shipping has no place on the wiki

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shipping has no place on the wiki

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Postby AilesGrises » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:16 pm

I only joined the site with Rebuild 3.0 since various dumps of new info that weren't available on other places were happening here, and it's a generally interesting place but, what's with the blatant Asuka+Shinji shipping bullshit? There are reeeaaaaalllllyyyy creepy vibes through a lot of articles. I know it's a fan site and fans wank and ship but, it's also supposed to be a wiki. There's some really weird and dubious cherry-picking going on and I'm of the opinion that the wiki needs some editing.

Shinji is attracted to Asuka

The two other main women in Shinji’s life are Rei Ayanami and Misato Katsuragi. He seems to care about them both dearly, but with them it is more difficult to determine the exact nature of his feelings.


Well, what? Shinji is attracted to both Asuka and Rei, which is explicitly portrayed both in the series and in the End of Evangelion "continuity", during instrumentality. Both Asuka and Rei are portrayed as having feelings for him in return as well (and in both cases there is some ambiguity due to Kaji and Gendo respectively). Misato is a bit of a weird case when you consider End of Evangelion (the kiss scene, as well as various scenes during instrumentality complicate things), but has motherly feelings towards him otherwise. So is Shinji's attraction towards Misato which, even if hinted to be that between a child and his guardian, comes off as more ambiguous (and then again Freud).

And as much as the wiki tries to pitch LAS as canon, there is no clear hierarchy between the 3 relationships. There's just a clear hierarchy between two sets of relationships - {Asuka,Rei} and {Misato} - and why is that is pretty clear when Asuka and Rei are each others' foils (the alternatives, two sides of one coin), making them the main point of the few and "subtle" romantic developments from Shinji's life.

He seems to care about them both dearly, but with them it is more difficult to determine the exact nature of his feelings. Shinji appears frightened by Misato’s attraction to him, and though he is kind to Rei, grows to fear her after discovering her connection to his mother


And the glaringly omitted continuation to this is Asuka is in the same boat. Did you forget that he strangles her? Twice? He goes through a cycle of attraction and rejection with all 3 main women in his life (and on a side note, all male friends in his life are taken away by plot). It's part of the narrative. No, it's crucial to the narrative. "Hedgehog dilemma" anyone?

the reasoning is not explicitly stated


The reasoning doesn't need to be stated. It is obvious in all 4 cases (let's not forget Kaworu, Toji and the like): humans are social creatures. That's all that matters as far as the narrative is concerned. And of course, they're teenagers. Eva pretty much spoonfeeds us these aspects several times, doesn't it?
Again, a central thematic point that seems to be ignored for the sake of shipping. Creepy.

It might be that her bullying sometimes causes Shinji to bite back at her, and he views Asuka, in a strange fashion, as a source of strength


Well, fanwank much? Or maybe external material (say, a certain card game) sipping through where it simply does not belong?

one that he misses when Asuka is laid low by her encounter with Arael


Cherry-picking much? This is also the case with Rei in episodes 6 and 23, for example.

Oh, and I didn't even begin to shove my hands into this blunder: http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:Shinji_and_Asuka%27s_Relationship

The complex dynamics of their relationship quickly become the heart of the show


Uh? The heart of the show is (was and always will be, shipping be damned) Shinji's character/person and his relationship with all the characters in the show, not just Asuka. Of course, some (Asuka, Gendo, Misato, Rei and Kaworu) are more important than others.

Most aspects of the relationship, however, remain unspoken or denied and it is important to realize that what the characters say or do almost never directly corresponds to what they actually feel or desire. Thus it is up to the viewer to piece together their motivations from the unspoken or implied aspects of their actions.


I really like this part. I really do. Especially because it applies to every single one of Shinji's relationships, not just his relationship with Asuka. I like it because it's captain obvious material. But obvious things are the best, and they are the kind of thing that belong in an impartial wiki. Not shipping.

In many cases the clues to unraveling a scene can only be found in conjunction with other scenes.


Or, in translation: "in many cases the clues to unraveling a scene can only be found by wearing your shipper glasses."

Are They a Couple? The short answer is yes


Bwahahahahahallshit! BULLSHIT! Really.

but certainly not as traditionally portrayed in this sort of story. [...] Rather, it is the evidence presented in the show makes it clear that they are the show's primary couple.

Oh, how "cute". *rolls eyes*

Now, since that's out of the way *pheewww*:

Friends see a relationship of which the character's themselves are blind.

*crickets, crickets* What? No, I mean, obviously true. But since when did this acquire a romantic spin/nuance and isn't just classmates being classmates making fun of the situation? Shits and giggles.

After Asuka runs from the room Hikari says to Shinji: "Go after her! You made a girl cry!" [...] it's hard to understand exactly how Shinji is responsible. If anyone made Asuka cry it was Misato. [...] Hikari has already figured out that they are a couple, and feels that it is Shinji's responsibility to protect Asuka from this sort of humiliation.

How. What. Why.

IT IS Shinji's fault. And it's obvious. It's both of their fault actually, but the key point here is that Shinji shares the blame for not dancing properly with Asuka. So it's his responsibility to fix this or they'll never get over it.

How come he can find it in him to dance properly with Rei but not with Asuka? That's the issue - he knows how to dance but for obvious reasons doesn't dance well with Asuka. How is Misato to blame that Shinji and Asuka don't dance well together? It's just the opposite, what she does is to give them a push to get over their damn hormones and do the thing like they're supposed to.

the kiss


FINALLY, something with a little more weight than the "right" colours under the shipping spectrometre. Yes indeed, there is sexual tension between Asuka and Shinji (how couldn't there be when they're two teenagers living in the same apartment? it would've been weird if stuff like this DIDN'T happen) - a couple make them it does not. The article momentarily (and "conveniently") ignores and omits the aftermaths of both instances. Shinji does not go in for the kiss, and Shinji does not go after her in episode 15.

Since we're at episode 15 (and because I'm not in the mood to write more in this post), I think it's proper to mention Shinji's dialogue with Rei which is also fuel for shipping curtesy of Anno and company ("you'd make a good wife" - just as standard a trope of "romantic" development in anime as the classmates stuff above), but not really proof of anything, as far as couples are concerned. They (these moments the shippers drool over, like the Asuka stuff or the Rei stuff) are always about availability of choice, an availability that ends up being rejected together with the choice because relationships suck balls and get you hurt ("hedgehog dilemma" again): "I hate everyone and want everyone to disappear" cue orange juice with no glass or straw. Ta dah! The narrative dictates that any potential pairings are there just so there can be something to shoot down.

So much for your couples. :P

edit: oh yeah, and what I was going to suggest. If the article on Shinji and Asuka relationship is to stay it should be properly edited and similar articles focused on his relationship with Gendo, Rei, Misato and Kaworu should also be written.

another edit: I completely forgot about Yui. An article about Shinji's relationship with Yui wouldn't hurt either. She is his mother (and the fiend he pilots) after all.

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Re: shipping has no place on the wiki

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:12 pm

View Original PostAilesGrises wrote:Well, what? Shinji is attracted to both Asuka and Rei, which is explicitly portrayed both in the series and in the End of Evangelion "continuity", during instrumentality.

I disagree. Shinji's attraction to Rei is simply his trying to understand his relationship with her, and why he sees her as maternal. After Rei II dies he's afraid of her. That's a bad romance.

Also, tldr. Maybe later.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:15 pm

It's not like there is a such thing as a good romance in the series though. Anyways it's probably worth noting Sadamoto did design Asuka thinking she and Shinji would have a relationship similar to Nadia and Jean. Not sure who was supposed to be who though.
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Postby Ornette » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:32 pm

View Original PostAilesGrises wrote:I only joined the site with Rebuild 3.0 since various dumps of new info that weren't available on other places were happening here, and it's a generally interesting place but, what's with the blatant Asuka+Shinji shipping bullshit? There are reeeaaaaalllllyyyy creepy vibes through a lot of articles. I know it's a fan site and fans wank and ship but, it's also supposed to be a wiki. There's some really weird and dubious cherry-picking going on and I'm of the opinion that the wiki needs some editing.

That's what happens when there's only 5 people writing those articles and 500 people complaining about them. But what's closer to reality, is that it was really just one person who wrote all of those articles, and the other 4 trying to fix them, and, the other 500 people complaining about them.

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Re: shipping has no place on the wiki

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Postby thewayneiac » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:41 pm

View Original PostAilesGrises wrote:Uh? The heart of the show is (was and always will be, shipping be damned) Shinji's character/person and his relationship with all the characters in the show, not just Asuka. Of course, some (Asuka, Gendo, Misato, Rei and Kaworu) are more important than others.


I fear I can't agree. It was Asuka's false perception that Shinji had rejected her in Ep. 15 that started her downward spiral that left her unable to pilot and lead to the bathtub scene in Ep. 24. Asuka's consequent rejection of Shinji in the kitchen scene in pre-Instrumentality was the immediate trigger for his saying "everybody die!". Shinji's relationship with Asuka was the moving force that caused events to unfold the way they did. Shinji did not bring on Instrumentality because his relationships with Rei and Misato crumbled after Ep. 23; it was because of the tragic failure of Shinji and Asuka to connect.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:46 pm

Keep in mind that these are the opinions of the people that wrote the articles, and that they weren't removed because whoever controls the wiki content found it reasonable. If you think it should be different, apply for scribedom.

As a side note, I do agree with the SxA shipping. It makes a lot of sense.

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:57 pm

While so of the wiki material mentioned is valid in its own right, I appreciate AilesGrises' point of view here. The wiki should not be taking a shipping stance overall, except on pages whose topic is dedicated to discussing a shipping or that aspect of a relationship.

I'm hoping to begin implementing a wiki makeover in the coming days, in which controversial material like this ( all shippings as controversial be default), are shunted first to the relevant relationship page, with heavier material going to theory pages.

It's may also be possible to create a section for shipping where shippers can just "go nuts" and put their creative energies to good use rather than getting them all over more basic wiki pages. Hence the material which is "heaviest" of all can actually be present in an appropriate place. What do people this of this idea? Can outright shipping be acceptable on the wiki if it's placed in its own section(The section could have a yellow/white/pink color scheme for exampleThough I sometimes think bloody red makes a better fit. I digress.).
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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:14 pm

View Original PostAilesGrises wrote:Oh, and I didn't even begin to shove my hands into this blunder:


I have to say that I agree with this contention, but will say we are where we are for historical reasons to do with the longstanding continuity of the core members of the community; and that on account of not having taken the red pill myself, I stepped back from the wiki very early on, because I didn't have the energy for the sort of edit wars and forum dissent that I knew would have resulted from trying to go against the grain (anti-shipping in threads was wearing enough).

The forum orthodoxy on this issue had really crystallized from this thread on the AnimeNation forums dating from some months before I even picked up the first DVD myself, and well over a year before I got active in the online fandom; the cited page is a spiritual descendant of that original thread.
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Postby Stryker » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:19 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:It's may also be possible to create a section for shipping where shippers can just "go nuts" and put their creative energies to good use rather than getting them all over more basic wiki pages. Hence the material which is "heaviest" of all can actually be present in an appropriate place. What do people this of this idea? Can outright shipping be acceptable on the wiki if it's placed in its own section(The section could have a yellow/white/pink color scheme for exampleThough I sometimes think bloody red makes a better fit. I digress.).


I feel that we should have a thread sticky'd here for that type of thing, and then if a conclusion is came to, we put that up on the wiki. If the information on the wiki is questioned, we go back to the thread and discuss it over again. We should hold a basic summary of both sides to a opinion/debated topic (Ex: How ReixShinji would work versus how it would not work) on the pages.

Outright shipping on it's own section? Well, I've always held this position about Evageeks: the wiki is meant for holding long term, long-winding pieces of information that isn't touched or changed, while the forum is for short and sweet stuff that is easily swayed by forum opinion. Therefore, if we have a Shipping Page, let's say AsukaxShinji, we would have a general summary on the top about it, and two paragraphs about how it would work, and how it would not work. After that, there could be in-depth perception/analysis about the positions, and their arguments. Each relationship would have to have their own page, and information and arguments for those points should be cited to specific posts/topics in the forums.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:22 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:It's may also be possible to create a section for shipping where shippers can just "go nuts" and put their creative energies to good use rather than getting them all over more basic wiki pages. Hence the material which is "heaviest" of all can actually be present in an appropriate place. What do people this of this idea? Can outright shipping be acceptable on the wiki if it's placed in its own section(The section could have a yellow/white/pink color scheme for exampleThough I sometimes think bloody red makes a better fit. I digress.).


Honestly OMF I don't think that's a good idea. Last time I saw such a thing attempted it turned into a giant clusterfuck. Hell I've seen people get flogged on this very forum.
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Postby Paranoid » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:03 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:What do people this of this idea? Can outright shipping be acceptable on the wiki if it's placed in its own section(The section could have a yellow/white/pink color scheme for exampleThough I sometimes think bloody red makes a better fit. I digress.).


I don't think it's a good idea to let shippers "go nuts" on the wiki. The wiki is meant to be objective, and letting shippers go nuts is sort of the opposite of that. It will inevitably lead to subjective articles. However, I do think it's a good idea to start more objective analysis pages for each possible relationship.

While the current ShinjixAsuka page is a little biased (and there is at least some evidence to support all of the other ships; mainly Rei, but even Kaworu and Misato), certainly it shouldn't be thrown away as it contains a good bit of material and valid analysis.

I think the best way to make this objective and wiki-worthy is to rephrase this as "evidence supporting a romantic relationship between Shinji and Asuka", remove some of the more subjective points*, and start a similar article for each love interest. Maybe even include evidence to the contrary on each page, and let people decide for themselves.

*While I do personally believe that the SxA ship is the "right" one, I don't think the wiki should say things like "Are they a couple? Yes.". It's not nearly obvious enough for that to be an objective claim.
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Postby thewayneiac » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:18 pm

I disagree with the notion that the Shinji and Asuka's Relationship page is a shipping page. There's a perfectly valid case to be made, based upon the evidence presented in the show, that it is the show's primary relationship. It's not shipping to lay out that evidence and draw conclusions from it.

This is a good example, however, of why we need to have separate pages for alternate theories. Once we have that system in place, any Wiki editor who wants to and can make a valid case can create an alternate page explaining why Shinji's love interest is Rei, Misato, All of the Above, None of the above, etc.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:46 pm

View Original PostParanoid wrote:I don't think it's a good idea to let shippers "go nuts" on the wiki. The wiki is meant to be objective, and letting shippers go nuts is sort of the opposite of that.
The more factual, standard encyclopedic pages should be objective. I was thinking of a section of the "wiki", which simply uses the Mediawiki software to host an altogether different section of material. Something similar to how the Commentary is currently hosted.

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:I disagree with the notion that the Shinji and Asuka's Relationship page is a shipping page. There's a perfectly valid case to be made, based upon the evidence presented in the show, that it is the show's primary relationship. It's not shipping to lay out that evidence and draw conclusions from it.

Right now the page is clearly a theory page as it is drawing conclusions more so than simply presenting facts on the topic. A more basic Shinji/Asuka page is still needed on the wiki. In addition, given the disparity of opinion, two separate theory pages (+ potential criticism pages) will probably eventually be needed to present cases for SA as a couple, not as a couple.

In fact, because Shinji and Asuka is such an enormous topic in and of itself, there may well eventually need to be a Theory and Analysis "gateway" page to present the sheer breadth of interpretations which could be presented. However, I think only one basic "intermediate" relationship page should do for factual wiki material.
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Postby AilesGrises » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:53 am

I will shove all my replies in this post, please look for it here (also,like the op I wrote it in a rush, I apologize for that):

View Original PostOrnette wrote:That's what happens when there's only 5 people writing those articles and 500 people complaining about them. But what's closer to reality, is that it was really just one person who wrote all of those articles, and the other 4 trying to fix them, and, the other 500 people complaining about them.

Okay, I'm not entirely aware of how the wiki works (I even opened this thread in the wrong section apparently, sorry for that). If it's okay with you guys I am willing to help out and write/rewrite some (or more) stuff. I proposed some shit so I guess I'd be responsible to do it. The only problem is (as you surely noticed) that my English kinda sucks. But if you're okay with that, ir if someone with a better grasp of the language is willing to go over whatever I write and edit it to read like the proper language, I guess thare;d be no problems. Actually, now that I think about it that's a matter of course...

So yeah, I can write this stuff over the following weeks/months whenever I have more free time. First I guess we should go over things in this/and some other thread to make sure I don't replace someone else's bullshit with my own, right? So, yeah. (I'll go read the wiki guidelines and whatnot this weekend)If there's more I need to know, please tell me.

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Keep in mind that these are the opinions of the people that wrote the articles, and that they weren't removed because whoever controls the wiki content found it reasonable. If you think it should be different, apply for scribedom.

yes.

View Original PostThe Eva Monkey wrote:That's a bad romance..

Well, Eva is entirely devoid of any "good" romance. That was part of my point. Asuka is in no better position. Just to make it clear: I'm not trying to ship LRS. Just the opposite, I think that beyond a few necessary teases (because Eva's narrative and thematics are what they are) pairing/couplings have a concrete existence only in the fanbase. Eva is not romance nor does it have any romance beyond a minimum of details that are necessary to build what Eva is actually about - human relationships in general, and a troubled teenager in particular.

View Original PostAnonymous_Evafan wrote:Anyways it's probably worth noting Sadamoto did design Asuka thinking she and Shinji would have a relationship similar to Nadia and Jean. Not sure who was supposed to be who though.

I don't think there should be given much weight to these statements over what is actually in the series/film. Works go through many drafts but the only important one is the last one. And statements like these are kinda vague.

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:I fear I can't agree. It was Asuka's false perception that Shinji had rejected her in Ep. 15 that started her downward spiral that left her unable to pilot and lead to the bathtub scene in Ep. 24. Asuka's consequent rejection of Shinji in the kitchen scene in pre-Instrumentality was the immediate trigger for his saying "everybody die!". Shinji's relationship with Asuka was the moving force that caused events to unfold the way they did.

Well, in short: yes and no, but not really. Blaming Asuka's descent into despair on that one thing seems to me like grossly oversimplifying things. There's whole lot more to it than that. Like her broken obsession with being perceived as mature, which ends has in itself various ramifications to her person and her behaviour and relationships. See Kaji, and his explicit "rejection" - that is also clearly brought on during her introspective scenes/Asuka's "psychoanalysis" or whatever we should call those parts. Just like tehre's more to Shinjis relationship troubles than Asuka, there is more to Asuka's troubles than Shinji. Actually, the most emphasized aspect of this is Asuka's troubles/trauma with her mother (in a similar/analogous way with how Shinji's most prominent failure is his relationship with his father Gendo, which is given a lot of attention). And then there are the consequences of this trauma, Asuka's very competitive nature etc etc etc

And again, I'm not saying that the rut Asuka is in with Shinji does not contribute to her descent into despair etc. just that I think you're overestimating its importance.

One more thing I feel compelled to add though:

Shinji did not bring on Instrumentality because his relationships with Rei and Misato crumbled after Ep. 23; it was because of the tragic failure of Shinji and Asuka to connect.

This is simply false. No single one of Shinji's relationships are to blame for bringing on Instrumentality (which is the whole point too, actually), but rather the subsequent failings of all the relationships he has. His relationship with his father? Pretty much failed from the start. He replaces that with Misato, but that also eventually fails later. He befriends some blokes from school - one of them goes through a fucked up incident that Shinji is involved in. So much for that relationship. Rei comes into his life. But it turns out she's a freak - another relationship failure. He finds a friend in Kaworu (for whatever brief time) - but that gets fucked too, with a moment that is Toji's accident turned up to eleven. And then he tries to reach for Asuka, because she is "the only one left". But we know how that one goes, and pretty it ain't either. "Anyone would do". That's an important point. It's clear that it's not one "strike" but a sequence of a whole lot of shit.

Evangelion is not the story of "a boy and a girl". It is a story of "a boy and the people in his life". A bildungsroman. That's obvious, clear, completely non-ambiguous. Period.

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:While so of the wiki material mentioned is valid in its own right, I appreciate AilesGrises' point of view here. The wiki should not be taking a shipping stance overall, except on pages whose topic is dedicated to discussing a shipping or that aspect of a relationship.

Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. I don't have a problem with the fact that it's LAS per se, but that one stance is picked over some others.

As far as "official" shipping goes, it's not hard to build a similar page with LRS vibes either. But what I am saying by and large is this: the idea is very interesting in itself because the relationship between people (with Shinji in particular) are very important in Evangelion (that's why I think it'd be cool to have pages on non "romantic"-like relationships as well). But it shouldn't become what it's not really that clear to be.

Thank you.

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:The forum orthodoxy on this issue had really crystallized from this thread on the AnimeNation forums dating from some months before I even picked up the first DVD myself, and well over a year before I got active in the online fandom; the cited page is a spiritual descendant of that original thread.

Well, that's certainly good to know. (But that thread is huge, so) I will read over it in the weekend.

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:I disagree with the notion that the Shinji and Asuka's Relationship page is a shipping page. There's a perfectly valid case to be made, based upon the evidence presented in the show, that it is the show's primary relationship. It's not shipping to lay out that evidence and draw conclusions from it.

And I can't help but disagree with that. The page goes way beyond just presenting the evidence and drawings some conclusions/making some analysis. When the page has statements that hold the position that somehow LAS is the most important point in the series or that it is clear they are a "couple", when that's NOT the case, an alrm goes *ding ding ding* in my head (and I'm sure others' too) right away. It's not so much WHAT that article presents but HOW it presents the info that give it some really strong shipping vibes. And that raises some red flags. I literally gasped while reading some stuff on that page because I did not expect things to be put forward like they were.

About the whole "shipping section on the wiki" thing:

If I can chip in with my two cents - that makes me uncomfortable. How to put it. THe seeds for the various ships are definitely in Eva. I'm not trying to deny that there is not some sort of romantic (to whatever degree) involvement between Shinji and some of the characters in the series. But the trunk, branches and leaves of that seed grow mostly on the fan side of things. Evangelion in and of itlsef is not about Shinji's romantic adventures and misadventures. I think the wiki shouldn't be just as impartial as possible, but also true to the "spirit" of the narrative.

I am with Mr. Tines, Paranoid and Stryker on this. Shipping per se is better left on forums. The wiki itself should have a more rounded approach to these things.

edit: When I first posted this I had mixed up Kaworu and Touji, in a lapse of attention. Fixed that because it was pretty confusing in retrospect. Also fixed a typo ("psychoanalysis" was misspelled as "psuchoanalysis") because I noticed it by chance. I think any other slip ups are too minor to bother with so to any future reader: just suffer it as it is! :P
Last edited by AilesGrises on Sat May 18, 2013 8:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:50 am

Wow, I never read that "Shinji and Asuka's Relationship" page, once again ignorance proved to be bliss.
View Original PostAnonymous_Evafan wrote:It's not like there is a such thing as a good romance in the series though. Anyways it's probably worth noting Sadamoto did design Asuka thinking she and Shinji would have a relationship similar to Nadia and Jean. Not sure who was supposed to be who though.

*Citation needed*. I know that he drew her girly and idol-like under direct request of Anno, it's mentioned in the extra Renewal DVD, but I never heard anything about this.
View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:As a side note, I do agree with the SxA shipping. It makes a lot of sense.

Shipping two cornering walls would make more sense, at least they would have that angle in common.
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Postby NemZ » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:02 am

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:I disagree with the notion that the Shinji and Asuka's Relationship page is a shipping page.


Of course you do, since you're the one who wrote most of it. You made minor edits that systematically undermined the entire point of my article until I decided it wasn't worth the trouble to continue, then you burned it to the ground and replaced nearly all of it with the current biased mess.

Ornette wrote:That's what happens when there's only 5 people writing those articles and 500 people complaining about them. But what's closer to reality, is that it was really just one person who wrote all of those articles, and the other 4 trying to fix them, and, the other 500 people complaining about them.


I think you have it backwards; shit like this is the reason why only a handful of people are willing to contribute.
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Postby thewayneiac » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:16 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Of course you do, since you're the one who wrote most of it. You made minor edits that systematically undermined the entire point of my article until I decided it wasn't worth the trouble to continue, then you burned it to the ground and replaced nearly all of it with the current biased mess.


Which is why I've been lobbying, off and on, from the beginning for separate pages for alternative theories. As I said recently on one of the "fixing the Wiki" threads, now that this system is being implemented this is the perfect opportunity to revive your version as an alternate theory page. As policy stood at the time, your article would have been the one and only Shinji and Asuka's relationship article, and it was too far out of the mainstream for that purpose. (And trying to expand it to encompass both versions would have made it impossibly long, especially since in my view your duo POV format made it twice as long as it should have been to start with. Even if the main thrust of your article had been left intact, someone would have eventually re-formatted it to present Shinji's and Asuka's POVs together.)

I think you have it backwards; shit like this is the reason why only a handful of people are willing to contribute.


I think he was actually referring to all the work we had to do to clear the Vreckage from all the articles that V wrote.
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Postby Oenara » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:27 am

It looks like not everyone is in agreement on what the wiki is for: Factual information only? Evageeks consensus interpretations? Evageeks majority interpretations? The interpretation of the most persistent editor? Interpretations found in the fandom at large? It would be a good idea to settle that first.

Shipping isn't the only subject where the wiki favors one interpretation over another. I don't think it's necessary to exclude subjective interpretations from the wiki, but some distinction between ambiguous interpretation and unambiguous fact (and yes, it's a spectrum), as suggested by OMF, would be helpful to newbies.

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:39 am

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:*Citation needed*. I know that he drew her girly and idol-like under direct request of Anno, it's mentioned in the extra Renewal DVD, but I never heard anything about this.


http://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/evangelion/2006-November/003855.html
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Postby thewayneiac » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:44 am

View Original PostAilesGrises wrote:So yeah, I can write this stuff over the following weeks/months whenever I have more free time. First I guess we should go over things in this/and some other thread to make sure I don't replace someone else's bullshit with my own, right? So, yeah. (I'll go read the wiki guidelines and whatnot this weekend)If there's more I need to know, please tell me.


If your views differ significantly from an existing Wiki page, you should consider writing an entirely new article and linking to it from the original rather than replacing anything. (Given this thread, the Shinji/Asuka page is an obvious example.)
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
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What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?


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