Shinji, Rei, Yui and Eva-01

[SEELE-01]

So, we hear first hand from Ritsuko that:
A) Shinji cannot sync with Eva 01 anymore
B) Rei "II" could not be retrieved and apparently is not there
C) The tape player was savaged (which proves Rei moved from Zeruel to Eva 01)

It's safe to assume: both Yui and Rei II are still inside Eva 01

Considering that I have a couple of ideas

Shinji doesn't sync with Eva 01
Could it be that, from the inside, Rei's soul/spirit/information blocks Shinji out of mental contact with Eva 01 "so that he never has to pilot again"?
Ritsuko is a liar and she just said that to discourage Shinji from piloting.

Yui and Rei
Could Rei II and Yui fuse together somehow? They are technically the same person... Maybe that's why Ritsuko couldn't find Rei, she only "sees" the control system of Eva 01 (that is, Yui+Rei)

What do you think?

[Shinoyami65]

Shinji doesn't sync with Eva 01
Could it be that, from the inside, Rei's soul/spirit/information blocks Shinji out of mental contact with Eva 01 "so that he never has to pilot again"?
Ritsuko is a liar and she just said that to discourage Shinji from piloting.

Yui and Rei
Could Rei II and Yui fuse together somehow? They are technically the same person... Maybe that's why Ritsuko couldn't find Rei, she only "sees" the control system of Eva 01 (that is, Yui+Rei)

What do you think?

Very interesting... Well, I always assumed that Ritsuko was telling a white lie, in that the DSS choker Shinji wears interefers with his synch ratio, causing his synch ratio with Eva-01 to fall to 0.000%. Or she could just have faked the results and was lying. Shinji still seems perfectly capable of piloting Eva-13, so I don't think that his piloting ability is just "gone". Thr other possibility, that Rei is actively stopping Shinji from piloting is also possible. It could also be that Yui's soul is dormant because of Rei's presence, or Yui currently doesn't need Shinji to pilot and is thus entering a temporary state of dormancy before advancing the next step of her master scenario.

I don't think Yui and Rei fused. One of the big things about the Yui+Shinji+Rei dynamic for me was that Rei and Yui look the same but are ultimately not the same person. They might be working together or interacting but I doubt they've completely fused. Rei has Yui's appearance but a different soul and personality. I think the reason Ritsuko can't find Rei (unless she's lying) is that Rei doesn't want to be found; like Yui she is choosing to remain within the Eva. Yui couldn't be salvaged from Eva-01; I think Rei is taking the same strategy and actively resisting attempts to find her and salvage her. Why she is doing this, I don't know. Possibly she believes that she, the carrier of Lilith's soul (or a fragment of Lilith's soul) would be safer in the Wunder away from Gendo, or Rei and Yui have come up with some sort of plan to complete Yui's scenario in 4.0 and Rei needs to stay in the Eva for that to occur.

[Yokai]

Shinji doesn't sync with Eva 01
Could it be that, from the inside, Rei's soul/spirit/information blocks Shinji out of mental contact with Eva 01 "so that he never has to pilot again"?
Ritsuko is a liar and she just said that to discourage Shinji from piloting.

Yui and Rei
Could Rei II and Yui fuse together somehow? They are technically the same person... Maybe that's why Ritsuko couldn't find Rei, she only "sees" the control system of Eva 01 (that is, Yui+Rei)

My theory on this was posted in another thread, but here I go again. I'll elaborate further as well:

I believe that Shinji isn't able to synch with Eva 01 because Yui is no longer the control system. This would explain why Ritsuko said that there was "nobody else" inside the core. It would also explain why other people, other than Shinji, are able to synch with Eva 01. If we're to go by standard Evangelion logic, it shouldn't be possible that Eva 01 can be used by other pilots. As we've seen in person with the Dummy Plug system, unit 01 constantly rejects pilots other than Shinji. However, if Yui was no longer the control system for unit 01, perhaps this would make the unit a blank slate again and allow someone else to enter the core as the control mechanism. The question is, who?

This leads to the other point. Where's Yui and Rei? Well, perhaps they're inside Shinji? I mean, right before ReiQ saves Shinji, he hears Rei's voice, but it sounds an awful lot like a thought and not like the speaker sound it plays when ReiQ talks to him directly. I think Wille did the "self recognition" test when Shinji woke up -- they wanted to make sure that the person who was actually conscious was Shinji. Or at least, just a theory.

[Shinoyami65]

Fuyutsuki said Rei II and Yui were preserved in Eva-01, and he has no reason to lie to Shinji, especially as it was during Fuyu's big reveal about Rei being a clone of Yui (which he also claims will help Shinji understand Gendo a bit better).

[Kendrix]

The reason why Shinji cannot synch with EVA 01 anymore is probably a big plot point we have to figure out, I feel a potential big revelation for final here...


Maybe it's just not possible to synch a third person to it if there's already one "pilot" absorbed into it?

Or it simply doesn't work because it needs to be the mother of the pilot, and Rei, as much as she looks like her, isn't?

Or it's something we really don't know yet and thus plot twist material for final.

There's also the whole "Lillith ressurection thing". Gendo technically stuffed most of Lillith's soul in what could still very much be a Lillith clone.
And he's kept one fraction of it in ReiQ to set off the final trigger whenever he feels like it.

Assuming, of course, that Rei still has Lillith's soul.

The ressurection business can't really involve the original, as that one's already goo-ified.
There's also the possibility that the spear was put into Lillith to prevent goo-ification in process, as that usually happens as soon as an angelic entity is dead.

[Shinoyami65]

Rei probably still has Lilith's soul; Lilith's head transformed into a GNR head during the timeskip. So there's definitely a connection between Rei and Lilith. Whether ReiQ has it is another question entirely.

[SEELE-01]

I also thought that before Eva 01 was sealed and sent to space Gendo somehow managed to take Rei out... Maybe Rei II is still somewhere in Nerv OR maybe Ritsuko pulled her out and was gonna tell Shinji later and she has been in the Wunder all this time...

[Kendrix]

Lilith's head transformed into a GNR head during the timeskip.

Makes one wonder wether one of the Rei clones from the missing 14 years merged with her.

[K40s]

It has been clearly established by Fujutzuki that unit-01 has Yui (soul) as its control system, is there reason to think that the other units don't need a resident soul serving as control system?

what about unit-00 control system? Rei I's (a fraction of Lilith's) soul?

In the wiki's classified information I recall reading something about the FAR splitting themselves into Fruits of Life and Fruits of Knowledge type Seeds of Life, and that these SoL served as vessels for many souls or something like that...

There's also the notion that 1 angel life-form is the equivalent of many lillin life-forms... so maybe each SoL's soul is more like an amalgamation of many individual souls of it's respective life-forms than only 1 soul.

Maybe Lilith's "soul" is not really 1 soul but many souls, and what seele/nerv did was take one of these Lilith's souls (the soul we know as Rei I) and place it in a body cloned from Yui, then had Rei I enter unit-00 core like Yui did and become the control system for unit-00.

After this they used another empty body and placed another of Lilith's souls, Rei II.

During 3rd Impact two of the souls of Lilith reunited (Rei I from unit-00's core and Rei II from its pilot) this may explain why we get the Giant naked blood Rei.

If unit-01 is cloned from Lilith's body (fruit of knowledge), by absorbing Zeruel's it get's the fruit of life and by absorbing 2 of Lilith's souls it "pseudo" evolves into a "false god".

Then we have another Yui body clone with what seems to be the 3rd and last of Lilith's souls: ReiQ. That's why Kaworu says that it's Lilith's corpse (has no souls left) since the soul is what keeps the A.T. Field that keeps the physical body together the only thing preventing Lilith's corpse from image collapse is being impaled by the lances, the moment the lances are removed Lilith's corpses goes splat...

Gendo and Fujutzuki refer to the Mark.06 on the moon as part of Seel's plan to create a "real God" instead of a false one, they also say that it's construction is different from the other evas.

Mark.06 can be piloted by Kaworu, Kaworu himself says he was the 1st Angel (Adam?) what about Mark.06 control system?

Maybe Mark.06 body is cloned from Adam's instead of Lilith's, and it's control system is 1 of the 4 souls of Adam's soul cluster.

Kaworu is the 1st soul of Adam on a (lillin?) body, then we have the 2nd Adam soul as the control system of Mark.06, they synchronizes just fine like Rei II synchronizes with unit-00's Rei I.

After 3rd Impact maybe Seele wanted to use Mark.06/Kaworu (2 of Adam's souls) to enter into contact with Lilith somehow...

Lilith's body and all its 3 souls were at hand, 2 were already inside the speared unit-01 and the 3rd was in Lilith's body in central dogma but Kaworu refused at the last minute?

They also had to remove the lance that Kaworu brought from unit-01 at some point.

Mark.06 (automated without Kaworu??) entered in contact with Lilith, maybe at this point they removed the last soul (ReiQ) to abort Seele plan??

Mark.09 is the same, an Adam's clone body with the 3rd Adam soul as it's control system.... although this conflicts in why does it synchronizes with ReiQ??

And the 13th evangelion unit, an Adam's clone body and used Kaworu as "pilot" in order to turn him into it's control system, after all it's revealed that Kaworu becomes the 13th angel (inside the 13th evangelion unit, which uses a different designation from the others) and Shinji is the one really piloting

Why can Shinji pilot an angel is like why does ReiQ can pilot Mark.09


About unit-02, probably Asuka's mom is the control system, and Mari must have her own core with her own mom's soul in it, remember that when unit-02 was sealed they removed the core from it, maybe they simple placed unit-05's core in it so Mari could pilot in 2.22, in 3.0 there are two unit operating at the same time, Asuka's unit-02 and Mari's unit-08.


This all comes down to the classified information talking about the FAR sending 7 SoLs or something like that, maybe the 7 reffers to the 7 souls inside the 2 types of SoLs, 4 Adam souls (Kaworu, Mk.06, Mk.09, 4th??) in Adam-type SoL vessel and 3 Lillith souls (Rei I, Rei II, ReiQ) in Lillith-type SoL vessel.

Maybe that's what represents the 4 Adams during 2nd impact and the 4 lances, and 2 lances impaling Lilith's... one lance for each soul.

Maybe one of the Lilith's lances is missing?
Maybe Kaworu's confusion about the lances in central dogma was because 1 lance was stopping the remaining Lilith's soul (ReiQ) and the other lance was stopping the Adam's soul (Mark.06)...
They removed the Adam type lance, and placed the one impaling unit-01?

Maybe they had to remove ReiII soul from unit-01 to return it to normal, encased unit-01 in the tesseract and send it to space, ReiII soul went back to Lilith's body and had to use the lance from unit-01 in Lilith's to contain the 2 souls.

Later Rei II soul was placed in Mark.09 so that ReiQ can pilot it...??

[Yokai]

It has been clearly established by Fujutzuki that unit-01 has Yui (soul) as its control system, is there reason to think that the other units don't need a resident soul serving as control system?

I guess the issue I have with that is -- how can people other than Shinji synch with Unit 01 (who is now the Wunder (Wonder? idk) ). The only way that makes sense to me is if Yui is no longer the control mechanism.

[K40s]

I guess the issue I have with that is -- how can people other than Shinji synch with Unit 01 (who is now the Wunder (Wonder? idk) ). The only way that makes sense to me is if Yui is no longer the control mechanism.

By other people synching with Unit-01 do you mean Mitsato, Ritsuko & Bridge Bunnies?

If so, is it established that they are synching at all? and if so that they are synching with Unit-01? as far as I know the whole bridge-entry-plug in the Wunder could either be:
1) just for looks, after all they don't get submerged in LCL like the other pilots, and it does look cool.
2) they could be synching with the Wunder itself.

Let's not forget that all they say about Unit-01 is that is being used as the energy source for the Wunder...

After all Unit-01 has the Fruit of Life at this point, which is the ability to function uninterrupted without batteries nor umbilical cord, what the S2 organ was in NGE.

Other than this instance, I don't see other people synching with Unit-01, in NME we don't even have the Rei II cross synch test like in NGE.

[pwhodges]

And how did they test Shinji's synch anyway without having him get connected and trying it (which clearly they wouldn't want!)?

[Jadley]

I guess the issue I have with that is -- how can people other than Shinji synch with Unit 01 (who is now the Wunder (Wonder? idk) ). The only way that makes sense to me is if Yui is no longer the control mechanism.

wait wtf?
when did anyone else other than Shinji, tried to synch with shogoki?..
in this continuity Rei didn't try to pilot it, not even in a test like in NGE.
the only thing that actually got to "pilot" it (and only because Shinji was inside the entry plug) was the dummy system, so until i see somebody else piloting shogoki i am not buying the theory of "yui no more".

[SEELE-01]

And how did they test Shinji's synch anyway without having him get connected and trying it (which clearly they wouldn't want!)?

14 years, no way to measure synch ratio of a person out of an Eva, but we have a flying machine that makes Bowser's airships pale and double-piloted Evas...

Maybe Ritsuko is lying after all...

Maybe she isn't a there IS a way to check synch without entering the entry plug or to do while heavily anesthetized...

[Yokai]

when did anyone else other than Shinji, tried to synch with shogoki?..

The wunder's flying system uses the core of Unit 01. So, if that's the case, someone would have to synch with it in order for it to fly, right? And if so, who, when, where, how? All of that is in question as of the end of 3.0 and are worth investigating. Unfortunately, as it is right now, it's magic. That kind of sums up the issues with 3.0, though.

After all Unit-01 has the Fruit of Life at this point, which is the ability to function uninterrupted without batteries nor umbilical cord, what the S2 organ was in NGE.

I didn't notice, did Unit 13 need a umbilical cord? I didn't get a good sight of it in 3.0.

I guess my issue is that in Evangelion, while the synch rate concept wasn't ever completely fleshed out, it was within a certain set of rules and logic that people could pilot the Evangelion units. Perhaps the Wunder is JUST using Unit 01 as "an energy source", but how is that different than the original Unit 01? If the core was good on it's own, then what was the point in having pilots in the first place? Also, there's the question as to why Shinji can't synch with 01 but can synch with Unit 13. In the original series, it was implied that the personal connection between Shinji and Yui is what allowed Shinji to pilot the Evangelion -- but now that concept is either in question or Yui is no longer the control system. Either is fine, as long as if they elaborate upon it at some point. If the DSS Choker was the cause of no synch rate, then why would kaworu put it on knowing it would give Shinji complete control and act surprised when he couldn't do anything in Unit 13?

I really wish they would have elaborated on how, exactly, they are using Unit 01. All we know is that they're using it for their anti-gravity system (or whatever they called it) and didn't say HOW they're using it, how they're getting energy from it.

Also, we can't take the fact that there exists a conflicted message. The fact Ritsuko and Fuyutsuki say completely different thing seems very important to setting up this mystery. Ritsuko, while close to Unit 01 at the time being, isn't a very trustworthy person. Likewise, Fuyutsuki is made out in this movie to be one of the more personal and connectable characters, yet there's a high chance he doesn't know what Wille did with the core they retrieved.

If we are to believe that SOMEBODY has to synch with the unit in order for the Wunder to fly, as there's been no other explanation for how they're using the core other than standard evangelion logic, that brings the question on who is synching with it and how, assuming that there still needs to be a personal connection (which would have to be around in order for the ending of 2.22 to make sense, where the dummy plug is refused in order to allow Shinji to pilot.)

Unfortunately, the 14 year skip makes it so that they can pull any change out of their ass, like they found a way to extract power from the core -- but then that raises the question of why they'd need umbilical cords in the first place.

[Darkwing]

Just going to throw a few ideas out. Depends on whether or not they need anyone syncing with Unit-01 in order to draw power from it. If all Unit01 is doing is acting as a power source, then really what they need is the Fruit of Life (or in old days terms N2 organ) to provide power. I guess if Rei-02 is still in there she could be what's syncing. Or Yui's being nice to Wille.

[Yokai]

Just going to throw a few ideas out. Depends on whether or not they need anyone syncing with Unit-01 in order to draw power from it. If all Unit01 is doing is acting as a power source, then really what they need is the Fruit of Life (or in old days terms N2 organ) to provide power. I guess if Rei-02 is still in there she could be what's syncing. Or Yui's being nice to Wille.

Rei-02 is actually a nice, plausible theory -- I just wish they would have discussed what they meant by using it as a power source!

edit: I guess my issue is that the Yui experiment was done in order to determine if syncing with the evangelion unit was possible through direct insertion. It seems like that plan failed, but Yui ultimately became the control mechanism or the "base" of interaction for the pilot to work with. So if Rei is able to synch with Yui while being physically inside the core, that seems to state that you actually CAN sync with evangelion units while inside the core... lol, idk, I'll have to wait until 3.33 to start thinking about this more -- there may be details that I missed.

[Warren Peace]

How does Fuyutsuki know about the status of Unit-01 anyway? My guess: there's a Nerv mole in Wille. My money's on Pinkie, giving up info in exchange for her precious hair dye. Or better yet: Kaji. He has experience with that whole double agent thing.

[K40s]

Where are you getting that the Wunder is drawing energy from unit-01's core?? if anything it'd be from the S2 organ (fruit of life)

In 1.11 and much of 2.22 unit-01 was limited by it's battery/umbilical cord for energy. By the end of 2.22 by absorbing Zeruel unit-01 gets the Fruit of Life or infinite energy.

That's what the Wunder seems to be using as power source, no real need to synchronize with a power supply.

the 13th evangelion as well as Mark.06 and Mark.09 seem to function without the need of batteries or power cords, probably because they are clones of Adam and already have the Fruit of Life??

How does Fuyutsuki know about the status of Unit-01 anyway?

unit-01 got impaled at the end of 2.22, in 3.33 it shows up inside the tesseract and possibly the same lance that was impaling it shows up impaling Lilith's corpse.

The tesseract seems to have a red logo that must be nerv's. 3.0 begins with a Wille operation to recover the tesseract. Most likely Willie didn't put it there in the first place, Nerv did. Nerv had to remove the lance from unit-01, place it in the tesseract and launch it to space, they are the ones that could know the most about unit-01 status at this point.

[Warren Peace]

Nerv and/or Seele launched the tesseract, no doubt. I'm talking more about the time after it was rescued from space. Much about this is mysterious, of course, but it's strongly implied Wille has had custody of Unit-01 since the prologue, and are responsible for retrieving Shinji. So much has happened since Unit-01 was initially launched into space -- Shinji is out, Wille has been screwing around with it and plugged the thing into a damn airship. Years may have passed since Nerv evaluated the unit. Many years? I don't see how Fuyutsuki can be that confident.