Explanation of Evangelion 3.0

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Postby duo_rei » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:03 am

View Original Postqu4d wrote:Yeah, the picture of Rei is from another scene, but I didnt really know what other picture I should have used... just gimme one and I'll replace it :P


How about this one? ;)

Image

It's actually the frame immediately after the previous one of Rei III-in-LCL. She's hallucinating about her past self....
Taken directly out of the film book so sorry for the shitty quality orz

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Postby qu4d » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:17 am

Oki doki, done :P

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Postby Sakuranagashi » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:34 am

FYI,this is the collection of カヲル's line
http://blog.livedoor.jp/yedofactory/archives/20274120.html

in fact i watched Q twice but i'm still in trouble interpreting the story
well i know it's exactly the feature of Evangelion
judging from what Kaworu said in Ha and Q,i'm sure that the rebuild series is a sort of time loop
but this loop does not include EOE,i think

anyway from some articles i saw on the web i will list what is unclear after Q
・Kaji missing
・why such a big disaster(called "Near 3rd Impact" in Q) happened though the the Lance of Cassius had pierced Eva 01 just after Shinji's awakening
・for some reason the Lance pierced Mark 6
・the circumstances of the internal division of NERV
・the sudden change of Misato's personality and who new characters are(i mean i wonder whether they were necessary)
・where Poka-nami has gone(in Eva 01,the core of Wunder? but how)
・no explanations for how Asuka and Mari became acquainted with each other
・no scenes used in the preview of next installment of Q afar Ha(Gendou and Fuyutsuki climbing the mountain,Kaji about to shoot someone,etc,.)
・the most of Kaworu's line;
碇シンジ君。
君の希望はドグマの爆心地に残る2本の槍だけだ。
それが補完計画発動のキーとなっている。
僕らでその槍を手にすればいい。
そうすれば、ネルフもフォースインパクトを起こせなくなるし、第13号機とセットで使えば世界の修復も可能だ。

あぁ、全てインフィニティのなり損ない達だ。
君は気にしなくていい。

君のせいじゃない。
僕が第13の使徒になってしまったからね。
僕がトリガーだ。



incidentally,Kaworu died 31 minutes after the remark of Fuyutsuki,
"31手先で君の詰みだ / You will lose in another 31 turns"



sorry for my poor english
Last edited by Sakuranagashi on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Xard » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:45 am

Welcome to the forum Sakuranagashi :)

"31手先で君の詰みだ / You will lose in another 31 turns"


hahahaha :lol:

Fuyutsuki may get older but he's raking in those cool points
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Sakuranagashi » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:28 am

thank u for ur quick response,Xard

haha true
but i had bitter feelings when i watched Kaworu's death for the first time......
if i were Shinji,i'd have no choice but to come to like Kaworu as long as i were treated in such a terrible way
speaking of Misato,her remaks in Q contradict the ones in Ha;
行きなさいシンジ君!!誰かの為じゃない、あなた自身の願いの為に!

碇シンジ君、あなたはもう、何もしないで。

well she she hesitated to push the DSS Choker and seemed to have affection toward Shinji

the ending song "桜流し" also made me about to shed tears 'cause its lyrics reminded me of Kaworu (but the writer herself didnt complete them without knowing the contents of Q haha)
of course i bought the song no sooner than i had come back home

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Postby Reichu » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:49 pm

Split out some posts (Sakura Nagashi's don't really belong here, either, but after doing two split-merges on a single thread you don't feel like doing a third right away), and restoring this bit from SSD:

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Fixed a few mistakes in the first post. I'm waiting for more information about the Angels and Eva units in 3.0 until I add them (same with the plot summary by qu4d).
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:24 am

Finally added a tweaked version of qu4d's 3.0 summary to the first post.

Since people keep on posting the incorrect things in this thread, this is what this "Explanation of" thread is based on, just in more detail:

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Resources:Explanation_of_Evangelion_1.01

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Resources:Explanation_of_Evangelion_2.22

I hope to slowly add info about the Angels/Nemesis Series and Eva units in 3.0, too.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:27 pm

This thread gets continuously hijacked from its original purpose, so I'm going to lock it and leave any possible resuscitation to SSD.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:54 pm

This thread's meant for "Explanation of Evangelion X.XX" supplement posts.

If you want analysis discussion, go to the split: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/13920/SPOILERS-Split-Q-Plot-Analysis-Thread/

Thread locked for the time being since people keep misusing it.
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Postby Reichu » Wed May 01, 2013 11:55 am

I'm experimentally unlocking this in case anyone wants to add some "Explanation"-type posts to supplement the OP.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed May 01, 2013 3:01 pm

This thread's meant for anybody to add informative things to be included in the first post (for instance, that summary written by qu4d). Feel free to contribute, but please folks, don't bump it with off-topic things as it constantly happened before.
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Postby Reichu » Wed May 01, 2013 3:07 pm

[Removed]
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
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Postby yogurtforthesoul » Mon May 13, 2013 6:49 pm

View Original PostdeeRez wrote:That was Shinji's doing - Asuka summons Shinji inside the Tesseract with the power of "baka."


I was going to add that. plus in the movie they also mention that unit 01 became active for 12 seconds (the time it took to slaughter that angel, apparently with it's EYE--it just MIGHT have the power to kill "god"). Shinji may not have had anything to do with what DID happen, it could have been the "soul" (or possible "soulS" within 01) of Shinji's mother or even Rei if she was fully absorbed into 01.

Anyway, from how many people treat Shinji and the fact that at the end of 2.22 we see unit 01 speared by Kaworu Nagisa in unit 06 who just so happened to notice that Lilith had two spears in her. One that pierced her, alone, and the other that Nagisa noticed that pierces both her AND unit 06. 01 seemingly stopped it's "3rd impact" as soon as it was speared and to be honest nothing really bad had happened yet at all. BUT, Nagisa is the one who speared Shinji IN unit 06...so why in the hell is it now at the bottom of central dogma speared with Lilith. Remember that Nagisa told Shinji that the 3rd impact was centered AT central dogma, which is why that strange "lid" they needed to break through was above the speared angel...

I think most of the NERV staff got taken away, or something like that, from the area where Lilith was being held underground and also where 01 was possibly still at--till they "punished" Shinji and put him in orbit inside the tesseract. I think when 3rd impact happened since it was so close to unit 01 that they naturally assumed that it was Shinji's doing and his fault. The truth is more likely that somebody yanked out the lance already in Lilith below, she awakened and started to join with 06 as it had the child of Adam in it. Then, most likely Rei, speared both Lilith and unit 06. But not before everything went to hell up above and who the hell knows if the "doors of Guf" swallowed the two before they were ended. Somehow during all of this Lilith's head ended up in that chamber where Gendo is at and it's also why it "explodes".

I think if something like the old Evangelion happens were all the souls meet together and converse, everyone will finally be forced to recognize the horrible atrocity and sin they've committed against Shinji and that it was someone else--someone who refused or didn't realize that they had actually caused it all. For all we know 06 was in some kind of automatic pilot mode when it happened.

Anyway, I'm fairly certain now that Shinji HAS NOT committed any great sin. Although he definitely WAS an idiot for the near fourth impact--that was more his fault in my eyes. Everyone else is putting the weight of the world AND the sins of the world on the shoulders of some 14-year old kid. What do they expect? In that regard Evangelion has done a good job of not creating a super-stoic-badass hero teenager that saves the world. Instead, he's just another human being just trying to do what he believes is right and what he can do when able...
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 14, 2013 4:30 am

My take about what could have happened between 2.0 and 3.0 :

Maybe Shinji's N3I caused the detention of all NERV personnel like we saw in the preview, and the protection of Lilith was assigned to the JSSDF, explaining all these tanks, hummers and VTOL in the ruins of the old NERV and in Lilith's chamber. To assist them : Mark.06, refitted as an autonomous unit. As for Unit-01, it stayed on confinement, still speared by Mark.06 and surrounded by Angel-sealing Hex pillars, until SEELE decides what to do with it.

If SEELE's influence is the same that it was in NGE, then they controlled in the shadows most of the worlds governments and organisations, including the IPEA and the Japanese government, and thus indirectly the JSSDF.

So by detaining all of NERV personnel for "interrogation", putting the officers of the JSSDF on charge with Mark.06, SEELE took control of NERV's HQ from Gendo, as a punishment for awakening Unit-01 while it was Mark.06 the one which was planed to become a "true god", and to make sure that he don't pull others shady schemes on their backs.
As for why Mark.06 was made into an autonomous unit? Maybe SEELE needed Kaworu somewhere else, maybe they didn't wanted to risk the life of the First Angel because the SDSS scenario said that he must stay alive; or maybe they didn't trusted him enough to let him pilot Mark.06 anymore, who knows?

Anyway soon after that, the 11th Angel appears, get dealt with, and some time after that comes the 12th. As expected the JSSDF is completely useless, and surprisingly Mark.06 too, because of the Angel peculiar body all attacks goes through him without any damage, like a stream of water. So it's decided to pull the Cassius spear from EVA-01 to use it against the Angel... which ended useless too, as the spear go through the Angel like any other attacks. The 12th then manages to reach Lilith's Chamber and shit hit the fan.
As a last ditch move, Mark.06 pulls the same move as Rei II against Armisael in NGE : it absorb the 12th Angel in its entirety, and spears itself to freeze the 12th Angel and Lilith.

Now where does Lilith's awakening and the FoIs fit in those events? My personal take : assuming that like in NGE, EVA-01 is made from Lilith and that Rei's soul is actually Lilith's, when Unit-01 absorbed Zerue's core with Rei's soul and evolved, it resulted in a completely awakened and enhanced Lilith : we have the body(EVA-01), the soul(Rei II) and the evolution brought by an ADAM based lifeform(Zeruel's core). By that logic, the resulting entity should be more or less as powerful as GNR in EoE, but was "frozen" by the Cassius spear.
When Mark.06 pulled out the Spear to try to kill the 12th Angel, Rei/Lilith's conscience awakened, and connected with the other part of her body, the one in Central Dogma, and from here I have two possible scenarios :
1/ Lilith sensed the 12th approaching the Chamber without any resistance, panicked and remotely took control of her body down there, ordering it to fight the 12th. Hence Lilith's "awakening"(which was in fact just the body being remotely commanded), her body taking the image of her soul, explaining the head changing into Rei's. A fight between Lilith's body and the 12th happened while Mar.06 was descending with the Spear. But because of the spear of Longinus in its chest, Lilith was weakened and thus losing badly against the 12th, so in a desperate move, Eva-01 used whatever magic it possesses to turn the surrounding landscape into core material, and used it to summon an army to protect the body in Central Dogma, an army created at the image of the body the soul of Lilith inhabited, hence why all the FoI are at EVA-01 image. The big problem is that with that stunt, Lilith kinda killed everyone unfortunate enough to still reside in Tokyo-3, and apparently triggered another Impact, the continuation of N3I into proper 3I...
Seeing the huge out of control shitstorm, SEELE ordered to the automated Mark.06 to spear again Lilith with the Longinus lance, absorb the 12th Angel and spear itself, the absorbed 12th and Lilith's body again to stop this madness, and to hell with the covenant with Lilith or the transforming of Mark.06 into a true god. After that, seeing how powerful EVA-01 had become, decided that the best course of action was to send this thing in orbit so that it won't create more problems and derails SEELE's scenario, they could come back for it later if they really need to.
2/ Same thing until EVA-01 got unspeared and the connection between Lilith's body down in Central Dogma and her soul in EVA-01 is made, except this time instead of remotely control it, the body get on "auto-pilot" and the 12th Angel make contact with it. Follows a "battle of wills" between the 12th Angel and Lilith body, during which all the madness around(landscape turned into core, FoI, and global death of the biosphere)happens, in short 3I for good, until Mark.06 intervene and stop everything with the Spears.

And Shinji in all of this : still trapped in stasis inside 01's core, completely unaware of the hell that was unleashed outside...


So depending on what WILLE knows, or think they knows, about everyone's roles during N3I and 3I, their resentment for Shinji could come from the fact they think that :
- had Shinji didn't pulled that little stunt against Zeruel and launched N3I, SEELE wouldn't have been able to take NERV control from them, they could have been here when the 12th showed up and would have probably managed the situation far better than the JSSDF
- maybe he was partially aware and responsible when EVA-01 awakened, hence the fear and hate they feel for that boy who tried to play with godly forces far beyond his reach.
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Postby Jinroh » Tue May 14, 2013 4:50 am

I wouldn't go as far as to speculate about what happened with Lilith, there are endless possibilities. But three things I maintain since the beginning, even though (at first) nearly nobody agreed:

- I'm sure there's still a link between unit 01 and Lilith
- I'm sure the preview events really happened
- And I'm sure FoIs have nothing to do with near third impact, no magical eye of the storm.

If we put everything together as you did it starts to make some sense. But whatever happens, we still need to figure out the role of unit 08, angels 11 and 12, how long did that impact last and what really happened in there.

I just can't figure out how earth was really impacted, where that gigantic inverted pyramid comes from and its function, why we have things moved around (lilith's head, FoIs' heads, the moon...), etc. I actually miss the "simplicity" of the original show. Here it gets so messy that I'm really starting to wonder if Anno himself can explain the whole mess.

And I still wonder if it was really wise to skip the equivalent of a whole movie. They better come back to it and explain it in one way or another (novel, new movie, mini series), otherwise the show can't be considered a complete experience and I find that terribly frustrating.

Barely anything happens in the third movie, and so many things happened during the time gap...

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 14, 2013 5:11 am

Well, the "simplicity" of the original show come from the fact that we saw the Impact happening in all its details... imagine a movie were you ends up directly to the landscape of the beach of the final scene of EoE : red sea, everything in ruins, petrified MP-EVAs in a cross position, a fucking giant Rei half-head... you would be probably as lost as when we discovered the crazy landscape around the Altar!

As for the 12th Angel, there is something I'm sure : it didn't managed to fuse with Lilith. When Mark.09 liberated it from Mark.06, it was whole and still in an independent body. had it at least managed to start to fuse with Lilith, I think it would still be somehow connected to her body when freed from Mark.06, instead of starting to fly freely.
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Postby TheFriskyIan » Tue May 14, 2013 8:02 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:As for the 12th Angel, there is something I'm sure : it didn't managed to fuse with Lilith. When Mark.09 liberated it from Mark.06, it was whole and still in an independent body. had it at least managed to start to fuse with Lilith, I think it would still be somehow connected to her body when freed from Mark.06, instead of starting to fly freely.

Didn't it fuse with her fluid when she disintegrated?
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Postby Jinroh » Tue May 14, 2013 8:08 am

He's talking about third impact, not the events of the third movie.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 14, 2013 8:26 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:He's talking about third impact, not the events of the third movie.

Indeed.

Although that rise a question : the script said that when the spears are pulled out, Lilith's body turns into LCL. Then apparently the 12th Angel absorb said goo and morphs into the hideous red-foetus-Rei... thing. But why absorbing Lilith's LCL would turn the 12th into that? Isn't LCL just... LCL? Is there different types of LCL : sea LCL, Angel LCL, produced by Lilith LCL, directly from Lilith's dissovling LCL?
Why then wouldn't an Angel try to start an impact by entering in contact with the LCL in a pilot's entry plug, since it's made from Lilith's body?(right?)
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Postby Monk Ed » Tue May 14, 2013 9:08 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:And I still wonder if it was really wise to skip the equivalent of a whole movie. They better come back to it and explain it in one way or another (novel, new movie, mini series), otherwise the show can't be considered a complete experience and I find that terribly frustrating.

I think there's something being missed here, something that's important to the Q movie experience as a whole.

Look at the reactions to the movie. Look at how much everyone sympathizes with Shinji. I don't remember such overwhelming identification with Shinji in the reactions to NGE and EoE, and the key difference is that this time the audience is allowed to know almost nothing more than Shinji does. The level of identification with Shinji is so profound, some (by which I mean Seele00TextOnly) have decried that there's too much identification with the main character going on.

Q has succeeded in its purpose beyond its wildest dreams, and I think this is possible only because the paucity of information has thrust us so directly into Shinji's shoes.

And we have no reason to worry that the time gap will get explained eventually, even if it's not in the next movie, because judging from history (NGE2, the CRC, etc), Gainax and Khara will not hesitate to cash in on the curiosities of the diehard fans.
Last edited by Monk Ed on Tue May 14, 2013 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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