus makes a fairly decent commentary on Gendo as well. A broken man marked by tragedy who uses and manipulates everyone around him, is intensely isolated from others, and who is willing to throw away all emotion and ethical boundries in a bid to get back the woman he lost long ago... and ultimately he fails in this quest.
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Postby Quiddity » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:15 pm

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:Xenogears, start to finish, never had any of the same impact on me as Evangelion, or even other games I would fall far short of calling "the Evangelion of video games". I beat it only a few years ago and yet I struggle even to remember several characters' names. I don't find it as worthy of analysis or interpretation, either. I really don't want to know its deep secrets, but that likely goes back to the part where I never became emotionally invested in the characters. It's not the lack of voice-acting or anything like that either -- the exact same happened to me with Xenosaga, which I recently beat and have had no interest in seeing the sequels of.


I felt the exact opposite, I find the plot of Xenogears to be better than Eva's, the characters better, and in fact I was a bit disappointed that Eva wasn't as good as Xenogears when I saw Eva for the first time, since at that time practically all I had heard about Eva and Xenogears was that Xenogears was a ripoff of Eva (which I believe to be utter bullshit).

Speaking from a plot standpoint of course, gameplay-wise Xenogears has huge flaws.
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Postby SimplyMason0 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:29 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:SimplyMason0: According to the staff, Zack's story was "cooking for 10 years", so that aspect wasn't anything forced, at least. I think Cloud's weak moments (and overcoming them) in the original and spinoffs showed just how heroic he really is.


Crisis Core was true to the original. I kinda like how they implied that Cloud was partly wrong on Zack's character. Cloud acted cold when Zack was really a happy person going though a hard time.

The main problems I have are the Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts stuff that made him all mopey and uninteresting which I think did change my view on FF7. Mid way in the game however really caught me by surprise and Cloud ended up being one of my favorite game characters without the only reason being "Big ass sword"

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Postby Alaska Slim » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:29 am

Ever17. Because Coco is clearly the Yandere-in-the-making take on Rei.

SPOILER: Show
For the literal player. Also, isn't eery how they both now, thanks to rebuild, include people whom are older than they look?
BTW, I had no idea this was a thing on /a/. That's just an unexpected bonus from playing the darn thing.

Anyway, Runner up was 999 due to gratuitous Christian themes and nonary SYMBOLISM!!!1!1!1! (and a melancholic ost) But then again the protagonist and main squeeze are too upbeat (though the latter may be part in farce), and it's a bit disconcerting how you can do this with the explosive redhead of the franchise (No, really, go ahead. 3rd bit is hard as hell. )

... Also, the creator whom I'd credit for much, to include a rather refreshing concept, is just terrible when it comes to the settei. I'd say he's one step above Hideaki Anno on the whole "explain this crap" front. It's not that he refuses to give answers, he's given plenty, it's just plenty of 'em are empty because he didn't bother to think those details up, to include the name of one of the main characters. He also explains too much by saying "Because that's how zero saw it happen". LAZY... But what do you expect with a guy who appears to have the same writing process as M. Night Shyamalan?

I will give it this though, you do have to wrack your brain deciding if the plot made sense. I decided it does, just that the author got his maths wrong. Which he kind of admitted...
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:04 am

I would like to give an honourable mention to Dear Esther as being an Evangelion-esque game (minus the action) because it includes large amounts of symbolism, ranging from religious symbolism to scientific references, which can be both obvious and subtle. The game also involves deep exploration of the psyche of the main character through the narrator's monologues, in a similar fashion to the monologues of some of the Evangelion characters (particularly Shinji). The game also gets progressively trippy-er as you progress.

Another similarity between the Dear Esther and Evangelion is the inclusion of an ambiguous ending that can be interpreted as good or bad by the audience but does have some positive elements.

The game has a fairly awesome OST as well, with certain tracks reflecting melancholy and isolation while others produce a more positive or uplifting feeling.
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Postby hui43210 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:37 pm

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:In terms of impact, I suppose Final Fantasy does fit the bill. But in terms of trippy-ness, mindfuck and psychoanalysis, nothing does the job like Silent Hill


I don't know, FF7 has a good moment or 2 of some sweet Eva style "who the fuck am I" kinda headspace sequences. The part where Cloud and Tifa fall into the Lifestream comes to mind. The ending is also kinda ambiguous and open-ended like ep 26 or EoE if I recall, but not in the same vain.
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Postby NIkkolas » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:02 am

A bit of trivia - Xenogears started off as Final Fantasy VII, which is probably why VII's hero is so completely different from every other FF protagonist. And as good as he was, Cloud and his journey fo self-discovery is kind of just a pale imitation of Fei.

Xenogears and EVA are falsely compared is the opinion of my friend who is far more informed on both topics than I am. He tells me Eva is far more centered on the characters and their issues, in contrast to Xenogears which has a positively massive world history and narrative.

I guess though you could say Xenogears is the Eva of games because it was the first of its kinda in many ways. The blending of so many themes, be they psychological or religious or spiritual, was something very new in gaming at the time.

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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:57 am

Call this just me still riding the high of the game I just finished, but I'm just gonna put the name of To the Moon out there. :hahaha: It has that whole character focus appeal, the misunderstandings and distance between people, tragedy and loss and mixed feelings, thought-provoking, that kinda stuff, and, to one-up a famous aspect of Eva, nearly all of it takes place in someone's head! :lol: Furthermore, it actually engaged my emotions in a way that no actual watching of Eva ever did (Eva has always appealed to me intellectually before emotionally, which I should note is for the better in general). It also stars a character named Eva, so huzzah!

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Xenosaga series is weird but it's not as convoluted as Xenogears (provided you pay attention).

Spoiler related to the spoiler in SSD's post  SPOILER: Show

Wait, it actually is a prequel? Like, not just spiritually, but actually? I thought Xenosaga was made as it was because of copyright issues and so they could not actually make a game set in the same continuity, or something like that. Was that just an inaccurate rumor or a red herring or something?
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:34 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote: It has that whole character focus appeal, the misunderstandings and distance between people, tragedy and loss and mixed feelings, thought-provoking, that kinda stuff, and, to one-up a famous aspect of Eva, nearly all of it takes place in someone's head!


Silent Hill: Shattered Memories had a similar concept. There is some debate over whether what you see in the Silent Hill games is reality, or an elaborate hallucination/introspective journey in the protagonist's imagination. Dear Esther also has a few in-head sequences which can be as trippy as the ones in Evangelion (and take place underwater as well, to boot).
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Postby Katana » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:46 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Metal Gear Solid
Wat.
Also Darkstalkers has some references/inspirations about EVA and instrumentality. Jedah Dohma wants to merge all the souls in a single life being to become a God. Lilith Aensland looks so close to Rei she could have cosplayed her in one of her win poses.

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Postby Redtophat » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:58 am

It has to be either Xenogears or MGS 2.

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Postby Katana » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:04 am

View Original PostJune wrote:It has to be either Xenogears or MGS 2.
I'm not gonna fall for it again. If you're intentionally trolling get bent.

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Postby SimplyMason0 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:52 am

The reason MGS2 is considered the Eva to most people for its "meme" theme about repeating sequels, expectations and the media controlling ones tastes. Stuff like MGS4 wasn't ment to be made and had to be taking in face value.

For the one who said MGS1, I think its because it changed the industry and oddly, being the best to do cinematic games properly with a well written plot that can't be beat by games coming after it.

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Postby Katana » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:59 am

View Original PostSimplyMason0 wrote:The reason MGS2 is considered the Eva to most people for its "meme" theme about repeating sequels, expectations and the media controlling ones tastes. Stuff like MGS4 wasn't ment to be made and had to be taking in face value.
I played almost every MGS game and I can tell it's just too overhyped from pitiful Sony fanboys. Sure it had some tragic sequences and whatnot but if you're talking about the stealth gameplay Splinter Cell owns every MGS. Also it has nothing to share with EVA, m8.

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Postby SimplyMason0 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:08 am

The stealth is mostly action based, thats true but the story in MGS2 really dose have some mindscrew into it. People just didn't get it like the people who didn't like Eva. Its there, just not in the way Eva dose it. The whole Raiden being the protagonist wasn't just for trolling.

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Postby Katana » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:14 am

View Original PostSimplyMason0 wrote:The stealth is mostly action based, thats true but the story in MGS2 really dose have some mindscrew into it. People just didn't get it like the people who didn't like Eva. Its there, just not in the way Eva dose it. The whole Raiden being the protagonist wasn't just for trolling.
I actually liked EVA until the end, but because it had some damn good reasons. The entire MGS2 storyline and the terrible bosses along with the last sword fight being the worst one look like a huge clownery.


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