Thoughts about Mari

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:18 am

Mari is Yui's cousin because there ain't enough incest in Shinji's love quadrants.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:48 am

Guys, let's take this at least semi-seriously, mmkay?

The photo was mentioned in the Spoilers thread. Hard to get a real grasp on this until we can see it ourselves, but...

os189 wrote:As for Mari and Yui appearing together....there is a scene where Shinji and Fuyutski are playing shogi alone together in a dark room. Fuyutski shows Shinji a picture of Gendo and Yui and young Shinji. THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE PHOTO! maybe even kids!! But I didn't catch who they were! Gendo and Yui are in their 20s and Shinji is barely a toddler. It's possible Mari was in that photo too, I suppose!

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Postby Clover » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:58 am

Mari designed the Eva series. I'm officially declaring it.

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Postby Charsi » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:05 am

So by the description there's two (maybe three if Fuyutsuki is in it) adults in the shot, and a swarm of possibly recognizable toddlers?

I gotta say, I think the idea that Mari is "old" (whether it be time travel, early LCL exposure, whatever) kind of works. I mean, the way it kind of works is simply that Mari is too good, knows too much and can do too much for "just a kid". It kind of fits because from what we've seen so far she's a bit of a Mary Sue. Where exactly do kids her age get covert insertion and parachute training anyway?

The theory would run something like this: she's old, piloted a prototype Eva long ago, and the curse has kept her the same age. Maybe Kaji's not her contact... maybe she's his.

Ok so.. perhaps it's possible she's "old" but it requires one of two things:

1. Ditching the unwritten (?) rule that only kids born after 2I can pilot eva*
2. Time travel shenanigans regardless of parentage

The photo by the sounds of it shoots giant holes in #1. #2 really isn't something I want to see, not in Eva, thanks.

* Edited to add: As much as an rule this may or may not be, if it was actually correct, Yui's experiment pretty much punches holes in it already.
Last edited by Charsi on Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby duo_rei » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:30 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Is this picture thing actually confirmed by anyone? Lili didn't mention it to me and I don't recall Ornette commenting on it either.


YES!!
The 1st time the frame with the photo flashed by so fast I barely had a glance at it.... only saw Yui, Fuyutsuki, and Gendoh @[email protected] But after reading spoilers and then going to see it for a 2nd time, I set about looking for her, and Mari (or someone looking exactly like her) was right there in that picture!! (On the bottom right of the photo, with her back half-turned toward the camera so we can't see her full face)
I'm 99% sure that Yui was holding baby Shinji while "Mari" was playing with him, but it could be the other way around.

Oh god I think I'm totally buying Seele00TextOnly's theory now! *____*

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Postby robersora » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:46 am

View Original Postduo_rei wrote:YES!!
with her back half-turned toward the camera so we can't see her full face)


Kinda like this?
SPOILER: Show
Image


Oh, and can we be sure that it was not Ritsuko's mother? If I recall it correctly Ritsu's mom and Yui were close, weren't they?
Oh my god. Mari is Ritsu's mom! (lol)
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Postby Charsi » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:03 am

View Original Postduo_rei wrote:Oh god I think I'm totally buying Seele00TextOnly's theory now! *____*


The theory kind of lives and die by the contents of that photo. Not that I don't believe you but I want to be able to frame by frame that thing for myself. I envy you for being able to see the movie.

If the theory's wrong... imo, Kaji is setting up WILLE with Mari as his go-to pilot.

If the theory's true... Kaji and Mari are working together, most of the "groundwork" idea I posted is imo perfectly viable, BUT it reframes Mari's role entirely. No longer is she simply an eager pilot that Kaji is coaching. She'd be using Kaji as ruthlessly as he thinks he's using her. In a way that's more believable.

If true... Mari might have been planning a splinter organization from within the ranks of NERV/Seele for longer than Kaji. Misato and Kaji are similar in ages - Kaji remarks imply they went to college together in Rebuild continuity - and we know Misato was pretty young when 2I happened in Antarctica.

So to continue the "old Mari" theory, she'd be in her teens shortly after 2I, and be one of the first to gain the Curse of Eva (somehow without being absorbed, unlike every other researcher/scientist?). By my bad math, she'd be the chronological senior to Kaji or Misato.

It also explains why she'd train at Bethany Base rather than NERV, and as suggested, why she'd disable two-way comms. The older staff at NERV would recognize her.
Last edited by Charsi on Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby TheTuna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:15 am

View Original Postduo_rei wrote:YES!!
The 1st time the frame with the photo flashed by so fast I barely had a glance at it.... only saw Yui, Fuyutsuki, and Gendoh @[email protected] But after reading spoilers and then going to see it for a 2nd time, I set about looking for her, and Mari (or someone looking exactly like her) was right there in that picture!! (On the bottom right of the photo, with her back half-turned toward the camera so we can't see her full face)
I'm 99% sure that Yui was holding baby Shinji while "Mari" was playing with him, but it could be the other way around.

Oh god I think I'm totally buying Seele00TextOnly's theory now! *____*


So it's not just a rumor? Wow! I can't wait to see this for myself now.

Here's hoping that if they dropped this hint they're actually going to explain what was up with Mari and Kaji in 4.0.

The only thing against it is that Kaji refers to Mari as a "child" multiple times in 2.22, but it's possible that he simply still considers her a child since she was frozen as a kid by the "curse of Eva", or he could just be keeping up the pretense that she's a kid.

Just remembered that Mari calls them "adults" too. Hmmm. Well, it's still quite possible for that to be a result of the "curse of Eva". We really need to know more about how that works and how the pilots perceive themselves to say.

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Postby Charsi » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:18 am

Kaji might not know.

or he could just be keeping up the pretense that she's a kid.


.. or SHE could just be keeping up the pretense that she's a kid.

Mari might be playing him. It ties into her remark about using "adults" to get what she wants.

Imagine if she is the first to get the Curse of Eva. She bails on NERV. Dissapears, changes name, identity. Shows up years later at a completely different, separate installation...

My problem with this? It makes Mari too perfect. I hate self-insert god characters.
Last edited by Charsi on Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby TheTuna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:19 am

View Original PostCharsi wrote:Kaji might not know. Mari might be playing him. It ties into her remark about using "adults" to get what she wants.


Hmmm, very true! Excellent point. I guess the idea of Kaji not knowing things is rather foreign to me, haha.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:25 am

View Original PostCharsi wrote:Kaji might not know. Mari might be playing him. It ties into her remark about using "adults" to get what she wants.


I agree. On a side note, she might just refer to them as adults because she considers herself young due to having her physical aging stopped by the "curse", and her usage of the term may not relate to her actual age. Mari may have been around since before Kaji, Mitsuko and Ritsuko joined Nerv, so none of them may have heard of her. I'm hoping that we might get more insight into Mari's backstory in 4.0, as none of 3.0 was focussed on her character.
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Postby TheTuna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:59 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:I agree. On a side note, she might just refer to them as adults because she considers herself young due to having her physical aging stopped by the "curse", and her usage of the term may not relate to her actual age. Mari may have been around since before Kaji, Mitsuko and Ritsuko joined Nerv, so none of them may have heard of her. I'm hoping that we might get more insight into Mari's backstory in 4.0, as none of 3.0 was focussed on her character.


That's my main fear, that we'll get more hints dangled but never any actual explanation since events must remain wholly focused on Shinji and Mari's had very little interaction with him.

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Postby Charsi » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:02 pm

Well hell. I just read over in another thread that WILLE's cover story is that they're fixing up the ocean (from red back to blue).

Remember where Kaji took the pilots for their day out? A big ocean recovery project. They needed special passes to get in, and had to go through decontamination.

For Kaji to be able to swing visitor access to a place like that implies he already had some pull in an org that would become WILLE's cover story...
Last edited by Charsi on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:02 pm

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:she considers herself young due to having her physical aging stopped by the "curse", and her usage of the term may not relate to her actual age.

One justification for writing in the time-skip could even be so that Asuka can be affected by the curse as well as Mari, to make it seem slightly less of a Deus ex machina.
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Postby LordEvan88 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:05 pm

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:I agree. On a side note, she might just refer to them as adults because she considers herself young due to having her physical aging stopped by the "curse", and her usage of the term may not relate to her actual age.


Looking back a lot of her lines are open to interpretation. But it would seem that, were she perpetually young, it would be a comment about how naive she has found the adults around her to be about matters she understands.

Of course, if this is true it means Kaji does not fully understand her nature (As her perceives her as a child), and Mari herself would be the person really pulling the strings at WILLE.

Also, I never got the impression that Naoko and Yui were close. If so she might have noticed Rei a lot sooner and perhaps not have reacted so violently to her. I get the impression she observed her from a distance and felt a rivalry with her. I'm going to guess it is Mari, if only because it makes this way more interesting than it probably is.
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Postby TheTuna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:15 pm

I also wouldn't be surprised if they just plain didn't quite know what they wanted to do with Mari as of 2.22, and so some of her lines don't quite mesh up with whatever plan (if any) they developed for her later.

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Postby robersora » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:51 pm

Interesting, what a little picture can make. But yeah, it's starting to make sense now... It's way better than my initial theory anyway.
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Postby TheTuna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:21 pm

I'm seeing some claims circulating that at one point in the audio rip Mari refers to Rei by name, indicating that she knows Rei somehow.

Given that she never encountered Rei in 2.22, that would seem to be strong evidence for Mari having been involved with the Evangelion project for much long than is apparent.

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Postby Eliaskar » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:24 pm

View Original PostTheTuna wrote:I'm seeing some claims circulating that at one point in the audio rip Mari refers to Rei by name, indicating that she knows Rei somehow.

Given that she never encountered Rei in 2.22, that would seem to be strong evidence for Mari having been involved with the Evangelion project for much long than is apparent.

I'm sure someone over 14 years would have told her and shown her who Rei was and what she looked like in photos etc.

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Postby Ramiel² » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:11 pm

The more i think about this theory, the more i like it.

It would help this whole 14 years timeskip plot point SO much.
It would explain maris knowledge, small references and name-calling.

I really hope this holds to be true in some form, with that picture resembling the preview shot ( if thats the case, still no one replied to that if its actually similar), it would even further enhance the possibility that this scene was scrapped as a flashback picture instead of a whole scene.


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