Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:38 am

Having seen only the Kong movie by that director, I'm going to assume that's it's going to be a brainless action movie in the best of cases and an insult to the entire franchise in the worst.
Zero hope for this project, just like every other garbage anime to live action adaptation.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:56 am

Oh give me a rest. Fucking half of Gundam can already be described as "brainless action". This is one of the things that pisses me off the most about the whole reaction to this; anyone who claims that this will be "an insult to the franchise" clearly hasn't seen most of said franchise, because if you average out the quality of all the shows in it, there isn't a whole lot left to insult
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:35 am

The vast majority of Gundam I've seen are not brainless action. They are thoughtful commentaries on war. Some more nuanced than others, sure, but with plenty of stuff to chew on nonetheless. Granted, I haven't seen SEED or Wing yet, but even if those fit into that category, I would safely put all of the Tomino Gundams has way, way above brainless action. Does it have action? Yeah, and most of it is really good. Is that the main reason I like Gundam? Hell no.

If you don't like most Gundam anime, or think it doesn't go beyond action, that's fine by me, but don't assume everyone agrees with that take, because at the very least, I personally do not.

And while this is probably unavoidable even if this movie didn't come out or was good, I sure wouldn't be terribly pleased if it came out and gave the idea to most people that "Gundam goes pew pew" is the extent of its content.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:01 am

I do like Gundam, quite a lot actually; I've seen most of what there is. But a lot of it is not nearly as smart or deep as you're insinuating; and that's perfectly fine. Most of Gundam by volume is big dumb action, that's just a fact. Sure, there is other stuff in there, but claiming anything else just comes off as pretentious.
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:03 pm

I guess I'm pretentious then. I don't really mind if that's the case, I'll stand by most of Gundam (well, most of what I've seen, again, I've yet to touch Seed or Wing) being actually meaningful.

I'm not sure smart is the right word, but I do think there is worthwhile stuff to be discovered between the lines, even if a lot o the time characters like to scream what they want.
Well, I'm already repeating myself, I think I've explained my point.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:47 pm

There's definitely worthwhile stuff in there, no debate about that; but at the end of the day, it's still very much an action show first. I can go on for days about how I think this or that scene or plotline is amazingly done, but if you look on the whole, most of the runtime of any of the shows is very much still focused on big robots hitting each other and looking cool so they can sell toys.
Again that's not to mean that there isn't artistic merit; just that saying "this will just be big dumb action" is in no way different from what most of Gundam already is, and has been since the inception
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby The Killer of Heroes » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:17 pm

This discussion makes me wonder how many Gundam episodes don't have any kind of battle scene or mecha action bit.

Like Turn-A would almost certainly account for most of the episodes on that list, but second place would be...what, maybe IBO?

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:24 pm

I'd say it's more lots of talking and buildup to the battles that actually don't last that long, but I get what you mean.

That said, it being comprised of lots of action and being dumb action are kind of different things on my mind, and I can't help but think that if we are going with the amount of action in mind I'd also be able to describe Evangelion or Yamato or any mecha anime really, has mostly action with interesting stuff in the middle. It's accurate I guess but it really undersells the quality of them all.
Like, many were made with selling toys and the like in mind, what with 0079 having it's runtime shortened for not being successful and then being revived because of model sales, but it's just weird to me focusing on that aspect and not on the anti war message.

But I feel like I'm just complaining about word choice now, so feel free to ignore me.

And really, I should probably hold my jugement of the live action movie until I actually watch it. Even if it turns out like I think it will, I'm no fortune teller.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:49 pm

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:That said, it being comprised of lots of action and being dumb action are kind of different things on my mind, and I can't help but think that if we are going with the amount of action in mind I'd also be able to describe Evangelion or Yamato or any mecha anime really, has mostly action with interesting stuff in the middle. It's accurate I guess but it really undersells the quality of them all.
Like, many were made with selling toys and the like in mind, what with 0079 having it's runtime shortened for not being successful and then being revived because of model sales, but it's just weird to me focusing on that aspect and not on the anti war message.

I'd say that Gundam is a very different beast to Eva and Yamato. Yamato really just has one cool ship, and the show is mostly focused on the characters rather than the technology they use, so it can't really be described as a "toy commercial" to the same degree as Gundam can. Same thing with Eva: although the show does have quite a few neat designs, it's really telling that character figures for that show sell much more than Gundam-style plastic models based on the main robots. It's basically a show about human relationships and the way we live our lives, with added robot stuff to give it a mainstream appeal.

Gundam, on the other hand, has always been mainly intended to sell expensive toys. It focuses on the "wow cool robot" aspect much more, with endless new robots and retoolings of previous robots. The human element of it isn't very complicated, and basically boils down to "wars are bad and they cause bad things," which isn't a message that's exactly controversial. Not saying Gundam is bad by any means: simplistic action can certainly be fun and engaging. But calling it a deep, meaningful show just feels like Marvel fans who insist that Captain America 2 is a nuanced political thriller.

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:08 pm

Gundam, on the other hand, has always been mainly intended to sell expensive toys


The producers intended that, I'd be shocked if you could find evidence of Tomino or any of the directors saying the show is about that.
It's something that they had to take into account when making the anime, but I wouldn't call it the main intention.

And to clarify, I referred Yamato and Eva not because they were made with toy selling in mind, but thinking about the central role action plays in them. Yamato has battles every episode(the original anyway, the remake is a little different) and Evangelion almost does the same. But either way, the fact someone in the decision making team wanted it to sell toys or not doesn't erase the other elements.

Really, what I'm seeing is that I think Gundam is deeper(or smarter, whatever word you'd like) than you guys do, which I honestly wasn't expecting, because I was attracted to the franchise because of all the war stuff and not the cool robots and after watching it my ideas remain the same.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:02 pm

I should probably rephrase some of what I said; I by no means want to imply that Gundam is only action or that it doesn't have the themes you mentioned; that's certainly all there, and makes up a significant portion of the shows. Equally, throughout the various shows there absolutely are things I consider to be brilliantly written.
However (and this is the point that I admittedly phrased very poorly up until now), most of the shows have a ton of padding that could easily be left out, and the show would probably be better off for it, it's what I meant with "when average out the quality in it", just by episode count a third to half of Gundam's runtime is definitely just a quote battle shoved into an episode no matter if it fits or not; it's a pleasant surprise to me if the first half of any given Gundam show isn't boring or frustrating to watch. I'm one of the people who genuinely enjoyed Seed on the whole, but I'm the first to tell you that a solid third of the episodes could easily be left out entirely and with a bit of reshuffeling the story would not lose anything of value; much of the same for most others. The decisive battles and character drama in the show range among my favorites of any franchise; but for each of those, there's two completely inconsequential fights that serve no purpose other than being flashy and remind the viewer that there's still a war going on.
The exact ratio of that of course varies depending on the show; Wing, 00 and G for example are especially egregious in that regard, while the likes of Turn A or IBO tend to have less battles for the sake of battles, but there's almost always a few of them around.

BusterMachine4 wrote:I'd say that Gundam is a very different beast to Eva and Yamato. Yamato really just has one cool ship, and the show is mostly focused on the characters rather than the technology they use, so it can't really be described as a "toy commercial" to the same degree as Gundam can. Same thing with Eva: although the show does have quite a few neat designs, it's really telling that character figures for that show sell much more than Gundam-style plastic models based on the main robots. It's basically a show about human relationships and the way we live our lives, with added robot stuff to give it a mainstream appeal.

For all that I just said; what you're asserting is not exactly true, either. Or rather, the distinction you make is nonexistent, because the exact same thing can be said about Gundam: It's a story about people with robots added for mainstream appeal. Sorry to say this, but claiming that the two are fundamentally different in that regard is a strawman.
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby cyharding » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:38 pm

@Justacrazyguy: I get the sense that you believe the Netflix project is going to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator where it would be a typical action hero blowing up enemy mobile suits and loving every minute of it as some big breasted piece of eye candy who serves as the love interest watches on while some low key messaging that supports the military industrial complex is presented. I don't think that's going to happen. I remember when the project was first announced that Sunrise was working closely with Legendary, and that should include the story as well. And should it not be any good, it wouldn't hurt the franchise in any way as there are so many Gundam shows out there, with several of them with a bad reputation, the fans will chalk it up to being something that sucks as move on. If the franchise can survive AGE, it can survive a bad live action movie.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:43 pm

I mean, the franchise already has survived a bad live action movie, and by the miracle of PS2 game devs, we got something good even out of that.
Also I am willing to throw hands that Age is not the worst that Gundam has to offer.
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:58 am

View Original PostBlockio wrote: most of the shows have a ton of padding that could easily be left out, and the show would probably be better off for it, it's what I meant with "when average out the quality in it", just by episode count a third to half of Gundam's runtime is definitely just a quote battle shoved into an episode no matter if it fits or not;


Oh, in that case I agree, maybe not a third, but honestly I'd have to rewatch most of them to say with certainty, I really don't remember. The one I do remember having a lot of battles that at some point just felt pointless was Victory, if it was up to me I definitely would have cut, I don't know, 5 or 6 episodes out of it, and not just the battles, the entire thing.
Also I noticed that apparently the worst examples of battles just because battles you mention are all Alternate Universe stuff that I've yet to watch, so yeah, not looking forward to the day I finally pick them up. I did like ZZ and Victory though, so who knows.

If the franchise can survive AGE, it can survive a bad live action movie.


Obviously I don't think Gundam is going to get killed by a single live action movie, but it is possible that it will be watched by a hell of a lot more people than Age or Victory or :.insert Gundam with bad reputation here.:
Of course, you could just say that it's stupid for me to care about what random people think, and statistically most people are never going to watch most Gundam stuff, even if the movie is good, so yeah. I just got a really bad impression from the Kong movie the same director made and even with Sunrise working with them, I don't really have much hopes for it.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:51 am

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:The one I do remember having a lot of battles that at some point just felt pointless was Victory, if it was up to me I definitely would have cut, I don't know, 5 or 6 episodes out of it, and not just the battles, the entire thing.

As someone who is currently watching Victory; yeah, I agree. It got more bearable once they go to space insert joke about Trigger shows here, but honestly the first quarter is kind of a travesty.
Also I noticed that apparently the worst examples of battles just because battles you mention are all Alternate Universe stuff that I've yet to watch, so yeah, not looking forward to the day I finally pick them up. I did like ZZ and Victory though, so who knows.

That's mostly just because I have watched all of AU whereas I've only seen about a third to half of UC, so it's just a case of sampling bias.
FWIW that was one of my biggest gripes with TV 0079 when I tried to watch it way back in the day before I knew anything about Gundam, and ultimately the reason why I dropped it back then

Also on the topic of things G-Saviour did; the video game has some of the coolest shit to ever come out of UC in my opinion
Imagedump  SPOILER: Show
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EDIT: Not sure why those images come out as tiny as they do, but oh well
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:58 am

Changing topic slightly, I've been rewatching Unicorn after I bought the Blu ray recently (on ep 4 right now), and I'm still not sure how I feel about some of the intentional similarities to previous UC Gundam anime. On one side, the repetition of conflict, the toll on peoples minds and cycle of vengeance are great, and work so well precisely because Unicorn comes after so much other content. I wouldn't be nearly has effective if I hadn't seen the suffering caused on Zeta and ZZ and so on.
SPOILER: Show
The reutilization of the Puru from ZZ (a blink and you'll miss it thing in that anime) and making her a main character is a wonderful touch. It twists a hopeful ending into a tragedy and makes use of an aspect many people write of (the amount of people out there that say to skip ZZ are quite significant).

Of course, ideas similar to this had been done before, in slightly different forms in Victory and a few others, but it's executed well enough for me to accept this new take. It can also be read in a meta sort of way. The conflict of Gundam repeats do to the demands for more Gundam by the fans, essentially transforming what we see into a sort of twisted theater play, dragging and repeating conflict for the sake of entertainment. Maybe that is me reading too much into it, but it's fun to think about anyway.

However I still have a hard time accepting Full Frontal, he, like other things mentioned before, exists to repeat what happened in plenty of other anime in the franchise:
SPOILER: Show
"Wanted more Char? Here he is almost literally brought back from the dead!" There is an interesting conclusion for him at the end, if my memories of 2014 or so don't fail me, but despite that and the always great performance his Japanese VA brings, I still feel his existence is just too forced, meta commentary or not. His character just does not have enough individuality, which again, is part of the point but makes for a lot of lost potential.


Another small complaint is that some of the fights, while very well animated and a feast for the eyes, are sometimes focused on nameless nobodies, and thus have zero stakes or drama in them. This is made more noticeable than usual because fights are actually kind of scarce in the OVA when compared to Zeta or Victory or most Gundam for that matter.

Aside from these complaints, I've been having quite a lot of fun, and thanks to being more or less familiar with nearly all UC content now, the many references and nuances aren't lost on me as frequently.
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Re: Waiting for Evangelion:3.0+1.0

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Postby bobgoesw00t » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:05 pm

View Original PostCharPenPen wrote:It was announced today that Gundam: Hathaway will have a same day Blu-ray release next month. If only it could have been the same with Eva :/

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO, really excited about that! Been looking forward to seeing this part of the U.C. timeline get animated as we'll be one step closer to seeing the entire thing in video format. Really need to finish watching Zeta Gundam at some point xD
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Gus Hanson » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:54 pm

TBH, I have a hard time accepting Unicorn as UC lore not just because the Unicorn Gundam has always looked too gigantic for it's britches but because the story and characters feel boring and not worth it.
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Re: Waiting for Evangelion:3.0+1.0

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Postby cyharding » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:32 pm

View Original Postbobgoesw00t wrote:
View Original PostCharPenPen#920538 wrote:It was announced today that Gundam: Hathaway will have a same day Blu-ray release next month. If only it could have been the same with Eva :/

Has that been confirmed? I'm asking because there's nothing posted on Gundaminfo and I would have received e-mails from a couple places about it already.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:34 pm

I've seen the announcement around, I'll see if I can find it again
EDIT: Found it
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu


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