Rei IV wrote:He tried to strangle her twice
He only tried once, the other was a success (and only happened in his head).
Asuka is too good for Shinji?
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He only tried once, the other was a success (and only happened in his head).
Avatar: B-B-B-B-B-Bad
Rei IV wrote:Well the thing is that I actually believe that Shinji could easily become just as abusive as her. He tried to strangle her twice so whose to say he's capable of much worse if provoked, especially since he's someone who hates himself and has very low self-esteem.
Eh, that's getting into the nature of the beach scene in EoE which is a whole 'nother topic, with just as much difference in interpretation as this one. tl;dr the way I interpreted it he wasn't trying to hurt her.
Edit: But yea, I do think Shinji's capable of biting back.
You know you have some fucked up characters when a screenshot of them smiling is the biggest piece of fanservice possible in the series. - Anonymous
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
- Kendrix
- Defender of Puppy Boy
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I'd say it's probably the other way around.
The whole thing is just a teenage crush without much depht from either side, they never fit together at all, they just were there when the other happened to be hormonal and/or feeling lonely. Anno probably paired them exactly because they would create a mutually destructive excellent drama source of a relationship.
When they're together, they bring out the very worst in each other.
Asuka is supposed to be that first, painful teenage love interests where you first get interested in/ have experiences with the oposite sex, and learn what heartbreak is. She represents the "criticizing other", she's something that Shinji has to learn to live with, a fact of reality that can't be escaped or ignored, but she's always a source of pain, never comfort.
Her purpose in the narrative is to tell him he sucks. Be it by saying it to his face, by doing certain things better than him or by giving someone he can fail to protect.
They can't stand each other's friends, share no hobbies, and have just the wrong combination of similarities and differences. (ie, they're similar when it's inconvenient - like, they're both fairly high-maintennance, need a lot of affection and recognition, but, for different reasons, have trouble giving it. Shinji's too hesitant, Asuka's too proud / afraid to depend on others and different where they should be similar, Shinji's gonna end up kicked around with such a dominant person who would never consider what he wants, and he can't express himself sufficiently to insist on what he wants. They'd be a challenge for a normal person, but each other? Impossible.
Neither of them can give the other what they need, and what they want is based on idealized perceptions of the other - Shinji wants the cool independent Asuka, he doesn't know what to do with someone who cries for her mommy. But she longs for a "protector" who will "stay with her." Asuka exploits his flaws, but still demands he get over them. If he ever did grow some self-respect, the first thing he'd do is tell her to stop insulting him and his friends. )
Asuka is probably right in some of her accusations, but even in his immature limerence, Shinji always cared more for Asuka than Asuka ever cared for him. She'd never admit anything, never throw the poor boy a bone without denyng it right afterwards, she always insults, belittles him, she provokes him into doing stupid things, exploits his flaws and she always comes first. As the alternate life action scene puts is, she's pretty cold-hearted, but get's attached easily. And she willingly and recklessly causes men to misunderstand.
Did you see this kiss? Asuka wants to get a kiss from him, but she won't give him the satisfaction of knowing he wants anything from her.
He has some vague idea that kissing for boredom isn't that good of an idea, but he's weak-willed and Asuka knows that he'll do anything to prove himself to her, so she calls him a coward. She won't even let him breathe, that's how little she's concerned about him.
Of course, this was a painful situation for Asuka, too, she felt rejected as well, but that's the point: Those two actually returned each other's feelings, but they failed so much at communicating that that they both thought it was unrequited.
Okay, both suck at communication, period. But compare to, say, Shinji's interactions with Misato or Asuka's with Hikari. These went to hell, too, but they reached way more of a common ground.
We see Shinji wondering about what she may be thinking a few times, but while Asuka has very understandable reasons to be the way she is, having gotten the worst backstory in a story where everybody is royally screwed up, sometimes she acts like she thinks she's the only person on this planet who has feelings.
I'm not judging her, I'm not talking about how to judge her, I'm talking about the effect this has on people, namely Shinji.
I mean, she badmouthed him when he was freaking missing in action! No, just no.
This would end with Asuka kicking Shinji around for fun and profit untill he snaps one day, and ... yeah, then it's Asuka we'll have to worry about.
But that's more a case of "Beware the nice ones" than it is him being potential wife-beater material.
That whole thing about her coaxing him out of his shell is bullshit, too, unless you count her provoking him into leeroy jenkins-ing Leliel and accepting a kiss on what, as far as he knew, were unequal grounds. (Imagine the Genders flipped, and remember that classic speech fathers give their daughers "Be careful of those boys who only want to "experiment"... In a way, it was a very realistic scene, because girls have a sex drive, too, and teenagers DO "experiment". And at that age, girls are generally a bit ahead of the boys in their developement. ) He would snark back at her when their relationship was still antagonistic, but once he actually cared what she thought of him, he just took whatever she threw at him while trying to help, untill he reached hisd breaking point after much, much, much punishment and just grew frustrated.
The truth is that quiet people tend to shut up and follow the leader when there's a very dominant person around, they tend to be more comfortable around other quiet people where they have to take more initiative to sustain the conversation and don't feel intimidated.
the coaxing-bit is a myth perpetrated by talkative people who think not being like them is an imperfection that needs to be fixed. Shinji has imperfections that need to be fixed, but a relationship where you wait for your partner to change can never really work, someone would always have to make onesided sacrifices, and if she can't stand anything about his personality, she needs a different boyfriend.
They just don't want the same things out of life.
Asuka is very ambitious and even if she were to get over her morbid fixation on ambition, she would probably still want to pursue a sucessfull career. Shinji doesn't have any ambition, he'd prefer peace and quiet.
He'd probably open a little restaurant somewhere and buy himself a small house in the country with a nice view of the stars.
And even the argument that they both sufferend from being EVA pilots is fairly weak considering how they suffered from it in very different ways.
Shinji was horrified by the violence and the life and death situations, couldn't deal with the burden of responsibility and the ethical choices he had to make (Touji, Kaworu...)
Asuka had no problem with these, it was the fear of failure that she suffered from, the pressure to be "perfect"
Asuka resented her fellow pilots, seeing them as Rivals - Shinji can't understand that at all, he was happy to have someone support him.
On the other hand, if Shinji were to cry to her about how horrible it was to be forced to fight, he'd sound ingrateful for her, as she suffered from having her place as a fighter taken away from her.
They'd be using the same words, but they'd talk past each other.
Yes, there are similarities, and differences can be stimulating and "complementing", but they're the wrong similarities and differences. They're similar where they should be different and different where they should be similar.
Compare/Contrast Rei and Shinji. Because they both lived in very cold environments with little human warmth, they are able to see and appreciate the smallest gestures - which is helpful when the other can only communicate in those. Shinji was drawn to her because she seemed to be lonely like he used to be before he met Touji and Kensuke. They can understand each other through shared suffering.
But the differences are also at the right places, Rei can be very straightforward when she's motivated and she's fond of brutal honesty, just stating the facts as they are - which is often the kick in the butt Shinji needs to get his act together, not forcepul pushing, just confronting him with the facts in a way that he can't ignore them. They bring out the best in each other, Rei gives Shinji a chance to display his kindness, while Rei shows her capacity for loyalty, care and devotion and she actually lets him see some results. They really filll a deep need in each other, for Shinji, Rei gives him the feeling of being actually needed, for Rei, Shinji is someone who values her for her own merits alone, not because of any of her "ingredients".
Of course, those two are star-crossed for some whole different reasons...
The whole thing is just a teenage crush without much depht from either side, they never fit together at all, they just were there when the other happened to be hormonal and/or feeling lonely. Anno probably paired them exactly because they would create a mutually destructive excellent drama source of a relationship.
When they're together, they bring out the very worst in each other.
Asuka is supposed to be that first, painful teenage love interests where you first get interested in/ have experiences with the oposite sex, and learn what heartbreak is. She represents the "criticizing other", she's something that Shinji has to learn to live with, a fact of reality that can't be escaped or ignored, but she's always a source of pain, never comfort.
Her purpose in the narrative is to tell him he sucks. Be it by saying it to his face, by doing certain things better than him or by giving someone he can fail to protect.
They can't stand each other's friends, share no hobbies, and have just the wrong combination of similarities and differences. (ie, they're similar when it's inconvenient - like, they're both fairly high-maintennance, need a lot of affection and recognition, but, for different reasons, have trouble giving it. Shinji's too hesitant, Asuka's too proud / afraid to depend on others and different where they should be similar, Shinji's gonna end up kicked around with such a dominant person who would never consider what he wants, and he can't express himself sufficiently to insist on what he wants. They'd be a challenge for a normal person, but each other? Impossible.
Neither of them can give the other what they need, and what they want is based on idealized perceptions of the other - Shinji wants the cool independent Asuka, he doesn't know what to do with someone who cries for her mommy. But she longs for a "protector" who will "stay with her." Asuka exploits his flaws, but still demands he get over them. If he ever did grow some self-respect, the first thing he'd do is tell her to stop insulting him and his friends. )
Asuka is probably right in some of her accusations, but even in his immature limerence, Shinji always cared more for Asuka than Asuka ever cared for him. She'd never admit anything, never throw the poor boy a bone without denyng it right afterwards, she always insults, belittles him, she provokes him into doing stupid things, exploits his flaws and she always comes first. As the alternate life action scene puts is, she's pretty cold-hearted, but get's attached easily. And she willingly and recklessly causes men to misunderstand.
Did you see this kiss? Asuka wants to get a kiss from him, but she won't give him the satisfaction of knowing he wants anything from her.
He has some vague idea that kissing for boredom isn't that good of an idea, but he's weak-willed and Asuka knows that he'll do anything to prove himself to her, so she calls him a coward. She won't even let him breathe, that's how little she's concerned about him.
Of course, this was a painful situation for Asuka, too, she felt rejected as well, but that's the point: Those two actually returned each other's feelings, but they failed so much at communicating that that they both thought it was unrequited.
Okay, both suck at communication, period. But compare to, say, Shinji's interactions with Misato or Asuka's with Hikari. These went to hell, too, but they reached way more of a common ground.
We see Shinji wondering about what she may be thinking a few times, but while Asuka has very understandable reasons to be the way she is, having gotten the worst backstory in a story where everybody is royally screwed up, sometimes she acts like she thinks she's the only person on this planet who has feelings.
I'm not judging her, I'm not talking about how to judge her, I'm talking about the effect this has on people, namely Shinji.
I mean, she badmouthed him when he was freaking missing in action! No, just no.
This would end with Asuka kicking Shinji around for fun and profit untill he snaps one day, and ... yeah, then it's Asuka we'll have to worry about.
But that's more a case of "Beware the nice ones" than it is him being potential wife-beater material.
That whole thing about her coaxing him out of his shell is bullshit, too, unless you count her provoking him into leeroy jenkins-ing Leliel and accepting a kiss on what, as far as he knew, were unequal grounds. (Imagine the Genders flipped, and remember that classic speech fathers give their daughers "Be careful of those boys who only want to "experiment"... In a way, it was a very realistic scene, because girls have a sex drive, too, and teenagers DO "experiment". And at that age, girls are generally a bit ahead of the boys in their developement. ) He would snark back at her when their relationship was still antagonistic, but once he actually cared what she thought of him, he just took whatever she threw at him while trying to help, untill he reached hisd breaking point after much, much, much punishment and just grew frustrated.
The truth is that quiet people tend to shut up and follow the leader when there's a very dominant person around, they tend to be more comfortable around other quiet people where they have to take more initiative to sustain the conversation and don't feel intimidated.
the coaxing-bit is a myth perpetrated by talkative people who think not being like them is an imperfection that needs to be fixed. Shinji has imperfections that need to be fixed, but a relationship where you wait for your partner to change can never really work, someone would always have to make onesided sacrifices, and if she can't stand anything about his personality, she needs a different boyfriend.
They just don't want the same things out of life.
Asuka is very ambitious and even if she were to get over her morbid fixation on ambition, she would probably still want to pursue a sucessfull career. Shinji doesn't have any ambition, he'd prefer peace and quiet.
He'd probably open a little restaurant somewhere and buy himself a small house in the country with a nice view of the stars.
And even the argument that they both sufferend from being EVA pilots is fairly weak considering how they suffered from it in very different ways.
Shinji was horrified by the violence and the life and death situations, couldn't deal with the burden of responsibility and the ethical choices he had to make (Touji, Kaworu...)
Asuka had no problem with these, it was the fear of failure that she suffered from, the pressure to be "perfect"
Asuka resented her fellow pilots, seeing them as Rivals - Shinji can't understand that at all, he was happy to have someone support him.
On the other hand, if Shinji were to cry to her about how horrible it was to be forced to fight, he'd sound ingrateful for her, as she suffered from having her place as a fighter taken away from her.
They'd be using the same words, but they'd talk past each other.
Yes, there are similarities, and differences can be stimulating and "complementing", but they're the wrong similarities and differences. They're similar where they should be different and different where they should be similar.
Compare/Contrast Rei and Shinji. Because they both lived in very cold environments with little human warmth, they are able to see and appreciate the smallest gestures - which is helpful when the other can only communicate in those. Shinji was drawn to her because she seemed to be lonely like he used to be before he met Touji and Kensuke. They can understand each other through shared suffering.
But the differences are also at the right places, Rei can be very straightforward when she's motivated and she's fond of brutal honesty, just stating the facts as they are - which is often the kick in the butt Shinji needs to get his act together, not forcepul pushing, just confronting him with the facts in a way that he can't ignore them. They bring out the best in each other, Rei gives Shinji a chance to display his kindness, while Rei shows her capacity for loyalty, care and devotion and she actually lets him see some results. They really filll a deep need in each other, for Shinji, Rei gives him the feeling of being actually needed, for Rei, Shinji is someone who values her for her own merits alone, not because of any of her "ingredients".
Of course, those two are star-crossed for some whole different reasons...
Last edited by Kendrix on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I wanted to try harvesting the rice
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
- Hyper Shinchan
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This is where Mari becomes handy, Shinji gets Kaworu, Rei gets Shinji and Asuka gets Mari.
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times
From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times
From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.
- Kendrix
- Defender of Puppy Boy
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The perfect solution, is, of course, this:
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/perfectsolution.jpg/]
[/URL]
/Silly
*grabs popcorn and observes what becomes of this thread that sounded a lot more analysis-heavy a while ago*
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/perfectsolution.jpg/]
[/URL]/Silly
*grabs popcorn and observes what becomes of this thread that sounded a lot more analysis-heavy a while ago*
I wanted to try harvesting the rice
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
- Hyper Shinchan
- Younger God
- Age: 36
- Posts: 4774
- Joined: Aug 07, 2005
- Location: Bunga Bunga Republic
- Gender: Male
^
You're pretty astute, Kendrix.
You don't have to thank me.
You're pretty astute, Kendrix.
You don't have to thank me.
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times
From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times
From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.
- Hyper Shinchan
- Younger God
- Age: 36
- Posts: 4774
- Joined: Aug 07, 2005
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God I'm dense as fuck. I was sitting here trying to figure that image out until you said this. I'd fit right in as a harem lead.
You know you have some fucked up characters when a screenshot of them smiling is the biggest piece of fanservice possible in the series. - Anonymous
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
- riffraff11235
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That you would. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here trying to scrub this mental image off of my retinas with little success.
だから みんな 死んでしまえば いいのに... では, あなたは何故, ココにいるの? ...ココにいても, いいの?
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
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"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
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Remember: When your eyes screech, use eye bleach.
You know you have some fucked up characters when a screenshot of them smiling is the biggest piece of fanservice possible in the series. - Anonymous
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
- riffraff11235
- Seed of Life
- Age: 31
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- Joined: Jul 19, 2012
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Thanks. Almost forgot about that stuff. I need to remember to buy some in bulk the next time I'm at CostCo.
だから みんな 死んでしまえば いいのに... では, あなたは何故, ココにいるの? ...ココにいても, いいの?
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
PSN - riffraff-11235 Feel free to add me. PM me on EGF if you do.
Steam - rifffraff11235
League of Legends - riffraff11235
Osu! - riffraff11235
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
PSN - riffraff-11235 Feel free to add me. PM me on EGF if you do.
Steam - rifffraff11235
League of Legends - riffraff11235
Osu! - riffraff11235
- Hyper Shinchan
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Each is too good for the other, yet neither is good enough. They were made to be gloriously ruinous together.
If they were "real" people it would be best for them to stay the hell away from each other, but as fictional characters they're one of the great tragic pairings ever.
Romeo and Juliet is not a love story.
If they were "real" people it would be best for them to stay the hell away from each other, but as fictional characters they're one of the great tragic pairings ever.
Romeo and Juliet is not a love story.
the prophecy is true
Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski
Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski
- riffraff11235
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Hopes and dreams are very subjective.
Actually, the funny pictures I have in my "Evangelion" folder worked even better for this case.
だから みんな 死んでしまえば いいのに... では, あなたは何故, ココにいるの? ...ココにいても, いいの?
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
PSN - riffraff-11235 Feel free to add me. PM me on EGF if you do.
Steam - rifffraff11235
League of Legends - riffraff11235
Osu! - riffraff11235
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
PSN - riffraff-11235 Feel free to add me. PM me on EGF if you do.
Steam - rifffraff11235
League of Legends - riffraff11235
Osu! - riffraff11235
Don't look at me, I was just helping him out. I found the image lovely in a weird sort of way. I don't think there's much precedence for three way relationships in modern society but if anyone can make it work it's those three.
You know you have some fucked up characters when a screenshot of them smiling is the biggest piece of fanservice possible in the series. - Anonymous
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
Seriously? Holy crap man, I thought it was painfully obvious. Not my thing but for Shinji that's pretty much a flawless victory.
Meh, I've seen worse. Hell, I've been reading what seemed to be a perfectly sensible doujin suddenly end in that situation with Gendo in Kaworu's place. THAT was an eye bleach moment.
chuckman wrote:Romeo and Juliet is not a love story.
Heh, I actually got in trouble with some very touchy parents when I was still teaching for trying to point out exactly that. Not my fault the state of Missouri made a play featuring teen sex, a suicide pact, gang violence, rape jokes, murder, drug use, and subversion of parental, legal and religious authorities a required part of freshman English.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
- riffraff11235
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Nemz wrote:THAT was an eye bleach moment.
YA THINK?! *proceeds to dunk head repeatedly in bathtub full of the stuff*
だから みんな 死んでしまえば いいのに... では, あなたは何故, ココにいるの? ...ココにいても, いいの?
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
PSN - riffraff-11235 Feel free to add me. PM me on EGF if you do.
Steam - rifffraff11235
League of Legends - riffraff11235
Osu! - riffraff11235
"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
PSN - riffraff-11235 Feel free to add me. PM me on EGF if you do.
Steam - rifffraff11235
League of Legends - riffraff11235
Osu! - riffraff11235
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