Is Yui responsible for Asuka's death?

[Th3Marauder]

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I figured I'd ask anyway. In EoE, Shinji is supposed to get into Unit-01 to help Asuka in Unit-02 take out the MPEs. However when Shinji gets to the cage, the bakelite has made it impossible for him to reach the Eva. Then, of course, Asuka is killed by the MPEs, because Shinji wasn't there to help her. And then, after Asuka has died and the last chance to stop Third Impact is out of the way, does Unit-01/Yui awaken. My question is, knowing what we do about Yui's intentions, did she intentionally wait until after Asuka was taken care of to grab Shinji, or was it simply a matter of 'because the plot says so' storytelling?

[NemZ]

That's a very contentious issue, but yes, it has been raised before. THIS is probably the best place to go, but new discussion on old, unsettled topics is never a bad thing.

I personally waffle back and forth between two theories, both hinging on the interpretation that deep-down Shinji still didn't want to pilot again even after Misato ate a bullet and a rocket for her trouble, and knowing full-well that Asuka was out there fighting against the odds.
Option 1: Hearing that Asuka was dead finally shocked him out of it to give him the motivation to actually do something, and Yui awoke in response to this drive.
Option 2: At that point he STILL hadn't gotten his shit together, and Yui decided on her own that she'd had enough.

[Th3Marauder]

Of course we have to remember that the end result of the Third Impact was: The complete destruction of the planet, the death of all life on Earth but (initially) her son, and most importantly here, Yui herself became an unstoppable God that possessed both the Fruit of Life and the Fruit of Knowledge, along with the body of an Eva. She had the power to grant Shinji's wish to stop the good side of Instrumentality and bring the Third Impact to an end. And then she floated off into space with the broken Lance of Longinus.

All in all, I would say that Third Impact only worked out well in the end for Yui. Seele didn't get what they wanted because humanity wasn't reunited inside the Black Moon, Gendo didn't get what he wanted because in the end is was essentially Yui that killed him, and the angels most definitely didn't get what they wanted, which was the spread of Adam based life across the planet.

Really, when you look at it, 3I was all in Yui's favour.

[CJD]

Eh, I'm not convinced Yui required any pretext to exert her power, especially not with an S2 engine in her possession. She chose to wait for whatever reason, whether that was Shinji not wanting (not so) deep down inside, or Asuka's death being required for Yui's plan to come into fruition. Was she responsible? Yea, but in that secondary party way. She didn't pull the trigger but she also didn't call 911 when Asuka was bleeding on the carpet. The real question as I see it is was her neglectful action acceptable? Do the ends justify the means? That's a whole 'nother argument though.

[pwhodges]

For all the shit that Shinji's been given in Q (and by fans) for being (possibly) the cause of several impacts, I find myself bemused that Yui, who seems in some ways to have planned the whole thing and manipulated Gendou into manipulating everyone else (in the NGE continuity, if not certainly in the NTE one), gets a more-or-less free pass.

[Guy Nacks]

I guess being a MILF helps just a little.

[Th3Marauder]

For all the shit that Shinji's been given in Q (and by fans) for being (possibly) the cause of several impacts, I find myself bemused that Yui, who seems in some ways to have planned the whole thing and manipulated Gendou into manipulating everyone else (in the NGE continuity, if not certainly in the NTE one), gets a more-or-less free pass.

Considering that the implications seems to be that Unit-01 was the godhead of the Third Impact in NTE then it's pretty safe to assume Yui's still responsible. But why is that what she wanted? Was it for her son? For humanity? Or just for herself?

[Mr. Tines]

gets a more-or-less free pass.

Hence threads like these
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/6262/Once-more-with-feeling-Yui-is-an-evil-bitch/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/703/Arch-Fiend-Yui-Inevitability-of-3I/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/5186/Yui-Ikari-Sadist/

[Lelouch34]

In my opinion Shinji did have a desire to help Asuka but was still a little scared to not help at the same time. Shinji would have if he had the chance to help Asuka. Yui never gave Shinji that chance because she knew he had to lose someone he cares about to come back after instrumentality. Yui was not trying to be evil she knew things had to unfold the way they did for Asuka to die. If she didn't all of humanity would have been lost if Shinji did not lose the person he cares about. Than Shinji would not have be placed in charge of instrumentality like Yui wanted to find the will to live. Yui's plan in the end was an extreme method to save humanity and her son. Also, that Shinji would find the will to live. So in the end the result of what occurred was justified by the means that Yui used. Yui needed to resort to some drastic measures if not the results would have been much worst making her plan one meant to give everyone the chance to live as individual's, and find happiness.

[Mr. Tines]

she knew he had to lose someone he cares about

That had already happened, though:

Shinji:
Kaworu said that he loved me.
It was...
It was the first time someone told me they loved me.
He was like me, and like Ayanami.
I loved him.
Kaworu was the one who should have survived.
He was a much better person than I am.
Kaworu should have been the one to survive.

[Sachi]

Yui's best shot at hijacking and averting 3I was to become the center of it; only then would she have the ability to truly stop Seele. Unit-01 launching and aiding Unit-02 would be a quicker way to getting killed, or at best it would post-pone 3I and Yui would lose the opportunity to influence it. She waited for the dust to settle and then offered herself to the Eva series to let the ritual begin.

[peripateia]

This is going a bit off tangent but I found that Yui and Rei/Kaworu put the fate of 3I into Shinji's hands, rather than controlling its mechanics via Yui's own efforts. Fuyutski even states that the fate of mankind is in Ikari's son.

Onto Yui's culpability in Asuka's death: I didn't think that Yui was to blame at all! I got the impression that Shogouki was actually pissed off at Shinji for squatting on the floor as his friend/comrade/possible love interest desperately struggled for her life. Would activating Shogouki before Nigouki took a lance to the head have made a difference in saving Asuka? Perhaps not in the 3I ritual-but Shinji's culpability ought to be questioned rather than Yui's. Even if Asuka had to die/turn to LCL, he could have spared her a great deal of pain by choosing to act (I'm resorting to Sadamoto's Manga version of EoE as an example).

I place the responsibility/burden of action on Shinji rather than Yui, in short. Yui and Shogouki are the vessel/guardian for Shinji, who is the ultimate center of 3I/Instrumentality and who has the power to decide the fate of everyone around him.

[Chuckman]

I want to say yes, because Yui is clearly as crazy as a shithouse rat and the true villain of the piece, but I think the amount of control she has over the Eva is overestimated. Most people seem to assume that the Eva is just a limp body controlled by Yui and/or Shinji, but I think there's more to it than that, especially when the Eva goes berserk.

Would Yui really tear apart and eat another creature? The berserk Eva's feral behavior suggests to me that Yui isn't directly controlling it, per se, only that her maternal instincts are directing the hazy rage of a tortured creature that lashes out at her direction and acts on its own.

Controlling it is obviously a great struggle, as is keeping it from devouring Shinji when he tries to pilot it, otherwise we'd see more "ghost in the machine" type actions from the Eva itself.

I also doubt that Yui is particularly conscious or aware at all. My thinking, then, is that the Eva breaking free of the bakelite was a reaction to Shinji's reaction.

The thing that throws me, here, is that the Eva's eyes glow when it's going/about to go berserk, and the one time it did that outside of protecting Shinji was when he dove into the volcano to pull Asuka out.

There was also a fairly long period of time when the Eva was no longer dependent on an external power source, so lacking motive power doesn't explain why she didn't move around/act more.

It all comes down to how much awareness she has and how much control over the Eva she has. Everything we see points to very little on both counts. When it goes berserk it's not Yui in a two hundred foot tall body, it's a tortured, suffering monster that's enraged and in pain, directed by her instincts and drives.

If Yui is conscious and capable of taking control of the Eva whenever, or even when Shinji is in distress, she could have intervened during the Bardiel fight, or during the Shamshel fight, or at several other points where he desperately needed help but didn't get it. As much as I see her as a monster, I don't think she's that type of monster.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Nope. No. Nu-uh. No way. That's not the case. Never. Yui is NOT responsible for Asuka's death because I love both characters way too much to let that be the case, even though I have no control over Anno's tendencies in his script-writing.

But to be serious, I doubt Yui's consciously responsible for Asuka's death. Sure, no matter the reasons behind Unit 01 not moving until a certain point, the very fact that she moved after Asuka's death means that she's partially to blame. If she could have somehow moved a bit sooner, then she probably could have prevented that death.

But for whatever reason she remained dormant. We're just not sure what that reason is... yet.

Let's take a look at her track record, though. Shinji's life is in danger from falling debris in Episode 1, and Yui puts a hand up to save him. I'm not sure of this was the Eva "going Berserk" or not.

We know Unit 01 did "go Berserk" during Yui's first Angel fight. The Unit suddenly went nuts and started battering everything.

Then she stays quiet until Episode 16. Her soul literally reaches out to Shinji, which seems to be capable of finer, more nuanced movements than her control over the Unit. We know this because after that soft and gentle touch from the soul, the Unit goes Berserk and get busy shredding things! All of the things! The weird sphere and even the black ground are all torn up and bloody. It was glorious!

The Dummy Plug is inserted in Episode 18, and it seems to have just about as much control over Unit 01 as Yui did. All it did was smash things, Hulk-style. The fight was made up of big, simple movements with very little sense of control, nuanced motor skills, or anything like that. It was just broad-stroked bashing all over the place.

Then Episode 19 happens and it's back to more Yui-smashing! And eating. Grossly awesome! But still broad and simplistic in her movements.

See, whenever I try to imagine what Yui's thinking in order to control the Unit during the "going Berserk" moments it seems to be simple things like, "This Angel is harmful. Must get rid of harmfulness." "This S2 Engine is powerful. Must use powerfulness." We're not sure of she's completely aware of how the Unit looks when it achieves these sorts of things, or even how it achieves these sorts of things. This is made clear by how soft and articulate Yui's soul seems when you get to know it better, such as in Episode 16. I mean, sure, she was there when the Evas were developed. So she must have known at some point what it all might have looked like. But 10 or so years inside something will make one loose the older perceptions of it. She probably forgot what it must look like or feel like to have her thoughts manifest themselves in the way they do through the Eva.

Not to project NME onto NGE, but I find it interesting that at the end of 2.22, when Shinji saw himself doing one thing inside Unit 01, it didn't quite look the same way in the real world. EoTV and EoE gives us a more NGE canonical glimpse of what perceiving the real world must look like from a soul trapped in an Eva Unit. Everything's all emotionally stitched together, there's no linear sense of reasoning or anything like that. It's all a web work of pattern recognition.

Granted, pattern recognition and a web work of various emotions are the primary cognitive functions of most women, as opposed to men who seem to think more linearly. But it's never this prominent or exaggerated, and it obviously never effected the retinas's ability to collect visual data or the brains interpretation of that data. But, even when Shinji's soul is absorbed in Unit 01, it too dips into the same web of emotional interpretation of the reality around Unit 01, as we see in Episodes 16, 20, 25, 26, and EoE. So, being a soul trapped inside the Eva, maybe that's how Yui's perceived reality for the past 10 or so years. It all doesn't come across as a literal visual interpretation of the events, but rather a pure emotional interpretation of the events.

The only attempts Unit 01 could have possibly made of literal visual perception was when it directly involved Shinji. She lifts a hand to protect Shinji from falling debris in Episode 1, occasionally fights for Shinji, her soul reached out to touch Shinji in Episode 16, and she reaches out to comfort Shinji in EoE using Unit 01's actual hand.

Yes, that's right. I think Yui was using Unit 01 to comfort Shinji at that point. I mean, to her, he must have seemed sad. When Shinji audibly mentions that he can't get to his Eva, the hand springs up and the fingers reach right next to his left cheek. Not at his feet allowing him to walk across or anything like that, but right near his shoulder. It would almost look comforting if Unit 01 wasn't hundreds of feet tall and about a thousand tons of horrific bio-engineered weaponry. It almost mirrors Episode 16 in how she reaches out to Shinji as well as at the end of EoE when she leaves Shinji, and at the very end od EoE when Asuka touches Shinji's cheek.

Or, again, it would look that way if Unit 01 wasn't hundreds of feet tall and about a thousand tons of horrific bio-engineered weaponry. There's only so much of cheek touching you can do when you're hand has the tendency to crush whatever it touches under its own weight.

So, maybe Yui wasn't actively waiting for Asuka to die. Nothing Yui ever did before revolved around Asuka. Heck, for all we know, Yui isn't even aware of Asuka's circumstance. The only time Yui might have seen the other women was in Episode 20 when Shinji kept visualizing Rei, Asuka, and Misato over and over again. Yui might have caught a glimpse of that, being stuck in the Eva and all. But she doesn't seem to be tracking their movements from outside the Unit simply because, well, they're not Shinji.

Maybe she just heard him say that he wanted to get to the Eva, saw that he was sad, and literally offered him a hand.

[Kendrix]

Yui discarded the bakelite when it was time to subvert the impact because everything else was ready.

...How would she even KNOW that Asuka was in danger? Does the fruit of life neccessarily give you ESP?
I mean, Asuka/EVA 02 were probably hundreds of meters above them.

And yeah, the issue of how concious she is - Reember the scattered dream state Shinji found himself in in ep 20. There were reactions to having very familiar people react strongly (Misato crying for him), but other than that...

Then again, unlike him, Yui knew what was gonna happen to her, and she had years to learn and controll it, so yeah...

[Chuckman]

Maya was weeping over the PA system as she watched Asuka being eaten and raped to death.

What's the worst thing you can imagine? Merging your consciousness with your mom while giant monsters tear you both apart and lick you must be pretty bad.

Angels apparently possess some level of ESP. They know there's something under Tokyo-3 they want and a couple of them establish telepathic contact with the pilots. It's not a big leap to assume Evas do, as well.

An important question here is, can the Evas hear, either naturally or through some mechanical means implanted in them with the control system/armor? Could Yui hear Maya's screaming, and if so, could she understand it? That's a pretty fundamental question that needs to be answered before we can decide if Yui deliberately ignored Asuka's plight or not. If she wasn't even aware of it, she can't be held responsible for it.

If an Asuka dies in the Geofront, does she make a sound?

To me, it's more poignant and more Annoesque to assume that while Shinji could hear of Asuka's suffering, the Eva couldn't. There was literally nothing he could do. It makes the whole sequence from Misato's pep talk, fuckin' promise and death through his arrival at the Eva a perfect metaphor for depression. You can't just talk somebody out of it.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Maya was weeping over the PA system as she watched Asuka being eaten and raped to death.

Too bad she wasn't weeping Asuka's coordinates and stuff.

[peripateia]

woe to the person who laments 'what could have been,' but we don't actually know whether Yui could have activated sooner. I can only speculate: perhaps all Shinji needed to do was to make his presence felt to Shogouki, by shouting, waving, etc. Perhaps Yui would still have waited for Nigouki to die on purpose. But:

1. If Shinji had shown half the resolve to pilot eva that he showed to Gendo in ep.19, I suspect Yui would have activated much sooner.
2. Yui's activation is shown as an aggressive act: Shogouki's palm crushes the railing that Shinji is standing on, as if to serve as a rude awakening to its pilot. I argue that this implies, Yui felt anger and disappointment at Shinji's lack of resolve.

The point, as Chuckman states, is that Shinji is a depressed wreck and couldn't be expected to take action, even to save Asuka. I add that this still points to Shinji's culpability in Asuka's death rather than Yui's calculated indifference to Nigouki's suffering.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

It all comes down to how much awareness she has and how much control over the Eva she has. Everything we see points to very little on both counts. When it goes berserk it's not Yui in a two hundred foot tall body, it's a tortured, suffering monster that's enraged and in pain, directed by her instincts and drives.

I believe theres a cut in episode 19 in which eva 01s hand is described as moving like an orchestral conductors. It points to a more sentient level of control.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I add that this still points to Shinji's culpability in Asuka's death rather than Yui's calculated indifference to Nigouki's suffering.

I just find it interesting Yui is capable of noticing anyone other than Gendo or Shinji. She's had no real "down time" with Asuka like she had with Gendo, Shinji, or even Rei. (Sync ratio tests and such.)

Again, I think soul trapped inside the Eva perceives the world outside the Eva in a fashion similar to how Shinji perceived the world outside the Eva in Episodes 16 and 20, or even in EoTV and EoE. No real details can be distinguished, just a blur of convoluted emotional readings and stuff.

Remember when Ritsuko tried to to pull Shinji out of Unit 01 in Episode 20, and all Shinji heard was a bunch of his classmates calling his name over and over again? I'm pretty sure that's how Yui sees the outside world almost everyday. If creating a direct link to the Eva using some form of technology only results in monotonous babbling, imagine what an indirect perception, such as hearing stuff over a PA system, or hearing something from the other side of the wall, would be like. It would probably be even less distinguishable than the direct link.