Masturbating on top of a comatose body

[kuribo-04]

The next person that talks about Shinjey Ikarey receives a virtual hug.

[KnightmareX13]

I thot we made'm walk the plank, boss?

only the repeat ones 1st offense lashes
2nd the plank

[Reichu]

I think I'm just gonna take this thread out back and shoot it.

[Chuckman]

Split from Misato's Kiss. -NemZ

Masturbating doesn't make you mature.

Trust me.

[Kendrix]

At least not when done in this sort of context.

It's not like Asuka was awake and participating, or like he didn't regret it immediately afterwards.

Sure, he's very far from being at same level as your average exhibistionist pervy old man due to mitigating factors like being a horny teenager, in the middle of a major mental breakdown, AND having been relentlessly abused by the victim in question, but Asuka could pretty much (deservedly!) get him fined for sexual harassment if she felt like it.

Not to mention that the whole thing was a "revenge fantasy" sort of thing that he didn't even dare execute when she can actually react, let alone tell her to her face, which is not a very mature thing to do at all.
A mature person would deal with the fact that she's unconcious, and, if she wasn't, just tell her that that they don't like the way she's been treating them and realize that it is not the (literal) end of the world if she has complaints of her own or flat out doesn't want to commit.

I get the whole point of "Shinji's been through a lot more serious situations and life-altering experiences than your average teenager and may thus understand at least some more serious things better" and would even partially agree with it (allthough it is important not to forget the 'some'), but the whle fap scene is NOT an example for it.

[movieartman]

Masturbating doesn't make you mature.

Trust me.

At least not when done in this sort of context.

It's not like Asuka was awake and participating, or like he didn't regret it immediately afterwards.

Sure, he's very far from being at same level as your average exhibistionist pervy old man due to mitigating factors like being a horny teenager, in the middle of a major mental breakdown, AND having been relentlessly abused by the victim in question, but Asuka could pretty much (deservedly!) get him fined for sexual harassment if she felt like it.

Not to mention that the whole thing was a "revenge fantasy" sort of thing that he didn't even dare execute when she can actually react, let alone tell her to her face, which is not a very mature thing to do at all.
A mature person would deal with the fact that she's unconcious, and, if she wasn't, just tell her that that they don't like the way she's been treating them and realize that it is not the (literal) end of the world if she has complaints of her own or flat out doesn't want to commit.

I get the whole point of "Shinji's been through a lot more serious situations and life-altering experiences than your average teenager and may thus understand at least some more serious things better" and would even partially agree with it (allthough it is important not to forget the 'some'), but the whle fap scene is NOT an example for it.

Lol my bad I wast clear i completely agree with what you both have said here

What I meant was is that while the masterbation act itself was pure immaturaty let loose from his failing mental state, I was pointing out that his own realization of the wrongness of the act in that situaton that was mature

[Kendrix]

No - it's just being less immature about it than he possibly could be.

It doesn't take much maturity to realize that this is wrong, just common decency we expect from every human being.


Our very act of living together in cities relies on the assumption/"contract" that we're less likely to get murdered/robbed/sexually harassed than we are not to.

[NemZ]

Not to mention that the whole thing was a "revenge fantasy" sort of thing that he didn't even dare execute when she can actually react, let alone tell her to her face, which is not a very mature thing to do at all.

I don't agree with this reading of the scene. While I fully agree he'd never do this if she was awake, I don't think there's a 'revenge' motive. He came to her for desperate comfort and found a way to attempt to find some even without her participation. He definately didn't have this in mind when he walked in the room, and if not for the accidental wardrobe malfunction it would likely never have occurred to him.

[movieartman]

No - it's just being less immature about it than he possibly could be.

It doesn't take much maturity to realize that this is wrong, just common decency we expect from every human being.


Our very act of living together in cities relies on the assumption/"contract" that we're less likely to get murdered/robbed/sexually harassed than we are not to.

Fair enough

[Chuckman]

I don't agree with this reading of the scene. While I fully agree he'd never do this if she was awake, I don't think there's a 'revenge' motive. He came to her for desperate comfort and found a way to attempt to find some even without her participation. He definately didn't have this in mind when he walked in the room, and if not for the accidental wardrobe malfunction it would likely never have occurred to him.

He committed a crime against her to inspire hatred towards himself. Shinji wants to die but lacks the will to commit suicide, so he lashes out to give people enough reason to hate him that he can feel justified in taking his own life.

That's why there's no actual molestation in the scene. The intent of his act is to insult her, not actually hurt her, because Shinji is too timid to hurt anyone.

Hence the significance in the final scene: Shinji finally has the will to bring others harm while Asuka has the will to express compassion.

[NemZ]

He committed a crime against her to inspire hatred towards himself.

That would only make sense if he was trying to get caught, but that's not what happened here. This was a private act, a secret shame he thought he could get away with, and he did (at least until instrumentality made all secrets public).

[movieartman]

That would only make sense if he was trying to get caught, but that's not what happened here. This was a private act, a secret shame he thought he could get away with, and he did (at least until instrumentality made all secrets public).

Yeah I'm totally gonna have to side with this interpretation of events

[thewayneiac]

That would only make sense if he was trying to get caught, but that's not what happened here. This was a private act, a secret shame he thought he could get away with, and he did (at least until instrumentality made all secrets public).

Though I've always wondered how he got away with it, since it's been established that there are security cameras in Asuka's hospital room.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

It's entirely possible that Misato saw the deed. That would shine a much different light on the way she treats him during the movie. However, it's also possible that nobody was watching the monitor. Assuming that the transition from Shinji's baby-batter to the shot of the command center was chronologically linear, nobody would have been watching the cameras.

[NemZ]

Either nobody was watching the feed or they were but didn't really care.

[Bagheera]

That would only make sense if he was trying to get caught, but that's not what happened here. This was a private act, a secret shame he thought he could get away with, and he did (at least until instrumentality made all secrets public).

I think what Chuckman was getting at was that he was doing something so vile that he could justify taking his own life (recall the opening scene of the film, wherein he couldn't manage to do it). Whether or not Asuka would actually hate him is irrelevant; he knew full well that she would if she knew about it, and that's what matters to him.

This would all be fanwank, but for one thing: he locked the door. No matter his motivation his actions were deliberate and premeditated, not spontaneous. The only question at that point is why he chose to do it when he knew it was so fucked up. Chuckman's explanation (if I'm reading it right) fits. Terrible people do terrible things, after all. Shinji believes himself to be a terrible person, so now he's gone and proven it. Not he needn't feel bad about taking his own life.

[Guy Nacks]

It's entirely possible that Misato saw the deed. That would shine a much different light on the way she treats him during the movie. However, it's also possible that nobody was watching the monitor. Assuming that the transition from Shinji's baby-batter to the shot of the command center was chronologically linear, nobody would have been watching the cameras.

This would actually be a really good question to ask Anno if we ever got the chance. What about Section 2? Aren't they, like, non-stop keeping tabs on Shinji for Gendo? The very first time I watched EOE, I was seriously wondering whether Gendo was informed about the hospital scene.

[NemZ]

Oh, he knew what he was doing was wrong, sure. I just think it was motivated by opportunistic escapism rather than some backwards scheme to justify suicide to himself.

[Bagheera]

Oh, he knew what he was doing was wrong, sure. I just think it was motivated by opportunistic escapism rather than some backwards scheme to justify suicide to himself.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he planned it out or anything. I just think the "terrible people do terrible things . . . " line of thinking is the ultimate motivator there, and that he wasn't doing it just because he could get away with it.

[Chuckman]

You're reading me right, Bagheera. "I am fucked up, therefore I do this thing" rather than "I did this thing, therefore I am fucked up".

Although there is a clear element of "Yeah will if you won't wake up and talk to me than try this, bitch!" to it. It doesn't have to be either/or, but the nature of what he did speaks to an externalization of his self loathing, an attempt to become the person he thinks he is.