Asuka is too good for Shinji?

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Asuka is too good for Shinji?

Postby redbomb » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:18 pm

When I first started watching Evangelion, I absolutely HATED Asuka. I thought she was a big bitchy brat. But then after awhile, she grew on me because I realized how similar we are.
But the thing I never understood was why she liked Shinji. I've always thought she was way too good for him and with her issues, she needed a guy that was way more mature and stable.

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Postby Redtophat » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:35 pm

Shinji and Asuka are similar in a way, except Asuka directs her troubles externally while Shinji directs it internally. If they did get into a relationship I would imagine it would be initially a licking each others wounds kinda deal but later blossom into something beautiful that'd help them mature emotionally. Also Shinji is a plot of an evangelion unit, a famous one at that so it's not surprising that Asuka found some interest in him at the start.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:35 pm

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Having watched the On Air episodes first, and coming to the DC episodes only after EoE -- as the various DVD release schedules panned out -- then the A/S hints in EoE (in the hell-train sequence) just came out of nowhere. It took me some years to figure out that viewing order like that was a significant contributing factor as to what people take away.

It's clear that A/S just wasn't on the cards in the original (she's just somewhere in the middle of Shinji's welcome at the very end; and the incident that sets her on the downward spiral is her realization that Kaji and Misato have gotten back together, leaving her feelings for Kaji unrequitable); whereas a good chunk of the new material in the DC versions went into trying to build up feelings towards Shinji on her part that were just not there in the original.

We know that Asuka just doesn't entertain thoughts of boys her own age in general (spurning underfoot all the letters that have been stuffed into her locker), but does at least try a date with the older boy that Hikari introduces her to -- so it's reasonable to assume that she wants someone she considers at least her own equal.

Some of the actions between the two pilots can be seen as Asuka probing to see whether a male pilot was anything like her idealised notion of a boy who was otherwise like own pilot self-image, and thus a suitable equal, and being desperately disappointed by the harsh reality of Shinji coming a dismal last in a field of one.
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Postby CJD » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:57 pm

Asuka too good for Shinji? Yea, you'll find people who think similar thoughts here. Personally I think they were bloody made for each other.

Regarding her issues, though, I don't think most guys who are more mature are going to put up with her because of them. If Asuka doesn't get over her issues she needs someone who's not only going to take her shit without complaint but also going to dote on her, to make her feel special, and to a larger extent than everyone else makes their significant other feel special. It requires her partner to have a perfect combination of a lack of self worth combined with a desire, and ability, to live for someone else, not themselves. Now, more of the latter can make up for the former, but not enough of the former and they're not going to be able to take her shit, it's easy enough to find people to live for. On the other hand if you have enough of the former, but not too much, you manage because you think you're incapable of getting anything better.
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Postby Xard » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:14 pm

Asuka and Shinji "deserve" each other, being such small teenage fuck ups.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:21 pm

Yeah, let them kill each other for good. Jokes aside, I just don't see them as compatible, it's not really a matter of who deserves whom.
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Postby riffraff11235 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:23 pm

I always thought that Asuka and Shinji compliment each other very well. As June said, they deal with their insecurities in opposite ways. They could learn a lot from each other if they would just open up.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:27 pm

Shinji doesn't understand Asuka's patterns, Asuka gets easily pissed off by Shinji's naiveness, is this what people call "complementing each other"?
So let’s make a wish.
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Postby CJD » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:28 pm

View Original Postriffraff11235 wrote:I always thought that Asuka and Shinji compliment each other very well. As June said, they deal with their insecurities in opposite ways. They could learn a lot from each other if they would just open up.


[s]I don't think they'd learn jack. I think Asuka would treat Shinji like shit and Shinji would take it because all he wants is to be loved. It'd be an abusive relationship but history shows us those tend to last pretty long.[/s]

Two months later edit: This was stupid, even in jest.
Last edited by CJD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:30 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby riffraff11235 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:29 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Shinji doesn't understand Asuka's patterns, Asuka gets easily pissed off by Shinji's naiveness, is this what people call "complementing each other"?

I worded that poorly. I meant that the ways they deal with their problems compliment each other. They balance each other out.
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Postby Dream » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:32 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Shinji doesn't understand Asuka's patterns, Asuka gets easily pissed off by Shinji's naiveness, is this what people call "complementing each other"?


Personally, i think the error with that thinking, is the idea that things will always remain the same, somehow. Even if the dream-like plot of NGE and Instrumentality wasn't there to force interaction and character development, they are going to change and develop to some degree (Not to mention one of the main themes of NGE is understanding each other or trying to) It might also be worthy of mention that before the descent arc, they seemed to be getting along pretty well.

I think i'm going to love this thread, by the way.

I don't think they'd learn jack. I think Asuka would treat Shinji like shit and Shinji would take it because all he wants is to be loved. It'd be an abusive relationship but those tend to last the longest.


How optimistic! :lol:
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Postby TomasJC » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:43 pm

To put it simply, Shinji and Asuka are like Yin and Yang, two odds make an even or whatever. It's actually quite cliché, and this sort of pairing is used often in fiction. But it works, doesn't it?
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Postby Rei IV » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:45 pm

No offense to major Asuka fans here but I can imagine her being the emotionally abusive one towards the Shinji. She would also be the one who essentially wears the pants in said relationship. I can also imagine Shinji attempting to strike her or strangle her when he becomes depressed, frustrated, or angry when dealing with her abuse. EoE really affirmed my opinion that such a relationship epitomizes the word "toxic". Interestingly enough, while I'm not a fan of this paring I can admit maybe, just maybe there's potential hope for them. They just need therapy for a long time, and I mean a REALLY long time.

I would aruge both Asuka and Shinji are pretty much on the same level, as much as she would hate to admit.

:hahaha:

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:46 pm

View Original PostDream wrote:Personally, i think the error with that thinking, is the idea that things will always remain the same, somehow. Even if the dream-like plot of NGE and Instrumentality wasn't there to force interaction and character development, they are going to change and develop to some degree (Not to mention one of the main themes of NGE is understanding each other or trying to)

There's still a long way from barely understanding and perhaps accepting each other to become a complementary couple.
View Original PostDream wrote:It might also be worthy of mention that before the descent arc, they seemed to be getting along pretty well.

It was a very precarious professional and interpersonal balance, as we ended up discovering later.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:50 pm

There would be some walls to put down, on both sides, and by some I mean a gazillion, but I can see it working out. In the end of it all we learn that Asuka too has been lacking in affection most of her life, just like Shinji, this kind of deprivation breeds needy individuals, and where there's a common need there can be a common goal.

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Postby NemZ » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:54 pm

They're both too good for each other in different ways.

What Asuka really needs is someone who can give as good as she can but in a different field so there's no direct competition. Someone who won't be cowed by or escalate her anger, who will call her on it when she's being a brat, and will still offer support even when she won't admit she needs it, even when she least deserves it.

Shinji needs someone who pushes him to succeed in spite of himself and is quick to offer honest feedback, good and bad, without lecturing. Someone who can drag him out of his own head and out of his comfort zones by making him WANT to be and do better, not by force or nagging. Someone who can be his emotional rock without becoming a crutch, and who genuinely needs him just as much.

The people they need are not each other.
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Postby Dream » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:56 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:There's still a long way from barely understanding and perhaps accepting each other to become a complementary couple.

It was a very precarious professional and interpersonal balance, as we ended up discovering later.


Yeah, my thinking was more along the lines of friendship rather than romantic relationship, not that i can't imagine the latter happening, since i don't think that is something so impossible/unreachable, but the former is more likely and probably healthier for them for a while. Don't really get what you mean with the second line though, at least i didn't see it that way.
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Postby CJD » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:57 pm

View Original PostDream wrote:How optimistic! :lol:


Well you know what they say, "Love is a battlefield."

View Original PostRei IV wrote:No offense to major Asuka fans here but I can imagine her being the emotionally abusive one towards the Shinji. She would also be the one who essentially wears the pants in said relationship.


Heh, I'm not sure any of us deny that. At the least I think we agree that if it is abusive she'll be the abuser.
You know you have some fucked up characters when a screenshot of them smiling is the biggest piece of fanservice possible in the series. - Anonymous
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:03 pm

View Original PostDream wrote:Don't really get what you mean with the second line though, at least i didn't see it that way.

Uh? Did I phrase it badly? I meant that their friendship started falling apart when Asuka felt menaced by Shinji's scores and she started doubting her own value and raison d'etre; it was mostly a friendship based on mutual convenience, after all it was Misato who forced them to live together, no?
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“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times

From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

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Postby Rei IV » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:13 pm

Hey, I'm not sure any of us deny that. At the least I think we agree that if it is abusive she'll be the abuser.

Well the thing is that I actually believe that Shinji could easily become just as abusive as her. He tried to strangle her twice so whose to say he's capable of much worse if provoked, especially since he's someone who hates himself and has very low self-esteem.


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