Can the Angels collect memories from their dead siblings?

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Can the Angels collect memories from their dead siblings?

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Postby Replicator » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:11 pm

Could the Angels have some sort of ability to gather the souls (and probably memories) of their dead siblings? This is clearly observed in Armisael, as it tries to grow an "Angel Tower" from EVA Unit-00, which could be seen as it trying to resurrect them. Kaworu/Tabris may have also have had something similar for his version of 3I (that's if there was such a plan in the first place). Ireul and Bardiel and examples where I definitely suspect something like this is possible, because Ireul was essentially 'designed' to act as a virus to infect NERV's computer systems. How it got there is anyone's guess. And Bardiel's sole purpose was apparently to contaminate an Evangelion. It appeared from a thundercloud, and was able to takeover EVA-03. I'm thinking especially with these two if there's a possibility when an Angel is destroyed, the next Angel could inherit its memories, and develop in a way that would be more suited for attacking NERV HQ. When Misato was questioned by SEELE in Episode 17, one of the members said that the Angels seem to be getting smarter, beginning to use a wider array of tactics and abilities.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:26 am

It seems to be the case that when an Angel dies, its soul floats around freely and generally impotently, and the other Angels can at the very least learn from their fallen siblings, but not in a way that indicates communication, or Armisael wouldn't be experiencing loneliness motivating it to revive its siblings. I would speculate that the memories of these souls can be read, but the souls are 'asleep' in death and can't be communed with.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:07 pm

The angel 'evolution' definitely isn't Darwinian, so that could be a substantial piece of evidence to lend to your theory. Of course, since we have no idea where the angels are coming from, we don't know if they observe their comrades or if they just pop into existence with the memory of whatever angels came before them. Memory inheritance? I'd say it's feasible.

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Postby A.T. Fish » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:31 am

AuraTwilight wrote:or Armisael wouldn't be experiencing loneliness motivating it to revive its siblings.


Is that your interpretation of the Angel tower or something actually confirmed to be true?

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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:22 am

View Original PostA.T. Fish wrote:Is that your interpretation of the Angel tower or something actually confirmed to be true?

It's an interpretation that's been around since at least 2006. (I proposed it during my "revelations" period and it's spread around from there, but other folks may have reached it independently.) Nothing is known for certain about all of the weird Eva-00 body horror in episode 23.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:25 am

Reichu wrote:It's an interpretation that's been around since at least 2006. (I proposed it during my "revelations" period and it's spread around from there, but other folks may have reached it independently.) Nothing is known for certain about all of the weird Eva-00 body horror in episode 23.


I've always thought Armisael was kinda like a DNA Angel (hence the double helix formation he originally had) and that he was trying to either clone all of his brothers using the body of unit-00 or become a grotesque combination of all of them. Either way, I never considered he might be doing it to overcome his loneliness, but it certainly is interesting to delve into the analysis of an Angel's intentions.

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Postby Tribblepoo » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:28 pm

I may be remembering something else entirely, but didn't Ritsuko mention something about the angels actively adapting each new form to be better suited to completing their objective?

You must admit, the idea does have a certain appeal, because it really does seem that up until Sandalphon, the attempts seemed to be kind of almost a "testing the defenses" sort of activity, while the rest get progressively closer to the goal, culminating in Tabris who get to Terminal Dogma and (his head anyway) even gets into Lilith's pool.
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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:39 pm

View Original PostA.T. Fish wrote:I've always thought Armisael was kinda like a DNA Angel (hence the double helix formation he originally had) and that he was trying to either clone all of his brothers using the body of unit-00 or become a grotesque combination of all of them.

The problem is that, by all indications, the Angels' forms don't have a genetic base. They start off as humanoids, and morph into something else right before they hatch. As a result, the "data" for the Angels' individualized forms would most likely be obtainable from their souls.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:54 pm

Reichu wrote:The problem is that, by all indications, the Angels' forms don't have a genetic base. They start off as humanoids, and morph into something else right before they hatch. As a result, the "data" for the Angels' individualized forms would most likely be obtainable from their souls.


IIRC Ritsuko says in episode 5 (I think?) that the analysis of Shamshel's remains shows an over 90% similarity in the DNA of angels and humans.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:44 pm

View Original PostA.T. Fish wrote:IIRC Ritsuko says in episode 5 (I think?) that the analysis of Shamshel's remains shows an over 90% similarity in the DNA of angels and humans.

99.89%.

And reinforcing this, Sandalphon confirms that the Angels begin life with a humanoid shape. I.e., they're genetically humanoid, and the forms they choose are most likely determined by A.T. Field voodoo.
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Postby riffraff11235 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:53 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:And reinforcing this, Sandalphon confirms that the Angels begin life with a humanoid shape. I.e., they're genetically humanoid, and the forms they choose are most likely determined by A.T. Field voodoo.

I see it as the Angels somehow being born with a "residual self-image" already present in their minds, which is then manifested in their physical form by their extremely powerful A.T. Fields. In essence, we see the Angels as they "see" themselves.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:32 am

Reichu wrote:99.89%.

And reinforcing this, Sandalphon confirms that the Angels begin life with a humanoid shape. I.e., they're genetically humanoid, and the forms they choose are most likely determined by A.T. Field voodoo.


But still, since they do possess DNA, aren't we supposed to assume their genotype differs from one another? And that being the case it's likely that different genotypes determine different forms. Maybe the 0.11% difference is the "magic" part of their DNA, the one responsible for the fruit of life gene or whatever.

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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:42 am

You'd be lucky if you could account for the physical differences between Adam/Eva-type humanoids (i.e., what the Angels intrinsically are) and Lilin with that 0.11% percentage. Trying to use it to explain the Angels' metamorphosed appearances is just pushing what was already lacking credibility far beyond its limits. Since NGE does have the concept of metaphysical biology (souls, A.T. Fields, etc.), that provides the path of least resistance here.

(By the way, cloning Adam produced beings that lack the Fruit of Life, so the mechanics seem more complicated than there being a "FoL gene".)
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Postby A.T. Fish » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:08 am

Reichu wrote:(By the way, cloning Adam produced beings that lack the Fruit of Life, so the mechanics seem more complicated than there being a "FoL gene".)


Then let's just go with
I wrote:or whatever


Anyway, considering the minimal difference between DNA of humans and angels is not enough to explain their biological dimorphism, I think it's reasonable to assume that metaphysical elements are playing a part here, but not to the extent of completely eliminating the genetic factor.


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