Eva Unit Souls and Cores

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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[SPOILERS] Eva Unit Souls and Cores

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:01 pm

I guess it's safe to say--based on what we know so far--that Eva-01 is the only unit with a soul (Yui, due to her direct core entry into Eva-01) and all the other Evas (that is, minus the possibility of the 4 Adams = 4 Eva units) are "just" cyborgs (no resident soul)?

It sort of would explain why both Mari (towards Eva-05 and Eva-02 in 2.0) and Asuka (towards Eva-02 in 3.0) treat their Eva with compassion on some level--and maybe explains Rei 2's words ("Eva is a mirror that reflects your heart.")?

It could also explain why core swapping is so important for the different units (the assumption Asuka's Eva-02's core was placed in Eva-03, for instance), when that's the only way for the pilots to properly synch with any Eva including their own:

1.0 - Shinji refuses to pilot, they decide to use Rei wrote:Ritsuko: Switch Unit-01's core unit to the L-00 type and restart it!


The "L" part of 00 type is making me wonder again if Rei or her Evas (Eva-00, Mark.09) have a Lilith connection...Though hard to say so far.

2.0 - when Asuka's Eva-02 is placed in storage wrote:Announcer, English: Eva Unit-02's core unit separation complete.
Tech, English: Unit-02 is inbound for housing within Containment Silo 2.


2.22 Supplemental Dialogue, Mari hijacks Eva-02 with help wrote:??: Eva Unit Two's containment measures have been unlocked. We are currently opening up Silo Two.
??: Final safety systems have been disabled. Removal of all restraining gear is now complete.
??: Entry plug currently moving into position. Thirty seconds to insertion lock position.
??: Core unit automatic reconfiguration sequence has begun.
??: Rewriting access key. The new designated pilot will be registered as Mari Makinami-Illustrious, pass code zero five.
??: Two minutes forty seconds until activation program start.


Although the mother being the Eva soul was such a crucial aspect of NGE, NME ain't NGE. Eva-01 being the only soul'ed Eva (though it currently houses both Yui and Rei 2) helps streamline the film series, too.

The majority of the Eva units being just cyborgs this time around gives off more of a hard sci-fi feel, at any rate.
Last edited by Sailor Star Dust on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:21 pm

Eh, I think it's okay to mention souls and cores in the title, since we're just continuing a conversation from 2.0 here.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:28 pm

Just wanted to be on the safe side, but okie dokie loki.

Any thoughts of your own on the subject?

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Postby Darkwing » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:06 pm

Well something has to be different this time around. Actually earlier in the TV show, they didn't seem to care as much about who piloted what Eva. We had the cross contact experiment where Rei was in Unit-01 and Shinji in Unit-00. Rei seemed to be okay in Unit-01. But as stated, in Rebuild they talk about switching cores, and thus far only Unit-01 seems to clearly have a soul. But if the core for Asuka was used in Unit-03, wouldn't it be destroyed? And if cores are physical objects, how the hell did Mari's get sneaked into Nerv so it could be installed?
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Postby Electric Sachiel » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:32 pm

And for that matter we don't even know if unit cores still contain the souls of the children's long dead mothers or someone close to them? Or do the new Eva unit cores mirror the pilot's own memories/personalities?

In any case I have to wonder how it works with Unit 13. Shinji and Kaworu pilot an eva using a double cockpit configuration. Does that mean the unit has two different unit cores as suggested by the two halos it has?

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Postby kuwisdelu » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:36 pm

I have something of a theory on the cores that kind of builds on the theory that Rei I was in Unit-00 in NGE. Of course, back then, we were dealing with souls, and parts of souls, but it seems like this time, the souls themselves aren't necessary for piloting an Eva (otherwise, as pointed out, I'd think Asuka would have been out of luck when Unit-03 was taken out).

What if instead of the mother's souls, this time the Evas just need a control system compatible with the pilot? In Q, Fuyutski says the Yui became the control system for Unit-01, and clearly Yui is "compatible" with Shinji, but what if this time, it's not so much the soul that matters, so much as genetic material?

My theory is that this time the other Evas require the pilots' clones to pilot. The clone is merged with the core and becomes the control system for the Eva, and it needs to match the pilot in order for it to work. That would explain why the cores need to be switched out, but can also be replaced if one gets destroyed, because you can always make more clones.

This also fits with the theory that the "-nami" naming scheme for the pilots is because they're all lines of clones, because except for Shinji, whose mother became Unit-01's control system, the other pilots needed clones to be absorbed into the cores to make up the control systems for their Evas.

And that also explains where Rei I is in Rebuild. She was the core of Unit-00.

The only place where I'm not sure about this is with Eva-13, but it's a totally weird Eva to begin with. It might be that Kaworu's space magic negated the need for the typical control system. It might also use a Rei-clone-core, since presumably, being a clone of Yui, she would also make a compatible control system for Shinji.

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Postby Darkwing » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:26 pm

It may be that Kawrou was the control system for Shinji, enabeling him to link due to his angel magic.

Or the Adams derived Eva's don't need the core clone link thingy.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:36 pm

That's pretty interesting, kuwisdelu. I think you may be onto something. Think there's potential for combining your idea with the "Eva pilots have the souls of the Adams (and Lilith, too; whatever)" theory?

I posted some thoughts on the Eva-13 situation over here. Didn't garner any attention in that discussion, but maybe it will here.
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Postby Darkwing » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:54 pm

Huh, missed that theory when you posted in in the original thread. So you think Unit-13 was the original body for Kawrou. At first I figured thats nuts, since wouldn't they have built it like the Mark-06. But then I remembered Adam being reduced to an Embryo in the original and it didn't seem so crazy. As to how Seele took control, I figure they probably had some sort of Dummy system set up as a backup trap.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:57 pm

I kind of support the theory of the Evas containing Rei clone souls or fragments of Lilith's soul, although I don't think Asuka and Mari are clones (Mari maybe. But no evidence for Asuka). In 1.11 we see the disturbed-Rei I sequence again, but only during/after Shinji pilots Eva-01. Then in 2.22 we hear Reiquarium-like giggling and a big Rei-like face in Eva-03's entry plug as Bardiel takes over. So I think there's definitely some link between Rei and the Evas.
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Postby ReiAyanami25 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:48 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:I kind of support the theory of the Evas containing Rei clone souls or fragments of Lilith's soul, although I don't think Asuka and Mari are clones (Mari maybe. But no evidence for Asuka). In 1.11 we see the disturbed-Rei I sequence again, but only during/after Shinji pilots Eva-01. Then in 2.22 we hear Reiquarium-like giggling and a big Rei-like face in Eva-03's entry plug as Bardiel takes over. So I think there's definitely some link between Rei and the Evas.


Actually, that is a rather good point. I had never really made the link between such things and the possibility that Rei may have more associations with the Eva than just being a pilot.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:18 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:So I think there's definitely some link between Rei and the Evas.

Using Rei-like imagery in an Asuka context isn't a new thing. The extended mindscape scene in 22' did this profusely: for example, Asuka surrounded by a horde of giggling "clones", and the young Asuka with the monkey plushie sporting a Rei 1-style leer. Of course, NGE had its own reasons for doing it -- Asuka projected her insecurities about being a "doll" onto Rei, and so on -- but NME's reasons could be similar.

The giggling in Asuka's plug didn't strike me as Hayashibara's. Inane Rei giggling is very... distinctive. I'm going to guess that it was Miyamura's voicework.

One interesting thing here that might gel with what kuwisdalu proposed is that Miyamura is confirmed as providing Eva-03's voice. Yes: Eva-03's.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:48 am

Eva-03's voice? Does that mean the giggling? Eva-03 doesn't actually "speak", being an Eva and all that. Could it be that that the Evas are made from Lilith (hence the Rei associations) but contain clones of the pilots? Although, as I said, there's no evidence of Mari or Asuka being clones.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:38 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:Eva-03's voice?

Grunting, roaring, etc.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:34 pm

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:and a big Rei-like face in Eva-03's entry plug as Bardiel takes over.


That wide-eyed little girl sketch during the 9th Angel take over doesn't look like Rei or Asuka. (Why can't I find that clear 2.0 CRC image on the forums now?)
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Postby UrsusArctos » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:50 am

When Fuyutsuki and Gendo were talking about using Rei for Eva-01 in 1.0, Fuyu made a comment to the effect of "Rei in Eva-01? Isn't that dangerous?". I'd say they were expecting something 2.0-eqsue to happen if Rei got into Eva-01. Probably they were worried that Yui would absorb Rei altogether and the Eva start to evolve.

The -nami theory seems to make sense, and it would also explain the meaning of the face that Asuka saw in Eva-03 (it was her clone).

I'd like to pose another theory about Rei-01 : There's no Rei-01 this time around, since Rei-01 is just Yui. She's literally the "only one". Rei is "no one" and thus "everyone" after that. (Rei-00 might be "L-00" - Rei-00 being Lilith and the other Ayanami clone having a mixture of Yui and Lilith)
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:53 am

What about ReiQ? I don't really understand why ReiQ exists, other than to pilot the Mark 09 (and it seems to be able to get by without her in the final battle). Maybe she's intended to serve as a host body for the soul of Yui or Lilith? Not sure about the concept of Rei I being Yui (aside from the fact that Yui is not Rei) because the Ayanami Series are based on Yui's genetic information but she predates them, and is thus probably not considered one of them. A good example would be how the Eva Series (except for Unit-01) are based on Adam, but Adam itself is not considered an Evangelion.
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Postby bladerj » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:58 am

What if the children are actually in the core, and the pilots are the clones (data) ? would explain Asuka doll thing, and the fact they dont get old,thus the eva "curse".
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Postby The Killer of Heroes » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:28 am

Bumping this topic because this is an interesting idea.

View Original Postbladerj wrote:What if the children are actually in the core, and the pilots are the clones (data) ? would explain Asuka doll thing, and the fact they dont get old,thus the eva "curse".


So are you positing that Shinji also is a clone then? If so, was Fuyutski just trolling him with the talk of Yui?

EDIT: Also if Asuka was a clone, that might explain why Gendo was so Gendoish during the Bardiel incident, ff she's literally replaceable like Rei in NGE.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:11 am

We can't know for Shinji, since he was absorbed in EVA-01 core during 14 years, so for him time effectively "stopped" during the time skip.
But still I don't think Shinji is a clone, because NERV didn't needed to put an original in the core and a clone as the pilot, since a compatible soul(Yui) was already inside the core.

Besides Shinji already has enough shit piled on him, the last thing he needs is to learn that he isn't even the "natural child" of his parents, but just a male copy of Yui!given that we are not even sure he still human after these 14 years inside the core...
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