12th Angel, Rei, Lilith

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:45 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:That's as may be, but what we're left with is what's in the movie. We all know that things often change when going from the storyboards to the final product.

OK, then - it's much clearer in the Groundwork drawings. (I'm going out now, but I'll scan one later if you want).
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:51 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:OK, then - it's much clearer in the Groundwork drawings. (I'm going out now, but I'll scan one later if you want).


Oooh, that's a good idea. I have Groundwork myself, so I'll check it as well. That should have the actual cells used in the film, though I don't think they do the before and after thing that the Q books do.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:55 pm

That's actually what I mean, the CRC drawing, my bad! -o-;
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EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:00 pm

Groundwork does have the slab in B&W, a bit small and grainy. CRC and Eva Exhibit book have it in full color and much clearer.

It's mostly restraints but the right arms looks bandaged elbow and up.



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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:19 pm

Regardless of comparing Asuka to Rei, I'm with Bagheera. I don't think it would be out of the question to have Asuka performing in some capacity, given that we don't even know for sure what's wrong with her.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:15 pm

View Original PostTMBounty_Hunter wrote:Groundwork does have the slab in B&W, a bit small and grainy. CRC and Eva Exhibit book have it in full color and much clearer.

It's mostly restraints but the right arms looks bandaged elbow and up.


Looking at it, I don't think so. Look at the shoulders, at the legs. Those all look like restraints to me. I mean, maybe the arm -- an amusing callback to EoE -- but other than that I'm not seeing it. There might be injuries under all of that, but I think it's clear they're binding her in that scene, not keeping her on life support. The creepiness of the pillars, the glyphs on the mask and chest . . . that ain't medical equipment.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:25 pm

And why it can't be both? Look again at her arms, there are various IV connected to her.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:31 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:And why it can't be both? Look again at her arms, there are various IV connected to her.


I don't think those are IVs (you only need one IV, anyway). One goes to the plate on her chest, four go to the things covering her hands, one goes under her shoulder, one goes to the headpiece . . . every single one of them connects to an armor/restraint element. I think those are powering whatever that stuff is that's binding her.

A translation of the Japanese on the image might shed some light here.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:36 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:A translation of the Japanese on the image might shed some light here.

iirc this has been brought up before and that text is purely animation/presentation instructions and not anything about in-universe equipment.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:34 pm

On-topic, I don't know why the insistence that Mari and Asuka must have been present for the 12th Angel's first appearance. Mari, maybe, but Asuka clearly has no idea what to do with the beast, casting some doubt that she's dealt with it before. And with all the Eva units (and Rei clones, and maybe even freshly-drafted pilots, cf. the Toji's shirt mystery) unaccounted for courtesy of the timeskip, it's not as if the options for who dealt with Mark.06 are limited.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:39 pm

I don't think anybody's insisting that they were there. I think we're just marking it as a possibility among many, albeit a more probable one.

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Postby wiser3754 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:42 am

This has very little to do with the Lilith but more to do with the Mark.06. As Eva-13 is descending into Lilith's chamber and we get the close-up shot of Mark.06 did anyone notice it's swollen belly?
It looks like it's pregnant and I'm not just talking about the front, one whole section of it's armour has bloated around in a spherical shape.

And just before I go, when the 12th Angel is detected inside the Mark.06 Unit 02's tactical mission notification reads "Warning | Confirmed: 12th Angel Verification". Why would her computer need to re confirm the 12th Angel and verify if on the assumption that Unit 02 had encountered it before if it had possessed the Mark.06 which led to it's current status?
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Postby Reichu » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:52 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:This has very little to do with the Lilith but more to do with the Mark.06. As Eva-13 is descending into Lilith's chamber and we get the close-up shot of Mark.06 did anyone notice it's swollen belly?
It looks like it's pregnant and I'm not just talking about the front, one whole section of it's armour has bloated around in a spherical shape.

I'm not seeing it, to be honest. It just looks the way the armor plating should look given the arched back.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:01 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:And just before I go, when the 12th Angel is detected inside the Mark.06 Unit 02's tactical mission notification reads "Warning | Confirmed: 12th Angel Verification". Why would her computer need to re confirm the 12th Angel and verify if on the assumption that Unit 02 had encountered it before if it had possessed the Mark.06 which led to it's current status?

Or EVA-02's database was just updated, if you closely its whole UI was changed from what it was before the timeskip, it wouldn't make sense for it to keep the same data than 14 years ago.
That or it's connected to the Wunder database in their Magi that do have data about the 12th Angel.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I'm not seeing it, to be honest. It just looks the way the armor plating should look given the arched back.

Same here. The only indication we get that "Holy smokes, there's something alive in there!" comes when we hear that really freaky groan and the Mk.06's visor lights up with all that core material.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:35 pm

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:And just before I go, when the 12th Angel is detected inside the Mark.06 Unit 02's tactical mission notification reads "Warning | Confirmed: 12th Angel Verification". Why would her computer need to re confirm the 12th Angel and verify if on the assumption that Unit 02 had encountered it before if it had possessed the Mark.06 which led to it's current status?


How would it confirm it if it hadn't encountered it before? Doesn't it make sense to confirm that what's before you does indeed match up with what's in your database?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby wiser3754 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:55 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:How would it confirm it if it hadn't encountered it before? Doesn't it make sense to confirm that what's before you does indeed match up with what's in your database?


If Unit 02 or WILLE had already encountered it then the tactical display should have only read "12th Angel detected" with no need to confirm it. I made this assumption based on the Magi's detection system where it analyses the entity's waveform for red, orange or blue before giving the Angel's designation and confirmation.

And by the way, why does Asuka intend to use a completely useless weapon against the Mark.06/12th Angel when it completely ineffective against it. If they had already encountered it before, she should have known better.
I watch and speculate.


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