Rebuild of Evangelion 1-3: Adams and other Speculation

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Rebuild of Evangelion 1-3: Adams and other Speculation

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Postby marclee615 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:41 pm

Hi Everybody,

I have just finished watching the series again.
And here are some of my observation:

Adams:
In 2.0, four adams are shown in memory in which the right most one has 3 eyes.
My Prediction is that those adams are:

1. EVA-01 - it is "awaken" into pesudo-form in the end of 2.0 and possessed a third eye (like the one in memory

2. Mark.06 - it is the Adam (and its Spear), carried by the geyser to the Moon during 2i

3. EVA-13 - it is "awaken" at the end of 3.0, just like EVA-01

4. Mark.09 - it is called the "Adam's" vessel for quite a few times. I believe the core element has been removed in which the core element is the Nebuchadnezzar's Key.



Ritsato's cat figures:
In the tv series, she has one white and one black cat
In the rebuild, two cats are black

It may imply that in rebuild she has no affection over Gendo but of Misato(?)

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Postby Th3Marauder » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:37 am

I don't know about Unit-01 being an Adam, considering that the bottom half of Lilith is still missing in Rebuild.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:16 am

View Original PostTh3Marauder wrote:I don't know about Unit-01 being an Adam, considering that the bottom half of Lilith is still missing in Rebuild.

We'll have to wait 4.0 to see if it's one of four Adams. If we don't get confirmation, then we can assume that it is, and that Lilith's legs were removed/cut so that it wouldn't escape somehow. (Or it's legs were used to create other Eva units: 00, 02, 03, 04, 05, 07, 08, 10, 11, 12)
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Postby Sachi » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:27 pm

Now that Lilith is dead, I wouldn't be surprised to see Unit-01 reveal itself to be Lilith-reincarnate once again and then pull some world-restoring bullshit as the crux of Final Impact. I do like the idea that Mark 06 and 09, as well as maybe Unit-13, are the embodied Adams.
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Postby Azathoth » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:08 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:Now that Lilith is dead, I wouldn't be surprised to see Unit-01 reveal itself to be Lilith-reincarnate once again and then pull some world-restoring bullshit as the crux of Final Impact. I do like the idea that Mark 06 and 09, as well as maybe Unit-13, are the embodied Adams.


Why Unit 13? Its resemblance to Unit 01, and gross birth, seem to imply that it's something made by Nerv from Lilith - but then again, the powers it demonstrates are so perplexing that I'm not sure what to make of its nature. (I still have no clue why Mari's AP rounds phase through it, for example.)
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:30 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Why Unit 13? Its resemblance to Unit 01, and gross birth, seem to imply that it's something made by Nerv from Lilith - but then again, the powers it demonstrates are so perplexing that I'm not sure what to make of its nature. (I still have no clue why Mari's AP rounds phase through it, for example.)

Mari explicitly said that EVA-13 is one of the surviving ADAMs, that it's one of the four ones present during 2I is one of the few things we are absolutely sure about the ADAMs.

Since Mark.06 was a giant buried in the Moon with a Lance of Cassius, it's implied that it was one of the four too, but we are not sure about this one.

As for EVA-01, the biggest hint that it could also be one of the four ADAMs is the fact that Gendo and Ritsuko implies that it's a special unit compared to the Prototype and Production Models, and mostly the fact that it seems to grown a third glowing eye when it assume it's Radiant Giant form.

But personally i don't by it for two reasons :
- first the CRC reveal that the glowing point we see when assumes this form are chakra points, and the last one is at the crown of the head, where the "third eye" is supposed to be
- second in the concept art and in the poster for the Eva Exhibit in Japan the "third eye" is represented as a big circle very different from the slit of the two eyes, supporting the theory that it's actually the Crown Chakra and not a third eye :

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Postby Azathoth » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:42 pm

Oh, right. Jesus, is there anything in this movie that Mari DOESN'T claim is some Adamic shit trying to fuck with her? Also, why would one of the Adams not have an AT field? And why is it being constructed (armored? processed? confined?) inside a gigantic artificial womb?
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:11 pm

Well, apparently not having an AT Field = being of the ADAMs. And Mari seemed pretty sure of herself when she deduced that EVA-13 was one of the four.

As for Mark.09, it too didn't showed any use of an AT Field and seems to compensate this lack by its insane resilience and regenerative capabilities, which seems to brand it as the "ADAM's Vessel", the logic is probably that the fact it can continue to function even beheqded could only mean that it's whole body is a core.

So full-body core + lack of AT Field = ADAM's Vessel
And lack of AT Field + used as a tool for an Impact = one of the four ADAMs

On a side note, logically that would mean that Mark.06 didn't had an AT Field either, that could explain how the 12 Angel could possesses it, since in NGE an strong enough AT Field could stop Armisael.

As for why EVA-13 was inside a pod, we don't know the specifics of the construction and outfitting of an Evangelion, maybe the body must be in a sterile environment for the armoring, and the pod provided such environment. As for Mark.06, the problem didn't arise since it was in the Noon, in the vacuum of space.
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Postby Ah Q » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:15 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Oh, right. Jesus, is there anything in this movie that Mari DOESN'T claim is some Adamic shit trying to fuck with her? Also, why would one of the Adams not have an AT field? And why is it being constructed (armored? processed? confined?) inside a gigantic artificial womb?


This is what leads me to believe that Eva-13 was "constructed" from the Key of Nebuchadnezzar."

As for Eva-13 being one of the "surviving Adams," I was under the impression that the literal translation was "Adams' survivor." I am not familiar with the Japanese, but I wonder if we have been interpreting that line correctly.

ETA: My point is that there may be some wiggle room to argue that Eva-13 is not one of the original Adams, but merely a "survivor" -- something derived from the original Adams, but not an original Adam itself.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:25 pm

Well, Gendo is seen at various points in Q with the armored case containing the Key, so unlike it can make grow as many Evangelion from that little thing that he wants, I don't think that EVA-13 was made from it.

But it's possible that the Key is one of the four ADAMs reduced to a "skeletal" state, like ADAM in NGE was reduced to an embryo.(Kaji calls the Key "the Missing Number" in 2.0 after all), that would mean that so far the four ADAMS would be :
- Mark.06 : was buried in the Moon alongside a Spear, and Kaworu's coffins were just beside it, and he is the First Angel.
- EVA-13 : designed as such by Mari
- The Key of N : reduced to an easily transportable size ias a contingency plan if something happen with the other?
- ??? : EVA-01? Mark.09? Was destroyed during 2I? Maybe it was transformed into an Evangelion and destroyed by WILLE during the time skip?
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Postby Jinroh » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:45 am

Again, I don't agree with Eva 01 potentially being an Adam. It has an AT-field, and Lilith is missing its legs. There's no conspiracy here, 99% chances it's similar to the old series.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:49 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:Again, I don't agree with Eva 01 potentially being an Adam. It has an AT-field, and Lilith is missing its legs. There's no conspiracy here, 99% chances it's similar to the old series.

Yeap, i've started to think the same thing as you recently.
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Postby Th3Marauder » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:20 am

As for why Eva 13 (have we decided yet if it's just Evangelion 13 or Unit-13) not having an AT Field, I thought it was made pretty clear by Asuka in EoE that an AT Field is the result of a resident soul in the Eva, as in Yui or Asuka's mum or Rei I. The reason the Adams have no AT Fields is because they have no resident souls.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:37 am

We don't know if the rule of a resident soul which must in an Eva to be piloted is still true in NTE, after all we saw Asuka getting ready to pilot EVA-03 and Mari happily going from one Eva to another, so it's possible that the ADAMs simply can't generate an AT Field for whatever reason, even thought their offspring the Angels can do it.
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Postby Giji Shinka » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:28 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:We don't know if the rule of a resident soul which must in an Eva to be piloted is still true in NTE, after all we saw Asuka getting ready to pilot EVA-03 and Mari happily going from one Eva to another, so it's possible that the ADAMs simply can't generate an AT Field for whatever reason, even thought their offspring the Angels can do it.

What if the reason why Adams don't have an A.T field and why angels do is the fact that the moments when angels were born at the 2nd impact event site, Adams "shared" their A.T fields and their fruit of life (Maybe A.T field is part of the fruit) to their offspring's almost completely. (For whatever reason)

That could explain why angels are needed to awaken/(attain their original form) "Adam Eva": Their fruit of life needs to return to it's original owner.(Well, apparently small part of their fruit of life and fruit of knowledge is enough to awaken them, so returning them completely isn't necessary. Also, if Seele returned all pieces of the fruit of life to a certain Adam, the alternate instrumentality wouldn't go according to their plans)

Basically angels act like fuel for Adams.

I don't know what to say about "Adam based Eva's" (Or) "Lilith based Eva's", and if they can do the same thing....
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Postby Ah Q » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:10 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Well, Gendo is seen at various points in Q with the armored case containing the Key, so unlike it can make grow as many Evangelion from that little thing that he wants, I don't think that EVA-13 was made from it.


The bizarre manner of Eva-13's construction -- incubation in a giant "womb" and subsequent birth from it -- leads me to believe that it is not simply an Adam that Nerv recovered. We don't have details on Mark 09's construction, but we caught glimpses of Mark 06's construction in 1.0 and 2.0, and it was nothing like Eva-13's birth.

Granted, there may be multiple ways to turn Adams into Evas. But I can't help but think Mari's line about Eva-13 being an "Adams' survivor" is rather cryptic. I am still not convinced it means that Eva-13 is one of the original Adams.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:28 pm

View Original PostAh Q wrote:Granted, there may be multiple ways to turn Adams into Evas. But I can't help but think Mari's line about Eva-13 being an "Adams' survivor" is rather cryptic. I am still not convinced it means that Eva-13 is one of the original Adams.

A clone of Adam?
But then we have a problem regarding other, "normal" Eva units. Whose clones they are? Lilith's? Can they do something and be called as Adam afterwards? Khhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......We need more info about Eva's in 4.0...... :raincloud:
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Postby StormSky92 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:02 pm

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:A clone of Adam?
But then we have a problem regarding other, "normal" Eva units. Whose clones they are? Lilith's? Can they do something and be called as Adam afterwards? Khhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......We need more info about Eva's in 4.0...... :raincloud:

I'm just wondering this, but I am the only one who thinks that we won't get all the answers we desire in 4.0? If the rumor that 3.0 was scrapped and completely restarted is true, then who knows if the final reveals are even the same anymore.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:02 am

It's possible, but i hope we answers about Adams cause they are related to impacts, and impacts are pretty important plot point.
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Postby Mbryo » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:58 am

What's with this notion that Adams lack AT Fields? I know it does not appply to NME, but in NGE Adam had an insanely powerful AT Field (Kaworu's AT Field which shuts off everything and creates an impassable barrier when manifested) So why would they lack one in NME?
Mark.09 and 13th clearly appears to lack AT Fields (come to think of it, not so sure about Eva-13's case, it does look like it is manifesting an AT Field when Kaworu says something about matching tempos and the Eva breaks through Lilith's barrier). And as to Mari's comments, Mari only identifies Eva 13th as being an Adam's survivor after she sees the Eva fully awaken.
And mentioning it, Mark.09 seems to be a rather special case; It is clearly not one of the Adams, for one thing it a full-body core being, something the Adams clearly are not. It seems be affiliated with the Wunder, based on the fact that it is referred to as its 'original master' and the fact that they share a similar face.
And I also disagree with the misconception Eva 01 is the Adam with the Third Eye, because during Near Third Impact Eva 01 is clearly shown to possess a core (exposed when the restraints blow off) and the Third-eyed Giant during Second Impact does not have a core. But I also think that the thing on 01's forehead IS indeed a Third Eye. In the very last shot the thing on the forehead is shown to be colored the same red color as 01's eyes.
About Eva 13, I actually believe that it was Two Adams fused into one body. In the shots when Eva 02, 08 or 09 appears in the same shot as 13th, if you look closely you can see that 13th is actually twice as big as the other Evas; its body is a lot bulkier, and it is taller. And the fact that it has two pairs of eyes and arms, and the fact that it has two halos, AND the fact it requires a double entry system (the presence of two souls needed to fully activate the Eva; when Kaworu dies, one pair of eyes close and while the Eva remains awakened, it loses its Godhood), traits that none of the Adams or Evas Impact possessed, also implies that it is two beings rather than one.
The fact that it does not exhibit an AT Field is also probably because of this as well. In NGE and NME the presence of two equal AT Fields neutralizes both; that is why when Shinji shuts off Kaworu, the Eva is no longer able to manifest an AT Field. But when Shinji and Kaworu 'match tempos', when the souls of the two pilots synchronize, the Eva becomes a one full entity and is able to manifest an AT Field, an AT Field much powerful than that of regular Evas. The RS Hoppers were added in for defense because Gendo probably guessed Kaworu was eventually going to realize whatever trick he had up his sleeves and stop cooperating.

So to sum it up my speculation is that:
Eva 01: Not one of the Adams, but probably something equal or similar; maybe Lilith's bunshin like she used to be in the series.
Mark 06: One of the Adams, got blasted up to the moon during Second Impact by a spurt of blood/red seawater. Buried until Seele dug him up and made him into an Evangelion. (to add in, I think Fuyutski's line in 2.0, about 06's construction process being weird, I think he was probably referring to the fact that while normal Evas are grown with their armors/restraints, Mark.06's 'construction' was just putting the armor on an already complete body.)
Mark.09: Not one of the Adams, but an Adam's vessel, has something to do with the Wunder. Maybe it is the core taken from Wunder and converted into an Evangelion.
Eva 13th: Two of the Adams fused into one. It was put in the womb-like thingy in order to fuse the two seperate Adams into one.
Key of Nebuchadnezzar: One of the Adams, or its remains.
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