One More Final: I Need You; a parable of human interaction.

[SEELE]

Though that's not saying much. Also, we've never seen Asuka fake being nice, at least not with him. As I said, the gesture loses all meaning if she's faking it.

Yup thats exactly what i was thinking.
But something pops everytime in my mind. Thanatos - if i can't be yours.
This songs tells us to move on and there is no such way of loving. Pretty much the lines:

So I must, let us break free I can never be what you need
If there was a way, through the hurt then I would fint it I'd take the
blows. Yes I would fight it But this is the one. Impossible dream
to love What am I, if I can't be yours.

It is pretty much something like the starting of Instrumentality.
Why would Anno choose something like this in both endings of 25' & 26'?
To the rest - agreed.

[Bagheera]

It is pretty much something like the starting of Instrumentality.
Why would Anno choose something like this in both endings of 25' & 26'?

It helps to remember two things here: first, Shinji is not the only protagonist in the show. Second, the official music video for that song deals with Misato and her relationship with Kaji. Make of that what you will.

[Kendrix]

^Yeah.

It seems like a sort of breakup or tragic romance ending song, but there's nothing suggesting it' specifically about Shinji.

Besides Misato, Rei could also be a candidate (because 'Thanatos'), or it could just be discribing the general depressing mood of the movie up to that point, or people giving up on connecting, or failing to, in general.

[Orkki]

I think Asuka was taken by Shinji's cries for her help, realizing during instrumentality that someone really needed her, and gave back a gentle, motherly gesture concerning his needs. It might be construed that during instrumentality they realized that they can give each other what they can't provide for themselves. They achieved the balance between the spikes and the eradiating heat of the hedgehogs, i.e empathy, mutual understanding and altruism but not to the point of self-erasure like in instrumentality.

As for the "disgusting" part, it could signify that Asuka's ego hasn't completely changed or erased despite the aforementioned bit of character development, and also that during instrumentality no page was left unturned (including the little bedside incident). Mmm, such a simple, funny and telling word of parting for the series.

[NemZ]

I always pictured Rei singing that as well, both because it's built on Thanatos and it just fits the way Shinji eventually shoots down her offer of godhood to go back to boring reality, leaving her with all sorts of questions to sort out for herself in the infinate now that awaits.

Asuka is right to call him an idiot.

[Chuckman]

Eh, she can just go observe all the other possible Shinjis that did accept her offer.

[NemZ]

True, there's always that. But still, I expect she'd rather be one of them then the eternal observer, so the tragic sense of the song still shines through.

[Monk Ed]

Also the potential she didn't get the reaction she expected.

Er... Wow... This is my first time seeing this, and all of sudden it's just like, "Oh. That could make sense."

It's like, what if Asuka's response was not to what Shinji was doing after that caress, but rather to what he was not doing?

Here she is finally being nice to him, giving him a touch, and all he does is cry instead of ... well, lots of potential things.

[SEELE]

Er... Wow... This is my first time seeing this, and all of sudden it's just like, "Oh. That could make sense."

It's like, what if Asuka's response was not to what Shinji was doing after that caress, but rather to what he was not doing?

Here she is finally being nice to him, giving him a touch, and all he does is cry instead of ... well, lots of potential things.

Yeah if i think about it ... it really does make sense. "Kimochi warui" in this context make even more sense - maybe she only wanted a hug what the fuck i'm talking about? This is Asuka we were talking about ... pfff

[pwhodges]

C'mon, after all he's been through, and in those surroundings, is he really expected to start instantly to behave conventionally?

[Bagheera]

C'mon, after all he's been through, and in those surroundings, is he really expected to start instantly to behave conventionally?

But turn that around: after all she's been through, is she really expected to take that reaction well?

[Monk Ed]

In other words, back to square one! Except this time they're aware of it and so can begin the process of changing it.

[SEELE]

But turn that around: after all she's been through, is she really expected to take that reaction well?

I think Asuka would likely do it with him and so on. I can imagine that she infest Shinji at the first possible occasion.

[Monk Ed]

I can imagine that she infest Shinji at the first possible occasion.

I have no idea what you just said.

[robersora]

^
Native-German-spearker to the rescue! SEELE tried to say, that Asuka might jump onto Shinji and fuck his brain out on the first occasion. Well, if nobody decides to return from tang, they have to repopulate earth somehow.

[Sorrow]

The first time I saw the End of Evangelion and the ending, I took her comment to show her disappointment in Shinji's lack of conviction.

He was choking her, in my mind, to confirm reality. To her, she doesn't know why Shinji has decided to choke her, but he has, she understands and accepts he wants to, for whatever reason he may have, and so she caresses his face in approval, accepting him for his actions. That isn't to say she also wished to be strangled to death, only she's approving of Shinji's decision to take matters into his own hands.

Upon Asuka's reaction, I think Shinji takes this as a sign of it being the real Asuka and he relents, either disgusted with himself for what he was doing or actually relieved it's really her. He stops the assault and begins to cry on top of her.

To Asuka, who doesn't know Shinji's intentions, he has just once again proved to her that he lacks conviction, a will of his own to take matters into his own hands and see things through to the end. She even approved of his decision and he still backed away from it. This causes her to confirm that he is pathetic, weak and worthless. Hence her disgust.

That was my initial take on their actions in that scene at any rate, not that anyone asked for it.

[Chuckman]

It's a continuation of the kitchen scene. He picks up where he left off. Before, she met his rage with indifference. Note that she just hangs there and lets him choke her in the kitchen.

There is an important parallel moment in these two scenes. It's a brief flash in the kitchen scene and longer in the beach, but the two fit side by side. As Shinji chokes her, we see this brief shot of Asuka's expression. It's not fear or anger, it's shock. That same shock appears on both their faces. The character of the interaction is different, but in both cases it's one character putting their hands on another, one to hurt and one to comfort and the the other reacts with total shock at what they've just been hit with.

On the beach, she responds with compassion. It's an apology and an accusation and a defense all wrapped up in one. They had a lover's quarrel and she sees now the error of her ways and that many of things she was accusing him off when she rattled her long list of his faults also apply to her.

She's disappointed because his reaction is this highly internal one, a self focused one, he's still worried about himself. It recalls the hospital scene because he's no longer using her as masturbation fodder, he's using her as a crying rag. He's still using her.

Also, importantly, she tops his assault on her with a simple, nonviolent touch. That is power.

That's one way to read it. Illuminated magi know that her expression was one of physical discomfort and that she was about to throw up.

[Mr. Tines]

That's one way to read it. Illuminated magi know that her expression was one of physical discomfort and that she was about to throw up.

I'll just leave this here...

In the end he no longer wants to know. He wants things to be red again. That is the end of the third death. That is the fourth incarnation of Asuka Langley Soryu, highest visible form of the solar wanderer rape deity. Before this film, Shinji could not comprehend the true form of Asuka's attack. Now he can. That's why he's crying.

[Bagheera]

Man, I miss Az. He hasn't been around much lately.

[Sorrow]

It's a continuation of the kitchen scene. He picks up where he left off. Before, she met his rage with indifference. Note that she just hangs there and lets him choke her in the kitchen.

I always thought that everyone Shinji interacted with in the End of Evangelion--save Rei, Yui and Kaworu--instrumentality was his own projection of them? How would Asuka know he masturbated over her in the hospital? Her saying things along the lines of "go ahead, I'll even watch" was the Asuka that exists in the mind of Shinji. How he expects her to be, how he expects her to berate him, humiliate him and refuse him. An argument with himself of 'for and against' his desires of being individual and in pain.

I know it could be said that in instrumentality the contents of everyone's mind are laid bare, but I also thought it hadn't entirely kicked in yet. Rei/Lilith was in the midst of converting the souls into LCL while Shinji was having his discussions about whether to allow it to happen or not. They hadn't yet become the new existence, they were being prepared for it while Shinji was making up his mind.