Failures of Infinity: Don't lose your head!

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

Reichu
Death True True
Death True True
User avatar
Posts: 23939
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Starship Eva
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sat May 04, 2013 11:44 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:I don't think I agree with that last one. Where did you see that "all" of the evas in Tokyo-3 are deformed? In the script?

It was an inference from looking at these pans. If nothing else, we can conclude that nearly all show various signs of deformity.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

Nuclear Lunchbox
Agent Ahegao
Agent Ahegao
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 10212
Joined: Dec 13, 2012
Location: 可塑の椅子

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sat May 04, 2013 11:56 am

I wouldn't be surprised if the transformation happened during the actual 3I. It would explain why Misato isn't a giant decapitated Evangelion. What you said about the FOIs being the work of the Mk.06 has a lot of merit, Reichu.

Jinroh
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 612
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Sat May 04, 2013 12:07 pm

Most of them look fine to me, except for some of the pylons that look similar to awakened unit 13.

One thing I've just realized though, they aren't all the same size. Some on the foreground are small and some others on the background are gigantic.

edit: well, some don't look fine at all actually...
Last edited by Jinroh on Sat May 04, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Angel of Will
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 199
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Location: Snow-Ville

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Angel of Will » Sat May 04, 2013 12:08 pm

I'd like to note that the Tokyo-3 Failures are also without heads, from the pans that Reichu linked to. Most obvious one being the first, where it shows a bunch of stringy organs coming out of a neck stump.
"Reality exists in a place unknown, and dreams exist within reality. And Truth lies in your heart."

TMBounty_Hunter
Hachigouki is my waifu
Hachigouki is my waifu
User avatar
Posts: 3195
Joined: Nov 08, 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Sat May 04, 2013 12:27 pm

Reichu requested shaft pan

SPOILER: Show
Image



One thing to note here is while the ones on the surface are 2D art, the ones in the shaft wall are 3DCG. This is presumably to allow to painlessly make all the necessary clean cuts through them.
"Hooray for other things!" -NAveryW

Nuclear Lunchbox
Agent Ahegao
Agent Ahegao
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 10212
Joined: Dec 13, 2012
Location: 可塑の椅子

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sat May 04, 2013 12:28 pm

View Original PostTMBounty_Hunter wrote:Reichu requested shaft pan

SPOILER: Show
Image



One thing to note here is while the ones on the surface are 2D art, the ones in the shaft wall are 3DCG. This is presumably to allow to painlessly make all the necessary clean cuts through them.

It looks like the shaft walls are made out of compressed FOIs. Like a sausage.

riffraff11235
Seed
Seed
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 3966
Joined: Jul 19, 2012
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby riffraff11235 » Sat May 04, 2013 12:35 pm

Looks to me like the FOIs were once one solid mass and the shaft was cut through them. Those bright red sections look like cross sections of Evas at various angles. Are we assuming that they're made of core block material?
だから みんな 死んでしまえば いいのに... では, あなたは何故, ココにいるの? ...ココにいても, いいの?
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
PSN - riffraff-11235 Feel free to add me. PM me on EGF if you do.
Steam - rifffraff11235

League of Legends - riffraff11235
Osu! - riffraff11235

K40s
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 354
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby K40s » Sat May 04, 2013 2:30 pm

I always found the bright red areas on the FoIs in the shaft a bit... odd ... I thought it was just the lighting that was messed up or something, but now that you mention it, it does seem like the FoIs were forming a block plugging the bottom of the shaft and that a cylinder was cut through them, the bright red areas being cross-sections of the FoIs where they got cut. :cringe: this gets creepier and creepier...

Monk Ed
Sunshine Administrator
Sunshine Administrator
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8554
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Location: Chicagoland area
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Monk Ed » Sat May 04, 2013 6:32 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Monk Ed: One problem I can see with the FoIs being Eva-01 copies is that the armor is not an exact match. The big giveaway here is that Eva-01, in 2.0, has two stripes on the upper arm; the Failures have one. Could they possibly be Mark.06's doing instead?

:chinscratch: Hmm... But are they otherwise similar enough that that could be chalked up to a "deformity error"? Does the Mark.06 have that same stripe?

If you look closely at the panning shots in the Tokyo-3 outskirts, the Failures are literally coming out of buildings. Not bursting out: emerging from.

I noticed that part even when I made that post. Another possibility which allows the evolution to happen first is if the process of growing from human form to Eva form might have been like that of Lilith's transformation to GNR, consisting of an intermediary ghostlike phase but then becoming solid at the final stage.
System Administrator
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

riffraff11235
Seed
Seed
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 3966
Joined: Jul 19, 2012
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby riffraff11235 » Sat May 04, 2013 8:41 pm

As Jinroh stated, I think it's important to note that the shoulder pylons of all the FOI look like what Eva 13 had before absorbing the core of the Twelfth Angel. Seems to me like the FOI were all trying to "awaken" but failed because they didn't have access to the core of an Angel... which could be the reason why we see them all trying to reach Central Dogma.

Also, in response to something that was mentioned way back in the thread: The tags "sealing" the entrance to Lilith's chamber in Ha are indeed inscribed with Lilith's name in Hebrew.
だから みんな 死んでしまえば いいのに... では, あなたは何故, ココにいるの? ...ココにいても, いいの?
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
PSN - riffraff-11235 Feel free to add me. PM me on EGF if you do.
Steam - rifffraff11235

League of Legends - riffraff11235
Osu! - riffraff11235

K40s
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 354
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby K40s » Sun May 05, 2013 1:58 am

Can we identify on which eva's image the FoIs were created? Reichu mentioned that it wasn't an exact match to Eva-01's armour, so who's the exact match? Mark.06?
That would reveal a lot about the Impact that happened during the time-skip and impact mechanics in general.
3.33 quotes  SPOILER: Show
00:50:53 {Shinji} What happened to everyone in the city?
00:50:55 {Kaworu} Mass extinctions are not unusual on this planet.
00:50:58 {Kaworu} In fact, they help drive evolution.
00:51:02 {Kaworu} Life has always changed itself to adapt to the world around it.
00:51:08 {Kaworu} However, Lilin do not change themselves, but the world.
00:51:15 {Kaworu} So they brought the rite of artificial evolution unto themselves.
00:51:21 {Kaworu} Old life is offered in sacrifice,
00:51:23 {Kaworu} so that new beings blessed with the Fruit of Life may be created.
00:51:29 {Kaworu} All this is an act of extinction that has been programmed since time immemorial.
00:51:33 {Kaworu} Nerv call it the Human Instrumentality Project.
(...)
01:05:28 {Shinji} The walls...?
01:05:30 {Kaworu} Yes, all failures of infinity.
01:05:38 {Kaworu} Don't let them weigh upon your mind.
01:05:42 {Kaworu} We're nearly at Lilith's barrier.
01:05:45 {Kaworu} The Main Shaft is completely blocked,
01:05:47 {Kaworu} keeping anyone from intruding over the past fourteen years.
01:05:56 {Shinji} It's like one big lid.
01:06:00 {Kaworu} It's all right. Eva-13 was made for breaking through this.
01:06:03 {Kaworu} The two of us can do it.
01:06:15 {Kaworu} Try to join tempos.
01:06:17 {Kaworu} Remember the piano duet.
01:06:24 {Kaworu} Let's go, Shinji-kun.
01:06:48 {Shinji} We did it!
01:07:07 {Kaworu} We've arrived. The deepest part of Central Dogma.
01:07:14 {Kaworu} The epicenter of Third Impact.
01:07:21 {Shinji} Is this Lilith?
01:07:23 {Kaworu} It once was.
01:07:25 {Kaworu} Now, it is her corpse.
Kaworu says the FoIs are beings blessed with the Fruit of Life, he also says that Lilith's vault has been sealed for 14 years and that it was there the epicenter of 3I.

He can't be talking about the n3I that Eva-01 triggered, the epicenter was way up on the Geofront ground level, we also saw Lilith during n3I and she was just chilling in her cross, nothing happened there at that point.

If the FoI were created on the image of the eva that continued 3I, I don't think it was Eva-01 because as was mentioned the armour doesn't match and shouldn't the impact that created the FoIs be an Adam-based impact? being the FoIs lifeforms with the FoL? I don't think Eva-01 would cause an Adam-based impact, because I don't think Eva-01 was a FoL life-form, I think Eva-01 was a FoK life-form and n3I was a Lilith-based Impact.
So which eva seems to be Adam-based and has the FoL at that point? it all seems to point to Mark.06...

Jinroh
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 612
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Sun May 05, 2013 2:44 am

Well, the pylons don't look like they belong to mark.06, since they are "straight" and not curved. Without seeing any heads it's difficult to know what they look like.

TMBounty_Hunter
Hachigouki is my waifu
Hachigouki is my waifu
User avatar
Posts: 3195
Joined: Nov 08, 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Tue May 07, 2013 4:31 pm

Reichu requested another FoI pan, this one from the moment when Kaworu's spider sense tingles

SPOILER: Show
Image



She also pointed out that during Shinji's ejection one of the floating 3DCG FoIs rotates to reveal Eva-01 style chestplate.
SPOILER: Show
Image


Combining that with a later 3DCG FoI closeup as it slams into the ground due to impact magic being gone
SPOILER: Show
Image

You can clearly see Eva-01 style shoulder pylons.

Based on the upper arms and torso armor it's pretty clear that at least for the bulk of the floating 3DCG FoIs the 2.0/Ha/破 CG model of Eva-01 with the head removed was used

SPOILER: Show
Image
"Hooray for other things!" -NAveryW

Jinroh
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 612
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Tue May 07, 2013 4:38 pm

Interesting, they are definitely unit 01 clones. So I guess shogoki also plays a role during third impact before being sent to space? If she's again made out of Lilith maybe both had some kind of interaction during third impact.
Last edited by Jinroh on Tue May 07, 2013 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Reichu
Death True True
Death True True
User avatar
Posts: 23939
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Starship Eva
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Tue May 07, 2013 4:39 pm

Thanks for the pics, TMB! A couple more observations:

- In the pan, one of the Failures is facing the camera, and Eva-01 chest plates and pylons are clearly visible.
- The falling FoI comes complete with Eva-01's second, tiny upper arm stripe.

So this should make it unambiguous whose image the Failures are in. Eva-01, guilty as charged!

It's still a huge question in my mind why the Nerv HQ / Dogma FOIs are perfectly formed, with the exception of the missing heads, while those in the Tokyo-3 outskirts are malformed.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

Jinroh
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 612
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Tue May 07, 2013 4:44 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:It's still a huge question in my mind why the Nerv HQ / Dogma FOIs are perfectly formed, with the exception of the missing heads, while those in the Tokyo-3 outskirts are malformed.

If it's a deliberate choice, maybe they weren't created at the same time or for a different reason? It seems strange.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 6890
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 07, 2013 4:54 pm

Very nice catch! :thumbsup:

So that would mean that EVA-01 was indeed involved into the crazy events where Lilith awaken and the landscape morphed into something out of the mind of Lovecraft! And here goes my last hope that EVA-01 had nothing to do with this nightmarish events... ;_;

I notice that the FoI from the pan don't seem to have EVA-01's arm fins...

View Original PostReichu wrote:- In the pan, one of the Failures is facing the camera, and Eva-01 chest plates and pylons are clearly visible.

Which one, I don't see it?

View Original PostReichu wrote:It's still a huge question in my mind why the Nerv HQ / Dogma FOIs are perfectly formed, with the exception of the missing heads, while those in the Tokyo-3 outskirts are malformed.

My personal guess is that FoI were being continuously formed on the core landscape on the surface, so the FoI we see in the Nerv HQ and Dogma are the ones that have finished to take form, while the ones on the outskirts of Tokyo-3 were one on the next wave that were still emerging from the "ground".

That battle must have been a giant nightmare : it was basically a giant Zerg rush with EVA-sized Zerglings! O_o
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Jinroh
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 612
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Tue May 07, 2013 5:00 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Which one, I don't see it?


SPOILER: Show
Image

Monk Ed
Sunshine Administrator
Sunshine Administrator
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8554
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Location: Chicagoland area
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Monk Ed » Tue May 07, 2013 5:10 pm

Reichu wrote: So this should make it unambiguous whose image the Failures are in. Eva-01, guilty as charged!

:mwahaha: Another mystery solved! Props to K40s if the idea originated with him. Or whoever.

I think this says a lot. A lot, both thematically and mechanically. It indicates a much clearer line of causal connection (and therefore, in some sense, responsibility) back to Shinji and his initiation of N3I and therefore helps explain everyone's feelings towards him. Who knows how many of the members of Wille had loved ones who turned into giant Eva-01 clones and now when they think of Shinji and Eva-01 all they can see is the twisted, broken, red form of their transformed and doomed family and friends?
System Administrator
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 6890
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 07, 2013 5:18 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Image

Thank you, now I see it!

If you notice, these FoI are copies of EVA-01 with all its bindings, including the chest plate... strange, I would have imagined them as exact copies of the evolved form with the core exposed... :chinscratch:

Monk Ed wrote:I think this says a lot. A lot, both thematically and mechanically. It indicates a much clearer line of causal connection (and therefore, in some sense, responsibility) back to Shinji and his initiation of N3I and therefore helps explain everyone's feelings towards him. Who knows how many of the members of Wille had loved ones who turned into giant Eva-01 clones and now when they think of Shinji and Eva-01 all they can see is the twisted, broken, red form of their transformed and doomed family and friends?

Indeed, it explains a lot about WILLE's crew open looks of anger against Shinji, not only he brough the end of the world, but they had a constant reminder of it in the hundreds of copies of EVA-01 that the FoI are, and every-time they look at the EVA powering their "ship of hope", they are reminded that that thing is the one who spawned these horrors, and this boy comes and want to pilot it, to make it free again? No way in hell!

Well, now I'm surer than ever that WILLE won't let EVA-01 go out, even if the situation is critical, so I can see only three ways to bring it back :
1/ it escapes, wrecking the Wunder while he it's on it
2/ the Wunder get destroyed, and EVA-01 emerges from the remains
3/ eventually neo-NERV manages to steal it from WILLE with the MP-EVAs and/or EVA-13
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests