Masturbating on top of a comatose body

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

I think that we know that what Shinji does is bad, so maybe we should start with character analysis.

Good idea.

By the time EoE starts, Shinji's pretty much an emotional wreck. If he was in a bad state when the show started, then he's pretty much just a massive, ugly hulking sack of depression and self-pity by the end. When he goes to Asuka's room, I think he truly did plan on getting some kind of closure with her. However, why Asuka? He's too scared of confrontation with his father, and Misato frightens him after pretty much offering to have sex with him. Asuka is the easy way out. When she doesn't wake up and he accidentally pulls her clothing open, we all know what happens next. The opportunity was there, and he took it. Of course, he had the frame of mind to lock the door; I guess he didn't want anybody seeing what he was doing. The shame I have a hard time placing. Obviously he's ashamed of spanking the monkey over a teenaged girl, but there's more to it than that. If you want a psyche analysis, by masturbating over her he is infusing her with his libido and expecting some sort of reciprocation or retaliation. Instead, he doesn't get anything. Since he has nothing to replace his libido, he gets a minor destrudo, prompting his line, "I'm so fucked up." For a more practical reason, he's masturbating over her because that's what he feels like he needs to do, and by being there she is helping him. She's not his mother, she's not his guardian; these facts make it all the easier to use her as a release of sexual tension. What walked into Asuka's room was a massive bag of tension, hormones, and emotions called Shinji Ikari.

Wow, I really needed to get that out.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Wow, I really needed to get that out.

~That's what he said!~

(srsly though nice post)

[kuribo-04]

Good idea.

Thanks. This is what this thread needs. But I don't like the "I'm so fucked up." line. It changes the scene. Shinji wouldn't say that. "I'm scum." is much better. Fak de dub.

[CJD]

That is what I perceive is going on in here, as far as the quality of argumentation on the issue.

I'm uhh... I'm not defending Shinji on this one but I uhh... I assume you know the context is different in the examples you give, right? And you're just trying to show that "just because she wasn't aware of it it's OK" doesn't fly?

[Bryan]

Okay I'm going to try phrasing this a third time, in hopes of it meeting with approval of the internet police.

*ahem*

Now, one might think that what Shinji did at the beginning of EoE was just harmless and no one has grounds to really complain or to compare it to other bad things. But.
What if Asuka was, say, seven years old, and your daughter. How about then.
What if it were a pedo adult walking into a classroom full of sleeping kids who just had their milk and cookies, doing his business without touching any of them, and leaving.
That is what I perceive is going on in here, as far as the quality of argumentation on the issue.

This robotically delivered message hopefully approved for your reading by the internet police. Thank you and good day.

By making it personal, you're only allowing your emotions into the equation instead of trying to look at it objectively and make a rational decision. We all know what we'd all do in that situation. That doesn't change anything.

[Seele00TextOnly]

By making it personal, you're only allowing your emotions into the equation instead of trying to look at it objectively and make a rational decision. We all know what we'd all do in that situation. That doesn't change anything.

Wow you've got a point it's totally unfair for me to make it personal. It's almost like I don't know the first thing about being a sociopath. I'm not supposed to think of ~other~ people who ~aren't~ personal to me as if they were personal to me, because then I might care! And that's just ridiculous. No the best way to think of other people is as distantly and impersonally as possible, at all times if need be.

I think we've all learned a very valuable lesson today in logic, thought processes, ethics, and morality. Thank you, Bryan. Thank you.

[Bryan]

Wow you've got a point it's totally unfair for me to make it personal. It's almost like I don't know the first thing about being a sociopath. I'm not supposed to think of ~other~ people who ~aren't~ personal to me as if they were personal to me, because then I might care! And that's just ridiculous. No the best way to think of other people is as distantly and impersonally as possible, at all times if need be.

I think we've all learned a very valuable lesson today in logic, thought processes, ethics, and morality. Thank you, Bryan. Thank you.

Funny, but there's something you're not considering. You're showing absolutely no empathy for the pedo.

[Seele00TextOnly]

You're showing absolutely no empathy for the pedo.

Correctamundo

[Dream]

Wow you've got a point it's totally unfair for me to make it personal. It's almost like I don't know the first thing about being a sociopath.

The best thing of this thread

In any case, i must admit this has been a very interesting thread in many different levels.

@Nuclear Lunchbox: If you don't mind me asking, exactly why would Shinji expect some sort of response on her part? To me that scene always came off as Shinji dealing with the fact Asuka's gone. So it doesn't make much sense to me that he would try to incite any sort of response from her.

[Bryan]

Correctamundo

It should be obvious, but since it's not I'll elaborate. It is NOT anyone's fault for being attracted to any type of person. It's as much a pedo's fault for being attracted to children as it is a gay person's fault for being attracted to the same sex. And just like we used to force gay people to live torturous lives, we do the same thing to pedos because of our lack of understanding. Of course, it's going to be many, many years before any society would actually be able to obtain that understanding, but that doesn't make it ok to consider them as less than human before they even do anything wrong just like it was just as wrong to do what we used to do to gay people. The one and ONLY difference is what a pedo's desires are telling him to do has a billion times more potential to have something bad happen.

[Dream]

How is this guy not banned?

[CJD]

It should be obvious, but since it's not I'll elaborate. It is NOT anyone's fault for being attracted to any type of person. It's as much a pedo's fault for being attracted to children as it is a gay person's fault for being attracted to the same sex. And just like we used to force gay people to live torturous lives, we do the same thing to pedos because of our lack of understanding. Of course, it's going to be many, many years before any society would actually be able to obtain that understanding, but that doesn't make it ok consider them as less than human before they even do anything wrong just like it was just as wrong to do what we used to do to gay people. The one and ONLY difference is what a pedo's desires are telling him to do has a billion times more potential to have something bad happen.

Uhh, I'm one of those people who think pedophiles deserve our sympathy because, just like you say, it's a biological disorder. They're sick, not sickos. But that sympathy ends the moment they act on their desires. That's the moment they become sickos and I stop feeling sympathy or empathy for them.

[Bryan]

Uhh, I'm one of those people who think pedophiles deserve our sympathy because, just like you say, it's a biological disorder. They're sick, not sickos. But that sympathy ends the moment they act on their desires. That's the moment they become sickos and I stop feeling sympathy or empathy for them.

That's good. Please help me in telling Seele00TextOnly to stop being so disrespectful to them.

[CJD]

That's good. Please help me in telling Seele00TextOnly to stop being so disrespectful to them.

Seele's not giving empathy to a pedophile who act's on his desires, I'm not either.

[KnightmareX13]

Oiy Pedo gets a taste of the cat o' nine on my ship

[Felipe]

Although there is a good reason to criminalize the acting upon sexual thoughts about children (children can't consent, so there's harm being done), it is true that pedophiles aren't any more responsible for their feelings towards prepubescent children than heterosexual men for heterosexual women. That's why we lock up people with mental illnesses in mental institutions, and not prisons. So there is the possibility we might just be doing the wrong thing regarding pedophiles.

[Bryan]

Seele's not giving empathy to a pedophile who act's on his desires, I'm not either.

Masturbation doesn't affect anyone, but yourself. It might as well not be an act, but simply a thought.

So there is the possibility we might just be doing the wrong thing regarding pedophiles.

Absolutely. It's as much a "mental illness" as homosexuality for exactly the reasons you said.

[kuribo-04]

It should be obvious, but since it's not I'll elaborate. It is NOT anyone's fault for being attracted to any type of person. It's as much a pedo's fault for being attracted to children as it is a gay person's fault for being attracted to the same sex. And just like we used to force gay people to live torturous lives, we do the same thing to pedos because of our lack of understanding. Of course, it's going to be many, many years before any society would actually be able to obtain that understanding, but that doesn't make it ok to consider them as less than human before they even do anything wrong just like it was just as wrong to do what we used to do to gay people. The one and ONLY difference is what a pedo's desires are telling him to do has a billion times more potential to have something bad happen.

I hadn't got any problem with what you were saying, but now you've crossed the line. You crossed hard.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=mjQZNkiY7ds&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DmjQZNkiY7ds

[CJD]

Oiy Pedo gets a taste of the cat o' nine on my ship

I thot we made'm walk the plank, boss?

[Seele00TextOnly]

That's good. Please help me in telling Seele00TextOnly to stop being so disrespectful to them.

Yeah you'll notice in my original post on the matter even, I'm talking about actions not desires. Actions matter. Even when you try to rationalize away that they don't. (God I'd hate to see your opinion on the matter of proliferation, purchase, and ownership of child porn.)

Violating someone is violating them. You can't neatly rationalize that away; as you can see you're pretty much failing to in the eyes of anyone with that mysterious sense known as the conscience.