The Music of New Eva

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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[SPOILERS] The Music of New Eva

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat May 11, 2013 3:23 pm

Most of Anno's Evangelion is told in a very strange manner. The audience is asked to probe details that most others would simply consider part of the world-building elements to the show's environment, or throw-away lines that the viewer considered part of the techno-babble that made the show feel more grounded in its sci-fi genre.

In this review, I plan on focusing on a different element of the films, one that's hardly used when trying to decipher meaning from the show. I would like to look at Shiro SAGISU's music for the New Eva movies, as I believe that most of it connects themes and plot points to one another through both association of the reoccurring melodies used, or the choral lyrics supporting those melodies.

I have a ton of theories surrounding the music of New Eva, but will only be posting them one at a time. I'm still refining the other theories right now, and it'll take a while before I have most of the analysis of the OST to 2.22 finished. After all, the first musical score in 2.22 is enough to kindle conversation for quite a while.

Why are we starting at 2.22? Because most of it foreshadows 3.33, of course!


Evangelion 2.22: You Can (Not) Advancence

"At the Very Beginning"

In the beginning of the film "You Can (Not) Advance," The new character of Mari is introduced, along with the character of Kaji, who is only a familiar face to Misato, Ritsuko, and anyone who's watched the original TV series.

The first piece of musical score used in the film is a track called "At the Very Beginning." While the emotional tones set in the score are congruent with the events on screen, the choral lyrics seem very out of place when in context with the goals of either NERV or SEELE.

"At the very beginning we were created. In greed and selfishness we could never prosper. Created enemies against God's will."

The reprise of the verse only seconds later goes into a bit more detail.

"At the very beginning we were created to live together, but soon we hated. In greed and selfishness we could never prosper. Created enemies against God's will."

This seems out of place because we find out later on in the movie that it's within SEELE's interests to create a god in order for their version of Human Instrumentality. The events that took place at the end of the movie also suggest that NERV needs some form of god in order to bring Gendo's plans to fruition. The difference being that SEELE's god needs to come from Lilith, while Gendo's god need to come from Unit 01.

So if everyone involved is so caught up in the idea of creating a god, then why is the musical score introducing themes of defeating or breaking away from God? Is the true God of the Scriptures finally gonna be addressed in an Eva film? Is Shiro just being needlessly epic in his music by implying war with God in an Angel fight? If it's suggesting that NERV and SEELE are at war with each other's gods then this is a very confusing way to convey it.

But the choral lyrics aren't doing any of that. They are establishing this early in the series the goals of WILLE, and the two characters of Kaji and Mari that are supposedly in cahoots with one another in starting the construction the organization WILLE.

This is supported by the fact that:

A: The two characters speak English at some point in the film. This seems trivial, but it isn't. First consider that English isn't a common Japanese language, so it's usage in the film is to single these two out from the rest of the characters as doing something together. Also, see point "C."

B: Mari and Kaji seemed to have had a past together. Kaji tells Mari that she "a problem child, after all. " And Kaji's line "I feel bad about involving kids to carry out adult agendas," polarized by Mari's line "I feel awkward involving adults for the sake of my own goals..." actually suggests that their goals are similar enough in order to coincide. In fact, they might even be the same goal, they just don't like using others too far on the other end of the age gap in order to accomplish them.
(Also consider that after WILLE is established, Mari doesn't seem to be an any secret mission anymore. Instead she seems to be content being an Eva pilot for the time being. This suggests that she's there to help establish WILLE and pilot an Eva for them. This is a smart move in Kaji's plan, as it guarantees at least one Eva pilot for WILLE even if the established NERV/SEELE pilots Asuka, Shinji, Rei, or Kaworu don't agree to join forces with them. Mari's ability to snag Unit 02 later on in the film demonstrates how WILLE would acquire such Evangelion Units without the resources to make their own. Also, Mari being nowhere on the radar of NERV or SEELE also seems to support this idea, as she isn't a character that the two organizations had planned to use if the first place, making her a free agent to be used for the construction and use of WILLE.)

C: Mari's phone conversation in the film suggests that she's speaking with someone who saw her come into Japan, as Mari seems to have responded to a remark made on her entrance into Japan. ("Well you told me to enter into Japan covertly!") I theorize that this may be Kaji on the other end of the line as he's observing her entrance, as the film had already established that Kaji in also an English speaker. The tone Mari brings to the line suggests she's being a "problem child" all over again for poor Kaji. (Kaji's interception of Shinji in the scene immediately follwing this one suggests he's monitoring Shinji to see if he'd actually slip up and reveal Mari's entrance into Japan.) As for Kaji not speaking English to Mari earlier in the film, Mari had already selected to use the Japanese language to pilot Unit 05. Kaji's Japanese line not only established some exposition in the film, but was also used by Kaji so that he could make sure that Mari knew Japanese well enough to carry out the task at hand. If she had stammered in response to Kaji Japanese line, he probably would have instructed her to go back to English for the mission. In this context, it would make sense that any other interaction between the two outside of that mission would be in English, Mari's native tongue.

D: It's heavily implied in Kohji Takao's line in 3.33 that Kaji has been recruiting people to take part in WILLE. ("She's a far more interesting Captain than Kaji described.") This, when in context of everything else listed above, suggests that Kaji's been actively putting together WILLE since even before his involvement in the series.
(Also may suggest that Kaji isn't dead, as he's recently been in the process of recruiting folks. Though something warns me against believing that for whatever reason. Maybe it was the shot of him waving around a gun in the previous preview that keeps me from accepting that Kaji's alive in 3.33.)

E: And finally, when keeping in mind that it is in both NERV and SEELE's interests to create a god, Misato's line in 3.33 "We will destroy all of NERV'S Evas" is synonymous to the goals expressed in the score "From the Very Beginning" introduce. This explains why the choral lyrics from that score kept referencing a war between man and God during the introduction of Kaji and Mari, as they are the two in the film who are building WILLE. The name "WILLE" is the label the Lillin gave themselves, furthering their will in defiance of whatever will SEELE or Gendo's gods would have in store for the Lillin.

The idea that SEELE was after a god is confirmed in not only bits of dialogue in the film series, but also in the dichotomy in the musical score in 3.33, which will be discussed at a much later date, along with the dichotomy of the choral lyrics between WILLE scenes and NERV/SEELE scenes.

For now, I need to finish writing up the analysis of the rest of 2.22's musical score and how it relates to 3.33.

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Music of New Eva

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sat May 11, 2013 4:06 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:"At the very beginning we were created to live together, but soon we hated. In greed and selfishness we could never prosper. Created enemies against God's will."

I always took these lyrics as alluding to the division between the SoLs, how they are similar, but must battle with those who "ate the other fruit". It could also be referring to the divisions within humanity itself, which the Human Instrumentality project is attempting to correct.
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Re: [SPOILERS] The Music of New Eva

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Postby Xiel » Sat May 11, 2013 4:39 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:I always took these lyrics as alluding to the division between the SoLs, how they are similar, but must battle with those who "ate the other fruit". It could also be referring to the divisions within humanity itself, which the Human Instrumentality project is attempting to correct.


Interestingly enough that Kaworu in NGE 2 implies that they never should have fought in the first place once he recalls his awareness as seed (because in the end, they all had the same origin and used to be of the same species). Perhaps this could be a hint of that same tragic message?

One has to remember that one of Evangelion's big themes is of miscommunication. I think this also applies to the conflict between angels and lilins. I think of Eva as an Anti-Macross of sorts in this aspect. If Macross successfully brings humans and other species (that fight them by misunderstandings and lack of communication) together through love and music (the love of culture itself) to share a common bridge. Eva is hopelessly tragic because it struggles to reach this understanding only to accomplish a minimal progress in the end.

If you think about it, the character who embodies love and loves music/culture who can be a bridge between species (Kaworu) is killed as a sign of the more despondent narrative (how fitting Kaworu is close to Macross singers in the SRW, he even composed a song with Minmay and Basara once) vs the more hopeful and endlessly optimistic Kawamori's view where love and co-existence always triumphs.

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Music of New Eva

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat May 11, 2013 4:46 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:I always took these lyrics as alluding to the division between the SoLs, how they are similar, but must battle with those who "ate the other fruit". It could also be referring to the divisions within humanity itself, which the Human Instrumentality project is attempting to correct.

Well, the SoL's aren't really as clearly defined as they need to be in this continuity just yet. And again, this theory would suggest war between two gods (or SoLs, in this case) not between god and mortals, which is what the song seems to be heavily implying.

This idea of a war between God and man is brought into clearer light in 3.33, in musical tracks such as "Out of the Dark" playing when Rei captures Shinji from WILLE, "The Wrath of God in All its Fury" when WILLE is up against SEELE's Impact Senario, and "God's Gift" as SEELE's Impact is either halted or simply comes to a close before WILLE recaptures the trigger. ("The trigger" being Shinji.)

Seeing as how both Gendo's Impact at the end of 2.22 and SEELE's Impact at the end of 3.33 both have an Eva Unit absorbing and Angel in order to trigger it, the SoL ideas can still be brought into play here. Both Impacts required a soul from one of Adams descendants in order to begin. The only group of people explicitly against this use of Adam's kin in this manner is "Team WILLE," a group of people made up entirely of Lillin (with the possible exception of their eva pilots), so their goals of defeating a god of any kind are still presented in the beginning of 2.22 in the musical score.

The score in 2.22's beginning cannot be used to refer to devisions among humanity, as this continuity has yet to describe them as "gods."

The "bonus points" of this theory, as it were, is that it also ties up all the loose ends of Kaji and Mari. But there's way more to analyzing the musical score than just figuring out the two characters with the least amount of screen-time in the entire film.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat May 11, 2013 4:50 pm

Wait, just to be sure : by "SoL", you means "Seed of Life" right?
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat May 11, 2013 5:07 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Wait, just to be sure : by "SoL", you means "Seed of Life" right?
"Seed of Life" or "Source of Life," yes.

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The Meaning of the Music of Q [Split]

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Postby Malevolo » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:03 pm

[Split from the 4.0 speculation thread, starting around here. - Monk]

Seriously, after hearing for 3 days the OST of "Q" I rellay think he's right about his assumptions because the themes of each musics gives clues of what is really going.

CD1
01 Gods Message
02 The Ultimate Soldier
03 Dark Defender
04 The Anthem
05 Out of the Dark
06 L'Apôtre de la Lune (2 pianos)
07 Quatre Mains (à quatre mains)
08 Qui veut faire l'ange fait la bête (piano solo)
09 Trust
10 L'Apôtre de la Lune (orchestre cordes)
11 Return to Ash
12 It will mean Victory
13 Betrayal
14 Scarred and Battled
15 From Beethoven 9
16 The Wrath of God in All its Fury
17 Tout est Perplexe (Thème Q)
18 Gods Gift
19 Kindred Spirits (Thème Q)

Look at the names, it's FULL of clues, even the ones in French (El Mariachi please, traduce them, i speak Portuguese but our languages are so apart that i can't understand them fully).

The most interesting names are "Betrayal", "Scarred and Battled" - this one is reference to Asuka I can assume - and "Gods Gift" - that is last music of the movie, anno you're a troll hehehe.

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Re: EL Mariachi rules!

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Postby iihieiii » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:44 pm

View Original PostMalevolo wrote:Seriously, after hearing for 3 days the OST of "Q" I rellay think he's right about his assumptions because the themes of each musics gives clues of what is really going.

Look at the names, it's FULL of clues, even the ones in French (El Mariachi please, traduce them, i speak Portuguese but our languages are so apart that i can't understand them fully).

The most interesting names are "Betrayal", "Scarred and Battled" - this one is reference to Asuka I can assume - and "Gods Gift" - that is last music of the movie, anno you're a troll hehehe.


OMG :rolleyes: ....never thought about that...and if u look at it....it really make some sense.....BTW i also listening 2.0 OST for weeks now LOL...

Lets see what ElMariachi can bring to us ;P

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Postby riffraff11235 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:13 pm

I enjoy doing this stuff, so I'll take a stab at it. ElMariachi can correct any of my eventual mistakes. :lol: My Italian should help me somewhat here. Let's see....

06/10 L'Apôtre de la Lune = The Apostle of the Moon
07 Quatre Mains = Four Hands
08 Qui veut faire l'ange fait la bête = He who wishes to act angelic acts beastly (kinda forced, not sure how to accurately translate this structure...)
17 Tout est Perplexe = Everything is Puzzled (I like "confused" more....)
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Postby iihieiii » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:31 pm

You see lol....thats why i "hate" ANNO lol....you can dig as much as you can....and still u find this new meanings and messages...jez :shifty: .....this is practically the whole movie story in soundtrack lines ;P

BTW...have anyone already noticed that in previously posts or is this just new???

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Postby Malevolo » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:43 pm

Kindred spirits as a theme song, is a really nice pun after you see the state people treats Shinji in the Wunder. Is a reference to Kaworu too.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:51 am

We're drifting onto a dangerous tangent here..........
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

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Postby iihieiii » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:01 am

We're drifting onto a dangerous tangent here..........


LOL...it may be wierd....but if you look at it...kinda make some sense....even it is total Bullshit ;P....and also considering that is ANNO we are talking about....everything is possible lol

ElMariachi...some help in here [url]http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/14645/Help-on-Evangelion-FAQ/[/url] plz =P

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Postby Monk Ed » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:11 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:We're drifting onto a dangerous tangent here..........

Like OMF, I am fairly tolerant of topic drift, especially when you guys make the split easy on me by at least keeping your individual posts either fully on-topic or fully off-topic.
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Postby tzigi » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:52 am

View Original Postriffraff11235 wrote:08 Qui veut faire l'ange fait la bête = He who wishes to act angelic acts beastly (kinda forced, not sure how to accurately translate this structure...)

First of all that's a fragment of Pascal, so the best way would be probably to check it in an English edition of his works.
But in the context of NME (and Evangelion in general) I've assumed that it was litteral: "[he] who wants to make/create an angel, makes/creates a beast" - kind of like mankind created Evas from angels (not to go into details here from what exactly Evas are made) and in NME they turn into real beasts (especially Eva 02).
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Postby Monk Ed » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:21 am

Merged thread formerly titled "The Meaning of the Music of Q [Split]" into this topic. Thanks for bringing this topic to my/everyone's attention Blue Monday.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:45 am

Hey, look! It's that topic I started had had absolutely no time to continue. :tongue: Glad to see everyone else caught on, though.

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Postby moonwolf2024 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:47 am

Those songs really give you a sense of the characters emotional state. Sometimes regular people in general. My personal favorite is Fate from 2.0. It really shows the inner turmoil a person can go through.

What will the future hold
How will I be rewarded
Have I the right to riches
In a world where there are no prizes

Who makes the clock tick by
When will my fate be ready
Do I get prior warning
Am I told? Are there no surprises

I have to count my blessings
I have to learn my lessons
My fate is in the balance
I must go on believing
Maybe if you shut up and stop over analyzing everything you just might get it........


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