Mark.06 in 3.0 Discussion

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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wiser3754
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Postby wiser3754 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:37 am

The failures of Infinity in the shaft are carbon copies of EVA 01 and they're climbing up from Lilith's chamber, so Mark.06 couldn't have been the cause, unless EVA 01 awoke and saw the carnage and used the spear of cassius to impale Mark.06. But by doing so it came into contact with Lilith for a brief moment and changed the image of the FOI (my opinion).
Also, there was a lid on the shaft leading to terminal dogma for the last 14 years, so then again, how did the Mark.06 type Evas make it out if the copies of it were being produced via Mark.06/Lilith?

Also remember, Gendo was trying to kill (and succeeded) Lilith, and by doing so, humanity can't reproduce (no souls are being released, door of Guf is closed) and the only path now is to evolve through Instrumentality.

By the way, has anyone mentioned that the Mark.06 may have been using the 12th angel as it's power core, hence the name "True Evangelion" by SEELE, an actual god (like the awoken EVA 01)?

Feel free to add, destroy, contradict it's a forum after all.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:45 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:
Also remember, Gendo was trying to kill (and succeeded) Lilith, and by doing so, humanity can't reproduce (no souls are being released, door of Guf is closed) and the only path now is to evolve through Instrumentality.


Highly unlikely. Although we don't get any direct indication to the contrary in Q, in NGE Episode 23 it is stated that the Chamber of Guf is already empty, presumably due to Lilith releasing all of humanity's souls when she landed on Earth. Certainly humanity had no trouble reproducing before the Door of Guf appeared during 2I and 3I. In fact, we can't see any souls in the Guf when the Door is opened, just the weird crosses and white orb, so it may not even be a soul container this time.

As for the copies of Eva-01, it is possible that Eva-01 was being used to start Impact like in EoE, but the Mark.06 attempted to prevent a Lilith-based Impact which would be detrimental to Angels and ended up Spearing Lilith before being Speared itself. Or the 12th was trying to fuse with the awakened Lilith and interefere with Impact, but was Speared while trying to do so.
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Postby gchristnsn » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:48 am

We forget that there are at least two hints that Lilith's resurrection somehow deals with Ayanami, and the decapitation of FOIs may somehow be related to the decapitation of Lilith.
If they're are decapitated just because their time is limited as in EoE (for example, Lilith is decapitated after fertilization by a FOI, so FOIs symbolize decayed sperm cells), Mark 06. may be needed solely to hibernate Lilith with spears to stop Lilith's division (and also convert her remnants to a core). It also may be needed to suppress Lilith's will to fertilize her. Although it may definitely be identified as Angel because it's autonomous and is made from Adam's material.
Seele intended to make a true (awakened) Evangelion with two cores from it, but failed, because they somehow need Lilith's embryo for this. Unit 13 has become such a Evangelion.
A short guide to NGE

- Simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones. - Occam's razor
- Since we can never know anything for sure, it is simply not worth searching for certainty; but it is well worth searching for truth; and we do this chiefly by searching for mistakes, so that we have to correct them. - Karl Popper

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:21 am

There is a problem with that theory : if Mark.06's goal was just to "freeze" Lilith's fertilization process, then why when the spears were removed Lilith's corpse exploded instead of resuming her cellular division?
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Postby gchristnsn » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:32 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:There is a problem with that theory : if Mark.06's goal was just to "freeze" Lilith's fertilization process, then why when the spears were removed Lilith's corpse exploded instead of resuming her cellular division?


Don't know. But it would explode right after fertilization, and because there is no appropriate pilot for a emotional burst needed to awake true Evangelion, they might choose to freeze it to wait for a pilot.
A short guide to NGE

- Simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones. - Occam's razor
- Since we can never know anything for sure, it is simply not worth searching for certainty; but it is well worth searching for truth; and we do this chiefly by searching for mistakes, so that we have to correct them. - Karl Popper

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:17 am

View Original Postgchristnsn wrote:If they're are decapitated just because their time is limited as in EoE (for example, Lilith is decapitated after fertilization by a FOI, so FOIs symbolize decayed sperm cells), Mark 06. may be needed solely to hibernate Lilith with spears to stop Lilith's division (and also convert her remnants to a core). .


There's no evidence of the FOIs "fertilising" Lilith in Q, particularly as it seems that none of their bodies made it to her chamber. Additionally, we still don't know how and why she was decapitated. Her remains also haven't turned to core, so the Mark.06 probably isn't for that purpose.

It is plausible that the Spears were intended to stop Lilith from decaying further, although that still doesn't explain why the Mark.06 was fused with Lilith. It is also significant that it appears the Mark.06 is responsible for Spearing itself, and that it is fused with the Lilith's neck stump. So it is not too far-fetched to say that the Mark.06 was the one who decapitated Lilith, and then fused with her neck.
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Postby gchristnsn » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:27 am

Yes, it may had decapitated Lilith if it was necessary, for example, to suppress her will. And it frozen itself because it's needed for the transformation of Lilith's remnants.

But Lilith's skin, the embryo and hardened shell of FOIs, supported by the reference to the scene from "Apollo's Song" manga suggest that probability of fertilization by FOIs is very high.
A short guide to NGE

- Simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones. - Occam's razor
- Since we can never know anything for sure, it is simply not worth searching for certainty; but it is well worth searching for truth; and we do this chiefly by searching for mistakes, so that we have to correct them. - Karl Popper

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:32 am

View Original Postgchristnsn wrote:But Lilith's skin, the embryo and hardened shell of FOIs, supported by the reference to the scene from "Apollo's Song" manga suggest that probability of fertilization by FOIs is very high.


I don't think that "Apollo's Song" is considered a heavy influence on NME. If you could support that assumption with evidence from the movie (quotes that indicate Lilith has been "fertilised"; evidence of other "Apollo's Song" references in Q, comparison images) in the FOI thread, then I might start to believe in it more.

I agree that the Mark.06 may have been trying to suppress Lilith's will, but I don't see why turning her into core is necessary as well, since wouldn't turning her into core make her invincible like the Twelfth Angel and the Mark.09? That also doesn't seem to be SEELE/Gendo's intention, as they've put their plans into motion at the time of Q, even though Lilith is not completely turned to core. The Mark.06 itself doesn't seem remotely core-ified.
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Postby gchristnsn » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:37 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:I agree that the Mark.06 may have been trying to suppress Lilith's will, but I don't see why turning her into core is necessary as well, since wouldn't turning her into core make her invincible like the Twelfth Angel and the Mark.09? That also doesn't seem to be SEELE/Gendo's intention, as they've put their plans into motion at the time of Q, even though Lilith is not completely turned to core. The Mark.06 itself doesn't seem remotely core-ified.


A creation of the true Evangelion may require two cores of different fruits and pilot's emotional burst. Seele needs Lilith's fruit to create a true Evangelion in combination with Adam-based 13. So it uses Mark 06 to convert her remnants to a consumable form (a core).
A short guide to NGE

- Simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones. - Occam's razor
- Since we can never know anything for sure, it is simply not worth searching for certainty; but it is well worth searching for truth; and we do this chiefly by searching for mistakes, so that we have to correct them. - Karl Popper

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Postby wiser3754 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:02 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:There is a problem with that theory : if Mark.06's goal was just to "freeze" Lilith's fertilization process, then why when the spears were removed Lilith's corpse exploded instead of resuming her cellular division?


Remember, Kaworu when analysing the spears he mentions that Cassius had morphed to Longinus due to the LILIN, the Mark.06 may have been wielding it, hence when Cassius morphed and then removed with the other spear it killed Lilith.
Also, when Gendo is talking to SEELE for the last time he mentions that "I have killed the God you have long since abandoned", so yeah, Lilith is dead. And since you can't rebuild humanity from the FOI back to Lilith's image because she's dead, they can't be restored.

Just as a side note, I believe the Spear Cassius represents the mood or state of the LILIN and by saying this, because humanity is in a constant destructive war with each other and negative thoughts are dominant, Cassius morphed to Longinus, with Longinus being the Destrudo ego (destructive force) and Cassius being the Libido ego (growing force), hence when Unit 01 was about to unleash Third Impact (Destruction force) the Libido force (Spear of Cassius) cancelled it out. But that's my take.
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Postby gchristnsn » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:29 pm

^ It's toooo far fetched, because Cassius and Longinus refer to the same biblical figure, and probably there are spears of just one kind (they're just metamorphic living beings created by FAR to hibernate SoLs).
And Gendo promises Seele to kill some god they have abandoned, he probably needs army of green MPEs exactly for this.
Humanity actually can not be restored, because spears are needed just to freeze Lilith and Mark 06, and Seele's plan was to create the true Evangelion from 13 using Shinji to generate emotional burst for awakening.
A short guide to NGE

- Simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones. - Occam's razor
- Since we can never know anything for sure, it is simply not worth searching for certainty; but it is well worth searching for truth; and we do this chiefly by searching for mistakes, so that we have to correct them. - Karl Popper

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Postby wiser3754 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:42 pm

View Original Postgchristnsn wrote:^ It's toooo far fetched, because Cassius and Longinus refer to the same biblical figure, and probably there are spears of just one kind (they're just metamorphic living beings created by FAR to hibernate SoLs).
And Gendo promises Seele to kill some god they have abandoned, he probably needs army of green MPEs exactly for this.
Humanity actually can not be restored, because spears are needed just to freeze Lilith and Mark 06, and Seele's plan was to create the true Evangelion from 13 using Shinji to generate emotional burst for awakening.


Gendo says to SEELE, "I've also killed the God you have long since abandoned", the God being either Mark.06 or Lilith, is dead. Remember, SEELE were born before the first human civilization, the God you have long since abandoned could referring to Lilith, who is dead. And the True evangelion was Mark.06, it's mentioned in 2.0 and don't forget, EVA 01 is also now a true evangelion (a god).

Also, has anyone mentioned that the L barrier may be used as a sensor screen to hide all the MP EVA's that may be laying dormant in underground tunnels underneath? It's a thought that just came to mind.
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Postby gchristnsn » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:09 pm

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Gendo says to SEELE, "I've also killed the God you have long since abandoned", the God being either Mark.06 or Lilith, is dead. Remember, SEELE were born before the first human civilization, the God you have long since abandoned could referring to Lilith, who is dead. And the True evangelion was Mark.06, it's mentioned in 2.0 and don't forget, EVA 01 is also now a true evangelion (a god).


No, he promises Seele to accomplish HIP and kill the god after this. And they failed with 06 as true Evangelion because it was 01 at the end of 2.0.
A short guide to NGE

- Simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones. - Occam's razor
- Since we can never know anything for sure, it is simply not worth searching for certainty; but it is well worth searching for truth; and we do this chiefly by searching for mistakes, so that we have to correct them. - Karl Popper

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Postby wiser3754 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:55 am

Sorry, where the hell did I get that line in my head? Disregard.
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Postby airman4 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:19 pm

wiser3754

Stupid question

Why mark 06 is a giant eva ?
I mean , it's twice the size of eva 13 wich seems BIG already

true eva is not only mark 06 suggested by his giant size ?

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:40 pm

It was already asked before : Mark.06 was the same size as a regular Evangelion, but when it fused with Lilith it "inflated" and took that white color.

When the spears are pulled out the Mark.06 retake its original size(compare its size with Mark.09 when it decapitates it)
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby airman4 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:05 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:It was already asked before : Mark.06 was the same size as a regular Evangelion, but when it fused with Lilith it "inflated" and took that white color.

When the spears are pulled out the Mark.06 retake its original size(compare its size with Mark.09 when it decapitates it)


Oh ok
thanks very much

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Postby wiser3754 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:06 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:It was already asked before : Mark.06 was the same size as a regular Evangelion, but when it fused with Lilith it "inflated" and took that white color.

When the spears are pulled out the Mark.06 retake its original size(compare its size with Mark.09 when it decapitates it)


The lingering questions about Mark.06 are as follows:

-It merged with Lilith, but the FOI are in EVA-01's image and Lilith bares no resemblance to Mark.06, why?

-It held the Cassius (now morphed to Longinus as Kaworu concludes) spear in an attempt to impale itself or trying to stop it's attacker from impaling it, which one is it?

-The twelve angel was found alive inside of it, whether the twelve angel was powering the Mark.06 at first (hence Mark.06's halo in 2.0 and briefly shown it 3.0) , the twelve angel made contact with Lilith and set off 3rd impact (FOi and Lilith's image don't add up with the exception of the head) or the twelve angel (made entirely out of core, wink) was born of Lilith via the merger of Mark.06 and Lilith.

-Made into an autonomous type, exploited by NERV and SEELE and brought to ruin. Why make it autonomous and what made it autonomous, dummy plug or the twelve angel taking control of it?

Any more lingering questions that I've missed, or these have already been answered, comment.
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Postby airman4 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:01 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Any more lingering questions that I've missed, or these have already been answered, comment.


Did mark 06 got the lilith mask before it was construct ?

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Postby wiser3754 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:17 am

View Original Postairman4 wrote:Did mark 06 got the lilith mask before it was construct ?


The mask on Lilith is her actual face, 2nd Angel remember. That mask found on mark.06 before it's helmet and armor are strapped on is one of SEELE's insignias. And god knows what Mark.06 was made from.
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