All mysteries revealed.... good or bad?

This is a forum for casual discussion of Evangelion. Topics like "Asuka is hot!" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?" belong here.

Moderator: Board Staff

defiate
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 122
Joined: Nov 07, 2005

All mysteries revealed.... good or bad?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby defiate » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:38 pm

Maybe this has been killed many times in the past, but with the release of Evangelion Chronicles and Evangelions 2: Another Cases in Japan, it begs the questions: Is Evangelion still alive today because of everlasting debates over it? And will revealing the answers to everything kill the series?

Both items I mentioned above promised to reveal fascinating information on the Eva world and uncover mysteries we still passionately debate over, but ended up as a big lie (Not yet true for the Evangelion Chronicles).

People seeking answers end up disappointed, but imagine this scenario: everything in the Evangelion world was explained by Anno himself; every religious reference, every visual motif and every connection. We would read it, and stop debating about Evangelion entirely- there's nothing left to debate over except who is cuter, Asuka or Rei? This forum and many other evangelion forums would empty out, and without debates to remind people of Evangelion and its former mysteries the series will vanish from most of our minds.

We might be near that stage, we might not be. Maybe Anno figured that out and will never explain the key mysteries but decided to continue releasing and franchising false hope of explanation to the masses just so his piggy bank grows.

What do you think about it?

SEELE 08
Arael
Arael
User avatar
Posts: 871
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Location: Redneck Paradise

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SEELE 08 » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:51 pm

All I want is more info on Keel, Rei, Kaworu, and SEELE so nonsense like the wandering jew and SEELE as an offshoot of the Nazis can be laid to rest once and for all.
I heart Encyclopedia Dramatica!
THAT WIKI/Aspergers

Legend of the Past
Sandalphon
Sandalphon
User avatar
Posts: 510
Joined: Jul 08, 2006

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Legend of the Past » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:57 pm

This is on the same line as 'Are we overanalysing here? Maybe Anno didn't think about this at all? Maybe we're just saying things Anno never even thought about and just happan to fit?'

I dunno. Anno is a cunning guy... A very cunning guy... but from what we've seen, he doesn't care about fan reaction or money. He cares about his work, and it's reflectable in EoE- Even after billions of years, Evangelion will still be there. And that would be the final, decisive proof Anno existed. That seemed to me like the words of an Artist who cares for his work.
New Signature Policy

It all returns to nothing...

Reichu
Death True True
Death True True
User avatar
Posts: 23759
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Starship Eva
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: All mysteries revealed.... good or bad?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:37 pm

defiate wrote:Maybe this has been killed many times in the past, but with the release of Evangelion Chronicles and Evangelions 2: Another Cases in Japan, it begs the questions: Is Evangelion still alive today because of everlasting debates over it? And will revealing the answers to everything kill the series?

[Both items I mentioned above promised to reveal fascinating information on the Eva world and uncover mysteries we still passionately debate over, but ended up as a big lie (Not yet true for the Evangelion Chronicles).

The PS2 port of NGE2 actually isn't the same as the original; it's been modified and expanded somewhat, from what I understand. Do you know if the "big, fat lie" part applies equally well to both versions of the game? (Cuz I don't.)

People seeking answers end up disappointed, but imagine this scenario: everything in the Evangelion world was explained by Anno himself... What do you think about it?

Being spoonfed everything would suck. I rather like the problem-solving aspect of things, as it appeals to my 'scientific sensibilities'. But there are certain problems, such as the fact that the clues are so enormously sparse, or plentiful but extraordinarily cryptic, in certain areas that one has to engage in the sort of problem-solving that becomes designated "fan-wankage" in order to address it (even if it really isn't -- what begin as theories are sometimes vindicated later in official leakages, or in an older source rendered long inaccessible by that annoying J/E barrier). In a lot of ways, it's a big game of groping around in the dark, since there are certain things that have simply not been "spelled out", and where even the tidbits provided post-anime muddle more than they clarify. If you navigate the winding tunnels of misinformation, cryptic hints, cipher, etc., and successfully find the actual answer to something, how do you know for a fact that you have? You oftentimes don't, although a theory can cooperate so well with everything that it just as well could be spot-on.

Are these sorts of disadvantages worth it? If everything was explained in plain words, NGE wouldn't be nearly as much fun. As things stand, Anno-tachi are probably a bit more cruel than they need to be. But, yeah, if the scenario you describe above actually occurred, much of the geekdom would be shot dead on the spot, and I would enter such a severe state of shock that I would need to be hospitalized for approximately one year and five months.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

Ripple_in_Eternity
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 60
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Location: Where Heaven meets Earth

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ripple_in_Eternity » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:04 pm

I've often wondered how much time Anno spent on his work, if all we've come to assume is just a fabrication... I sometimes wondered if Eva became a game for Anno.

Those thoughts were permanently exstinguished when I realized how perfectly everything fit together. Rewatching the series meticulously, I found that so much had a double meaning. The second of said meaning could only be understood after watching the series end and EoE. Having everything fit so perfectly(with the exeption of the minor plot holes) would take months to perfectly orchestrate.

Would Anno even allow such a thing to be ruined by spoon-feeding?

I wouldn't!
No matter how badly you screw up, the sun will still rise tomorrow.

Current Avatar: Myself as a cowboy...don't ask.

Reichu
Death True True
Death True True
User avatar
Posts: 23759
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Starship Eva
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:22 pm

It is ludicrously difficult to fit everything together, if it is possible at all. Nearly every time I thought something actually made sense, it would turn out that something wasn't taken into consideration, or some new tidbit of information turned up, or stuff was jolted out of place by 'assembly work' being done in 'adjacent fields'. Incredibly tedious. And the terrible truth is that "the more you know, the more you don't know".
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

Ripple_in_Eternity
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 60
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Location: Where Heaven meets Earth

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ripple_in_Eternity » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:34 pm

Well, take this for example, Reichu: Imagine the total number of hours you've spent researching Eva. Now, imagine how much time and effort went into making it. All I'm saying is, that Anno didn't half-ass it. Granted, sometimes things dont fit together, but think of it like a web with every point conecting to every other (I dont care if there are no webs like that) Sooner or later, if you keep adding points, you wont be able to connect them all. Every reference can't take into consideration every other reference everytime.
No matter how badly you screw up, the sun will still rise tomorrow.

Current Avatar: Myself as a cowboy...don't ask.

defiate
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 122
Joined: Nov 07, 2005

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby defiate » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:00 am

"fan-wankage"... LOL! anyways...

Reichu wrote:The PS2 port of NGE2 actually isn't the same as the original; it's been modified and expanded somewhat, from what I understand. Do you know if the "big, fat lie" part applies equally well to both versions of the game? (Cuz I don't.)

Yeah I own both versions of the game, and the key differences between the two is in gameplay. In the newer one (the PSP version) instead of just an AT gauge there is also an Impulse gauge that accumulates as bad things happens to the character. Using Impulse points you could make your character do things such as compliment, hug or get close to someone else. In battle, using impulse points allows you to temporarily enhance one or a few of your Eva's attacks. Other than that there are a few more "events" and the 3D rendered version of "Cruel Angel's Thesis" is cut so it all fits onto a PSP UMD disc.

and now (finally) to answer your question- The "Big Fat LIE" part is exactly the same in both. No new classified info was put into the PSP remake.

Reichu wrote: But there are certain problems, such as the fact that the clues are so enormously sparse, or plentiful but extraordinarily cryptic, in certain areas that one has to engage in the sort of problem-solving that becomes designated "fan-wankage" in order to address it (even if it really isn't -- what begin as theories are sometimes vindicated later in official leakages, or in an older source rendered long inaccessible by that annoying J/E barrier). In a lot of ways, it's a big game of groping around in the dark, since there are certain things that have simply not been "spelled out", and where even the tidbits provided post-anime muddle more than they clarify.


My take on this issue is that Anno either accidentally did this, or he is a freaking genius. What I am referring to is of course the lack of information that fans are filling with theories. In a sense everyone who is coming up with new explanations and ideas that aren't too far fetched or nutty is adding their own little chapter, their own personality or their personal feelings to the story. THAT is why Evangelion is such a runaway success- because people become emotionally attatched to their take on the whole thing, and with enough room for variations chances are someone else will have another point of view and the two will come together in a forum like this and debate over it.

I think it would be ironically cruel if Anno reveals everything about Evangelion on his deathbed. Evangelion would end with a whimper instead of a bang. It's going to be known as "The Geeky Whimper Heard Around the World"

Imagine the total number of hours you've spent researching Eva. Now, imagine how much time and effort went into making it. All I'm saying is, that Anno didn't half-ass it.

He was three-quarters-assing it for the first ten episodes I think.
The connectivity of references are no indication of how much work is put into a story; making points connect in an anime or in any story is the most basic thing to do. If nothing connected or if the connections between references were weak then you wouldn't have much of a story. Eva is simply better than others at references because there's a balance between four references- the ones that are spoon fed to you, the ones that require a little bit of thinking, the ones that you need to research into and finally, the ones that mean nothing (red herrings)

BLACKANGEL32076
Sachiel
User avatar
Age: 44
Posts: 202
Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Location: Clearwater, FL, USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby BLACKANGEL32076 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:19 am

I would rather see Anno and company come out and clear some things up rather than leave things up for mis interpretation.
-...because a lot can happen in 24hrs.
-"Consistancy people, consistancy!!!"-George Carlin

Hunter21
Pilot
Pilot
User avatar
Age: 42
Posts: 2020
Joined: Jun 21, 2004
Location: Land of 11,842 Lakes
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hunter21 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:46 pm

I would never watch Evangelion again if I was spoon fed the answers.
EVANGERIONANIME is stupid

Come Join the Sakaki Fan Club!

Remember you're on Evageeks, where preset personal delusions outweigh reality.

Eternal Yamcha
Ramiel
Ramiel
User avatar
Posts: 345
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Location: Beertown (Portland), Oreg
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eternal Yamcha » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:51 am

Is Evangelion still alive today because of everlasting debates over it? And will revealing the answers to everything kill the series?

1. That and the fact that it's such a respectable anime.
2. For many, it might. I, for one, wouldn't stop watching the series if I was spoonfed the answers (assuming everything had a meaning in the series) because I would be able to sit down and enjoy re-watching the series for the Xth time now that I could see it from the "true" perspective and understood everything.

What sets me apart from being on par about Evangelion that many of the people here is the fact I just love the series... While finding out information about it and analyzing the ever loving crap out of it is a fun part, the series in general means a lot to me. If I wanted to really understand the series, I wouldn't have gone nearly 6 months without watching a single episode... And I honestly do believe many people out there share similar opinions as mine.

...But, that's just me. I may or may not have brought a different perspective/answer to your question.

DatDude
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2784
Joined: Jun 21, 2004
Location: Jersey arm-pit of the eas
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DatDude » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:44 am

EVA's still around because its become like Akira, an anime that love it or hate it most anime fans have seen.
There was an EVA Nerd here, but now he's gone.

defiate
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 122
Joined: Nov 07, 2005

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby defiate » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:58 pm

if in a hundred years there's such a genre as "classical anime".. Evangelion would be up there with Akira, Astro-boy, Doraemon and Gundam. Those would be the mozarts and beethovens of anime.

Legend of the Past
Sandalphon
Sandalphon
User avatar
Posts: 510
Joined: Jul 08, 2006

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Legend of the Past » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:08 pm

defiate wrote:if in a hundred years there's such a genre as "classical anime".. Evangelion would be up there with Akira, Astro-boy, Doraemon and Gundam. Those would be the mozarts and beethovens of anime.


One could claim they already are.
New Signature Policy

It all returns to nothing...

Phaze
Sandalphon
Sandalphon
User avatar
Posts: 548
Joined: Jun 21, 2004
Location: Classified

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Phaze » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:10 pm

What mysteries are left anyway? I can think of a few unanswered questions, but fans seem to have done a good job of filling in most of the plot holes.
The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!

DatDude
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2784
Joined: Jun 21, 2004
Location: Jersey arm-pit of the eas
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DatDude » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:16 pm

Phaze wrote:What mysteries are left anyway? I can think of a few unanswered questions, but fans seem to have done a good job of filling in most of the plot holes.


I ask myself that question a lot on eva boards :wink:
There was an EVA Nerd here, but now he's gone.

Mr. Tines
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 62
Posts: 20450
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Location: This sceptered isle.
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:36 pm

Phaze wrote:What mysteries are left anyway?


As soon as you try and string things together into a unified whole, the bits still don't quite line up, And there are still discoveries to make - things like "What exactly happened in 2I?"

Image

Woah! What the hell is that in the top left corner?!

Image

ctd.
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics||MAL
Avatar: Mahou Shoujo Rapture Asuka : "Slice them up with your magical karambit, chu!"

DatDude
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2784
Joined: Jun 21, 2004
Location: Jersey arm-pit of the eas
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DatDude » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:45 pm

I dont mean to beat a dead horse here but I don't see mysteries to mentioned as being important to eva, really.


Tines wrote:As soon as you try and string things together into a unified whole, the bits still don't quite line up, And there are still discoveries to make


Umm eva has flaws and plot holes not everything fits.

Tines wrote: "What exactly happened in 2I?"


The stage got set for the story. Is their anything else that we need to understand ?

Tines wrote:Woah! What the hell is that in the top left corner?!


If you asked anno how important those half visable blurry markings are to the stroy, what do you think he'd say?
There was an EVA Nerd here, but now he's gone.

TheBlueTree
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Posts: 367
Joined: Jul 02, 2005

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby TheBlueTree » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:46 pm

Omg i have missed you so eva forums! I love you all here, its nice to see the old faces :D im so happy, ive forggotten about this awsome place until yesterday! ANYWAY!

I dont think there will be a end of the fandom, people will just debate weather this is the correct answer they provided or not, a new day, a new theory, a new argument, a new fan ;D
Mr. Bud
"Suits? You've got to be kidding me.
Mighty Morphin' Ev-an-gel-i-ooooonnnn!"

Seele 08
"Is it a sign that you might be an otaku when your betta fish are all named after anime characters? One betta is named....Gendo. No wonder my mom and freinds think I'm a nut case."

Legend of the Past
Sandalphon
Sandalphon
User avatar
Posts: 510
Joined: Jul 08, 2006

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Legend of the Past » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:47 pm

Yeah, Anno sure does know to make things complicated. By leaving so much up to the viewer he made sure NGE would stay alive for a long long time. I've always saw the 'EVA will be the evidence mankind ever existed' dialogue in the end of EoE as Anno saying 'EVA is eternal, and it is proof I was here'.
New Signature Policy

It all returns to nothing...


Return to “Evangelion Chit-Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests