The Spears

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:14 pm

What, and not the other way around? What if it's getting to the pilot through the Eva? No pilot might just mean less work.

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:29 pm

View Original PostZoop wrote:Even though Bardiel had no problems with Asuka being present in the Eva, in fact, I think that angel managed to get a hold of the Eva through the pilot.


It got ahold of the Eva long before it had a pilot. It just ate the pilot once she entered the core.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:46 pm

I agree with Zoop. My long-standing analysis of episode 18 is that Bardiel was only able to actively take control of the Eva by virtue of the pilot "completing the circuit", and this setup doesn't change for 2.0. The Angel nestles in the entry plug and prevents its ejection precisely because it was necessary for its operation to proceed. I'm honestly not sure what the Angel was planning to do if the Lilin didn't conveniently make the Eva controllable, but that's neither here nor there.

Bagheera, I don't think Asuka "enters the core" so much as the Angel forms its core around her, since we can actually see red core material work its way up the entry plug and all.

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:54 pm

It was clearly in the Eva long before Asuka set foot in it. The Eva needed to sync to activate, but that doesn't mean the Angel wasn't already there. I'm not sure why it needed to bother given that it could clearly operate without a power supply, but oh well. Whatever the reason sync seems to be the missing ingredient, not just the human pilot. It couldn't sync with the soul in the Eva, so it needed a human to do it.

. . . well, in NGE at least. Since Evas don't have resident souls in the new movies I have no idea why Bardiel was futzing around. Seems it still needed sync for some reason (though not that I think about it, I wonder what pilots are syncing with if not souls?).

Anyway, it was clearly invading both pilot and Eva at the same time, so treating it as one or the other is probably missing the point. It just waited for activation, then said, "Oh goody, now I have you both!" *glomp*
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:58 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Bardiel was only able to actively take control of the Eva by virtue of the pilot "completing the circuit"

Or could it be that it waited for the Eva to be powered? Of course, I suppose that Bardiel/ninth angel has an S2 engine - it's sort of the point, I guess - but I find it hard to see what form that might take in a case like Bardiel/9's, and so I wonder if perhaps it's not suitable for powering a Eva.
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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:02 pm

He needed a jumpstart! :lol:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:30 pm

Besides it's not really pertinent to compare Bardiel and the 12th Angel's means of controlling an Eva, both are two completely different Angels, also even on Mark.06's case the there was a "pilot" completing the circuit, said pilot just being a program instead of a person in flesh and bone.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:19 pm

I never thought that Bardiel was attempting to keep the pilot in. I just assumed that the sticky membrane stuff was just too strong to be broken, not that there was any active attempt to keep the plug inside. Besides, an Eva can be active even when there isn't an entry plug inside of it.

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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:29 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:I never thought that Bardiel was attempting to keep the pilot in. I just assumed that the sticky membrane stuff was just too strong to be broken, not that there was any active attempt to keep the plug inside.

To get this thread back on target: if you're feeling masochistic, you can read my initial manic unearthing of the idea over here. (There are probably less insane reiterations of it, but they're harder for me to find.)

Besides, an Eva can be active even when there isn't an entry plug inside of it.

Being controlled by whatever's in the core (souls in NGE, who the fuck knows in ENT) is a notch different from being controlled by a parasitic interloper unable to directly synchronize with the Eva's core.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:41 pm

At the very least, we know that when the entry plug was destroyed (in both continuum versions) Bardiel's pattern vanished. That shows that the plug had something important to do with sustaining the Angel's life.

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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:47 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:At the very least, we know that when the entry plug was destroyed (in both continuum versions) Bardiel's pattern vanished. That shows that the plug had something important to do with sustaining the Angel's life.

In 2.0, they flat out say that the entry plug contains the core. Though I suspect that this was the case in episode 18 all along, as the inside of Toji's plug is red and marked on-screen as being the 13th Angel.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:49 pm

Sounds like the infection of the pilot (at least in NTE) was just a side-effect, then.


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