DSS Choker

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Actually, that's a very good theory, that would explain how Rei-Q knew exactly where was Shinji when she attacked the Wunder, and if the tracking is good enough, then that would explain how Mark.09 could have smashed the wall just near Shinji without crushing him in the process!

That could be used as an excuse in FINAL for not giving Shinji another one, who knows.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby monitoradiation » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:14 pm

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Does anyone find it a striking coincidence that very shortly after the DSS Choker is activated the Nemesis series come calling. I'd wager NERV is also monitoring the DSS Choker as it's strongly hinted that they designed it, hence they knew Shinji was alive and where to find him.

If this has been pointed out already, disregard this post.


I would say that it's a possibility, but I don't think there's much reason in terms of why anyone would install a monitor for a monitor; or a tracker for a tracker. What's more likely to me is that there's a mole within Wille who's working both sides, the same way that Kaji was between Seele and Nerv.

As far as I'm concerned, Kaworu (and likely Gendo and Fuyu) knew about Operation US since they put the tesseract into space, there was a tracker on it. They knew that it had come back to Earth and likely knew that in order for Wille to utilize Eva-01, they must extract Shinji from the core.

Nerv sends Rei-Q to Wunder to look for Shinji before Misato can explain Rei's situation to Shinji. Shinji happened to shout out of frustration, Rei-Q proceeds to punch a hole into Wunder after hearing him shouting and determining his situation.
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Postby wiser3754 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:07 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Actually, that's a very good theory, that would explain how Rei-Q knew exactly where was Shinji when she attacked the Wunder, and if the tracking is good enough, then that would explain how Mark.09 could have smashed the wall just near Shinji without crushing him in the process!

That could be used as an excuse in FINAL for not giving Shinji another one, who knows.


While going a bit off topic, would anyone think that the Nemesis series merely attacked simply to test the WUNDER and isolate weak spots? From a tactical position, it's best to find recon your enemy first, then attack where parts of them are weak.
I watch and speculate.

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:38 am

^
That's a possibility : Gendo needed the Wunder functioning to stop 4I later as part of his plan to double-cross SEELE, but after that he will have to defeat WILLE and their Wunder in FINAL to launch his Final Impact, so taking the opportunity to collect some data is good for the future.

Still I think that the NS main objective was to keep the pressure on WILLE(remember that Misato said that "they're back", meaning that they have been harassing the fleet since quite some time, probably since they retrieved the fallen tesseract), to force them to install EVA-01 as fast as possible while don't give them the time to properly take care of the "Shinji situation", so that when Gendo sent Mark.09 with "Rei" in it, Shinji will follow her willingly because he wasn't informed enough about the situation from WILLE, too busy to fend off NS, manage the reparations and find a safe place to continue their supplying and outfitting, all the while having the Wunder in a flying state so that they will be able to intercept 4I as soon as EVA-13 is ready.
And everything has gone according to his plan. :emogendo:


The only thing I still can't see is how he planned to deal with the DSS Choker : let's imagine that Misato actually pushed the detonation button, what would had happened? Was Mark.09 equipped with a way to jam the DSS trigger signal, would Shinji's head gone boom and Gendo used what remained of the body to clone him and somehow recuperate his soul, would it had actually completely thwarted Gendo's and SEELE's plans and the former made a big gamble, betting that Misato wouldn't have the ruthlessness to kill Shinji?

I hope it's not the last solution : that would mean that the best thing was indeed for Shinji to die, and the only way to counter that is if Shinji brings something only he can do and which will be pivotal in defeating Gendo in FINAL.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby wiser3754 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:56 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
That's a possibility : Gendo needed the Wunder functioning to stop 4I later as part of his plan to double-cross SEELE, but after that he will have to defeat WILLE and their Wunder in FINAL to launch his Final Impact, so taking the opportunity to collect some data is good for the future.

Still I think that the NS main objective was to keep the pressure on WILLE(remember that Misato said that "they're back", meaning that they have been harassing the fleet since quite some time, probably since they retrieved the fallen tesseract), to force them to install EVA-01 as fast as possible while don't give them the time to properly take care of the "Shinji situation", so that when Gendo sent Mark.09 with "Rei" in it, Shinji will follow her willingly because he wasn't informed enough about the situation from WILLE, too busy to fend off NS, manage the reparations and find a safe place to continue their supplying and outfitting, all the while having the Wunder in a flying state so that they will be able to intercept 4I as soon as EVA-13 is ready.
And everything has gone according to his plan. :emogendo:

The only thing I still can't see is how he planned to deal with the DSS Choker : let's imagine that Misato actually pushed the detonation button, what would had happened? Was Mark.09 equipped with a way to jam the DSS trigger signal, would Shinji's head gone boom and Gendo used what remained of the body to clone him and somehow recuperate his soul, would it had actually completely thwarted Gendo's and SEELE's plans and the former made a big gamble, betting that Misato wouldn't have the ruthlessness to kill Shinji?


You've got to remember, Gendo is still following the scenario (or book of law) according to SEELE up till 4I where he amends the contract and changes the course of history, he could've possibly known ahead of time that Shinji would not have been killed and foresaw that Shinji had made it to NERV, how they do that, I don't know (probably that Visor). Also remember, SEELE also has interest in Shinji, it's even pointed out at the end of 1.11, they couldn't have had him die, they could have also known that Shinji wouldn't have been killed ahead of time.
I watch and speculate.

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:21 am

^
That depends on how you interpret the SDSS to be : are they a simple instruction manual about SoL technology, or did they truly prophesy the future?
Since by the time of Q both Gendo's initial plan to use EVA-01 and SEELE's to use Mark.06 were thrown down the drain, I would tend for the former interpretation.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby monitoradiation » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:28 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:You've got to remember, Gendo is still following the scenario (or book of law) according to SEELE up till 4I where he amends the contract and changes the course of history, he could've possibly known ahead of time that Shinji would not have been killed and foresaw that Shinji had made it to NERV, how they do that, I don't know (probably that Visor). Also remember, SEELE also has interest in Shinji, it's even pointed out at the end of 1.11, they couldn't have had him die, they could have also known that Shinji wouldn't have been killed ahead of time.


Just a bit of clarification - Seele says to Kaworu at the end of 1.11 that the scenario "has been fulfilled to the Book of Law". Meaning that everything beyond 1.11 is after the Book of Law.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
That depends on how you interpret the SDSS to be : are they a simple instruction manual about SoL technology, or did they truly prophesy the future?
Since by the time of Q both Gendo's initial plan to use EVA-01 and SEELE's to use Mark.06 were thrown down the drain, I would tend for the former interpretation.


I would say a bit of both, actually. The SDSS in the Rebuild continuity seems to be an instruction manual on how Impacts work as well as a step-by-step guide (evidenced by Seele telling Kaworu how far the scenario has progressed by referencing the SDSS).

The analogy I would make is that when you purchase something from IKEA, the manual has two things:

1. Bill of materials listing the individual parts and an exploded view of how they fit together.
2. A detailed construction procedure explaining how to put it together.

I'd wager that the SDSS is likely the same. Seele and Gendo found the pieces for the Impacts, learned what the pieces were from the bill of materials and how they're supposed to be put together, but instead of using a bandsaw like the instruction said, decided to use a jackhammer.
"0" is the past, "1" is the future, but "the present" is nowhere - this is an undeniable logic.
Among the countless parallel lines, I settle on "blasphemy" as my choice.

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Postby wiser3754 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:50 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Actually, that's a very good theory, that would explain how Rei-Q knew exactly where was Shinji when she attacked the Wunder, and if the tracking is good enough, then that would explain how Mark.09 could have smashed the wall just near Shinji without crushing him in the process!

That could be used as an excuse in FINAL for not giving Shinji another one, who knows.


Anyone pointed out that the Nemesis series was only acting as a decoy in order for the Mark.09 to slip under the radar in the chaos and then strike? It's also surprising she comes seeking for Shinji when both the Captain and Vice Captain aren't on the bridge and in a weak spot on the WUNDER (Quarantine visiting room is right next to the HULL) to evaluate the situation properly, maybe kill them both and then abduct Shinji, two birds with one stone.

This speculation plays into the DSS Choker being a spy device which NERV tapped into.
I watch and speculate.

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:22 am

It's implied that between the NS attack and Shinji's briefing in the interrogation room various hours have passed(he had the time to take a nap in his cell), so I don't think that the NS's goal was to serve as a decoy for Mark.09, at the best I would see them used to keep WILLE under pressure so they don't have the time to properly inform Shinji until Mark.09 arrives.
We can't rule out the possibility that Mark.09 could slip under Wunder's radar because it was the ADAM's Vessel, it's "original master".

But yes, the timing of the attack was too perfect to be mere coincidence : Shinji in an easily accessible room, with the two highest officer of the ship with him, just after they told him that Rei "doesn't exist anymore" but just before they had the time to explain what they meant by that.
It seems that Gendo had a way to monitor what was happening in the Wunder, and waited the precise moment to order to Rei-Q to begin her attack.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:33 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:But yes, the timing of the attack was too perfect to be mere coincidence : Shinji in an easily accessible room, with the two highest officer of the ship with him, just after they told him that Rei "doesn't exist anymore" but just before they had the time to explain what they meant by that.
It seems that Gendo had a way to monitor what was happening in the Wunder, and waited the precise moment to order to Rei-Q to begin her attack.

Honestly, I have no problem with the timing being mere chance that suits the story-telling. If there was some reason why that chance would be less likely to happen, that might be another matter - but I don't see one.
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:19 am

Gendo never leave anything to chance, especially if it's the recuperation of a vital piece of his scheme that he can't afford to be too knowledgeable, lest he would become too difficult to manipulate.

We're talking about the guy who made a whole set of clones of Rei in the case she gets killed!

EDIT : Now that I think about it, if Gendo managed to hack the DSS Choker to monitor him in the interrogation room, it's possible that Rei-Q's "telepathic" call to Shinji was broadcast directly into his brain via the Choker.

That would also explain why Gendo made a move so bold : he didn't bet on Misato's feelings preventing her from blowing off Shinji's head, Gendo had control over the DSS trigger all along, and had Misato pushed the button, nothing would had happened.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:32 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:That would also explain why Gendo made a move so bold : he didn't bet on Misato's feelings preventing her from blowing off Shinji's head, Gendo had control over the DSS trigger and had Misato pushed the button, nothing would had happened.


Ha ha, I like this idea! Misato's feelings have worked in his favor - again, she doesn't know and neither does the audience, by proxy - that the DSS Choker isn't in her control any longer. And if she knew the DSS Choker was no longer under her control, she had nothing to do except take the course of action she already took. It works perfectly!
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Postby monitoradiation » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:39 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:EDIT : Now that I think about it, if Gendo managed to hack the DSS Choker to monitor him in the interrogation room, it's possible that Rei-Q's "telepathic" call to Shinji was broadcast directly into his brain via the Choker.

That would also explain why Gendo made a move so bold : he didn't bet on Misato's feelings preventing her from blowing off Shinji's head, Gendo had control over the DSS trigger all along, and had Misato pushed the button, nothing would had happened.


First off, we're not exactly sure which Rei made the telepathic call to Shinji. I had assumed that it wasnt Rei-Q because if shes only talking to Shinji throughout the scene there is no need to start using loudspeakers after she broke in unless telepathy is very taxing somehow.

That aside, even if we assume that the voice Shinji heard was Rei-Q, While that is within the realm of possibilities, it seems pretty ham fisted to say that the choker is now also a communications device with the wearer's brain...
"0" is the past, "1" is the future, but "the present" is nowhere - this is an undeniable logic.
Among the countless parallel lines, I settle on "blasphemy" as my choice.

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:16 pm

^
Well, that was just a theory, and that device is clearly far more sophisticated than a vulgar bomb collar, for using Angel Sealing Glyphs offensively like it did to kill the wearer, we don't know what these glyphs are, nor the extend of their power.
And I would really find it a very odd coincidence if Rei II made a telepathic call exactly when Mark.09 attacked.

As for the telepathic call, it's possible that it was sent to precisely localize Shinji in the Wunder, and once they made eye contact, Rei-Q switched to the loudspeakers so Shinji had the confirmation that the voice came from her Eva.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby monitoradiation » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:36 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:And I would really find it a very odd coincidence if Rei II made a telepathic call exactly when Mark.09 attacked.

As for the telepathic call, it's possible that it was sent to precisely localize Shinji in the Wunder, and once they made eye contact, Rei-Q switched to the loudspeakers so Shinji had the confirmation that the voice came from her Eva.


It's a hypothesis that I immediately thought of when you posited that the collar is a communications device. And fair point.

Except if Gendo had control of the collar to be able to have Rei-Q send signals to it to Shinji's head, it seems weird to have to have Shinji call out his location instead of using a built-in pinpoint locator or even a echolocation function.
"0" is the past, "1" is the future, but "the present" is nowhere - this is an undeniable logic.
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:00 pm

View Original Postmonitoradiation wrote:Except if Gendo had control of the collar to be able to have Rei-Q send signals to it to Shinji's head, it seems weird to have to have Shinji call out his location instead of using a built-in pinpoint locator or even a echolocation function.

Fair point, then maybe the telepathic message was just to confuse Shinji even more and made him get more frustrated against the other WILLE members who doesn't hear the call, I wouldn't put it past Gendo.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:14 pm

View Original Postmonitoradiation wrote:it seems weird to have to have Shinji call out his location instead of using a built-in pinpoint locator or even a echolocation function.

(1) He's confused enough that expecting him to work out that he doesn't need to reply to a call would be out of place.

(2) It's easier for the audience to get what's happening this way.
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Postby monitoradiation » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:11 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:(1) He's confused enough that expecting him to work out that he doesn't need to reply to a call would be out of place.

(2) It's easier for the audience to get what's happening this way.


All fair points. Assuming that the DSS choker has only high level functions like telepathically dial into Shinji's brain but does not have a rudimentary tracking system, it does make sense that Shinji needs to tell Rei-Q where he is on Wunder. And the extra PokaPoka is good incentive.

And listening back to the telepathy, the "Ikari-kun, doko" sure sounds like something Rei-Q would say over Poka Rei since Rei-Q is shown to be very minimalist in her use of language.
"0" is the past, "1" is the future, but "the present" is nowhere - this is an undeniable logic.
Among the countless parallel lines, I settle on "blasphemy" as my choice.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:51 am

^
But I think that the DSS Choker has a tracking system, TMBounty_Hunter managed to make a complete list of the functions that appears when Ritsuko his configuring the DSS Trigger, and among them there is :
Subject Status Monitoring, Primary/Secondary ??????:
ACTIVE

Location Beacon:
ACTIVE


So one possibility is that the tracking system is no precise enough to let Rei-Q know with exactitude the room in which Shinji is, and thus need to make a "telepathic" contact with him...

Or it could be that it's actually part of the masquerade : after all Shinji only answered "I'm here!", not "I'm in the interrogation room 101 on the starboard side of the central bow, close to the central wing, you can't miss me!"
So what if Rei-Q had his exact location since the beginning of the attack, but was ordered by Gendo to still call for him to make the scene more "dramatic", like "Ikari-kun, I'm here to save you, where are you!"



What, Gendo always had a knack for dramatic and precisely timed entries to leave the maximum impact on other peoples, apparently that didn't changed in the past 14 years! :lol:
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:17 am

Some of these conspiracy theories are getting weird even for Rebuild.
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