"Curse of Eva"

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed May 29, 2013 12:59 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:As for the superhuman abilities, you can also count the fact that Asuka cracked a glass wall with one punch(although we're not sure it was security glass or not), and Shinji ripped apart the big security ring of his pilot seat in 2.0 when he "dived" into Zeruel's core to try to save Rei...


I love how people keep talking about the ring of his seat when this happened right before he crawled through his entry plug, his Eva, and Zeruel's core to get to Rei. The ring is the least of his noteworthy actions there. :tongue:
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Postby Charsi » Wed May 29, 2013 1:10 pm

It's funny. Asuka can crack the glass with one punch but Shinji bangs on it with two fists and it doesn't budge.

On the topic of Asuka punching glass I wondered whether she had a robotic arm or something. With the eyepatch and plugsuit damage eerily reminiscent of the damage suffered in EoE, I was wondering if one other EoE injury carried over - the splitting of her right arm. Then they replace it with an artificial one and she can punch with fairly incredible force.

I have zero factual basis for this wild idea.

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Postby Jayfive » Wed May 29, 2013 1:23 pm

It could just as easily be a mixture of the fact shes got an extra 14 years of physical training, has a run up, performs a very well executed and focused attack (look at her other arm), is *really* angry and just plain narrative necessity.

Basically I would be wary of reading too much into often than it being means to demonstrate how apocalytically angry Red is without actually beating Shinji to a pulp.

And for the record I think the 'Curse of Eva' is simply continual regeneration in line with what we saw Unit 01 do in the Zeruel battle. I dont think theres any more 'powers' than that. The interesting question is what at stage the 'Curse' kicks in - is it exposure to LCL or electrolized LCL, is it the mind link with the Eva or is it plug depth contanination such as Asuka's Bardiel experience and Mari's use of Beast Mode?

And is it permanent, has Asuka and Mari sacrificed the ability to age to protect the world by being Eva pilots or does it now not matter either way? And finally does this 'curse' apply to Shinji and/or Rei-Q?
Last edited by Jayfive on Wed May 29, 2013 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed May 29, 2013 1:25 pm

View Original PostLonecow12 wrote:I don't think you can rule out Rei Q not being Rei II yet. I mean, it is clear it isn't her body, but her picking up the SDAT, I think is a sign that she is starting to recall her past self.

Same thing happened in the TV series, it is just more subdued this time as they make it clear that new Rei starts off with NO memories of Rei II but just like the TV series it is Shinji is the catalyst that makes her start to remember her other version. It's just taking a lot longer than last time.

Plus the scene of the three original children walking in the sand only works if we think of Rei Q as Rei. One way or another, Rei Q will become Rei 2 or at the very least there will be one Rei by the end of this. And I'm not talking about her soul being in the stupid SDAT.

ReiQ not being Rei Ayanami(at least Rei Ayanami as Shinji and probably everyone in WILLE who knew Rei II) is an essential part of her character development in 3.0 : her questioning who she is, meaning not taking as a fact what Gendo told her, was a turning point for the character that would fell flat if it turns out that she's Rei II or an empty can waiting for Rei II to inhabit it.

View Original PostStikuru wrote:If her age was blocked at 14, maybe the same technology was used or adapted for keeping the Seele members alive.

Gendo said that SEELE changed the shape of their soul to gain immortality and guide mankind, implying that they are in these monolith since millenia.
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Postby Viethra » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:50 pm

In NGE, Unit 01 disregards the Hayflick limit and heals herself too fast when she acquires Zeruel's S2 engine. The Hayflick limit is connect to the concept of Telomeres and the cellular process of aging. Those with "The Curse of Eva" appear to be immortal. Could it be that Asuka and Mari have acquired S2 engines?
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Postby unitM » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:03 pm

Asuka isn't healed and Mari never suffered severe injuries in the first place, but that is certainly something to consider for sure.

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Postby Dancougar82 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:03 pm

I think the whole 'Curse of Eva' thing is just fannish BS. The fact of the matter is that even in other Eva series such as Angelic Days, they don't really physically age that much, however when 3 came out, they did rather retcon one thing that was established in that series. In AG they put down the rule that they loose their ability to sync once they hit the 'ol 1-8. Actually if one does look at her, you can see that Asuka has aged a little. She's a little leaner in the face than she was in 2. It can be explained away all very simply. They age well. You don't worry excessively, or spend a lot of time in the sun, and you will retain your looks for many years. They say that asian women have the gift of really great genes as well, so they are notoriously hard to age. A 28 yr old could easily look 14, just like how off over here, the reverse is true. That's my two bits...
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:09 pm

Asuka literally mentions the Curse of Eva. Rewatch Q.

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Postby Dancougar82 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:31 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Asuka literally mentions the Curse of Eva. Rewatch Q.

Can't watch that which hasn't been released out here yet. Besides, with a series as rife with metaphor as Eva is, you can rarely take what is said at face value.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:54 pm

However, it is very much not fannish BS.

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:28 pm

View Original PostDancougar82 wrote:Can't watch that which hasn't been released out here yet. Besides, with a series as rife with metaphor as Eva is, you can rarely take what is said at face value.


Yeah, no. The show itself is canon by definition. If you're arguing against it you can't help but be wrong.

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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:00 am

Curse of Eva = "It's symbolic~!" :wink:

Similar to the final 2 TV series episodes and EoE, in the New Movies, Shinji needs to realize he can't grow up/fix his mistakes until he lets go of Eva. Of course, that message was/is also towards the audience ("Don't become too attached to Eva or one thing. Move onto the next thing that interests you."--why can't I find the quote source when I need it? Tsurumaki?), depending on what FINAL's themes/lessons are.
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:45 am

^
That was the case for NGE/EoE, but I don't think that the message also applies to NTE: for one Shinji does want to let go the Eva, but he's constantly guilt-tripped into going back to it to save the world (even Kaworu's choice amounted to either go pilot with him or die alone and hated by all in that floating tomb) and the other pilot to whom that message applied even most (Asuka) just see the Eva as a weapon to pilot, ready to damage it and even sacrifice it without any hesitation to accomplish the mission.
That and the fact that their enemy is throwing an army of giant killer bots at their face, and the Evas are the only thing that can hold the line against them, so WILLE really needs them.

Personally, I think that Shin Eva (and NTE as a whole)'s message is more about inter-personal relationship than learning to leave their bubble, especially since the three pilots were getting out of their bubble by themselves pretty fine in 2.0: Shinji was seen hanging out with his friends (symbolized by him taking off his headphones), Rei was opening herself to others and wanting to influence things around here with the dinner party, and Asuka realized that being the Number 1 isn't that important and that complete self-reliance is both impossible and a drag.

Yes circumstances conspired to screw them over hard, but the point remains that they learned their lesson, the one their NGE didn't until EoE, and that the second part of NTE is about what else they have to learn: for Shinji it's not about learning about opening himself to others, but to learn to listen to others and not let his preconception of things and his jumping to conclusions clouds his judgment. For the others it's harder to pinpoint, since Rei is in EVA-01, Rei Q has her own personal quest to deal with, Kaworu is a non-entity and Mari is... Mari.
Maybe the lesson can apply to Asuka too, about learning to talk to others and listen to them instead of letting her anger and jumping to conclusions cloud her judgment.


Finally, didn't Anno himself said in a recent interview in the Tokyo Retrospective that the message he wants to pass in NTE is different than the one in NGE?
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:08 pm

My whole point is 3.0's Curse of Eva isn't just a "fannish idea", it can be applied on several levels (in-story/Shinji, meta/audience) with the New Movies. While Asuka and Mari's Curse of Eva is more about them with Gunbuster Syndrome (they're left behind as everybody else ages), Shinji's personal Curse of Eva indicates his lack of maturity and why he's stuck at 14. His in the moment hotheadedness prevented him from listening to anybody, be it Wille's side or Kaworu, for one thing.

Do you mean this, regarding the Anno interview? He doesn't seem to say anything there about NGE vs NTE. The earlier one Numbers-kun translated doesn't mention NGE vs NTE either. http://forum.evageeks.org/post/761070/Anno-Retrospective-at-the-Tokyo-International-Film-Festival/#761070
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Postby Ray » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:47 pm

Anno, we get it. You hate the vast majority of us and demand we try harder. Can you stop shaming Shinji in universe and out for daring to be himself?

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:02 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:My whole point is 3.0's Curse of Eva isn't just a "fannish idea", it can be applied on several levels (in-story/Shinji, meta/audience) with the New Movies. While Asuka and Mari's Curse of Eva is more about them with Gunbuster Syndrome (they're left behind as everybody else ages), Shinji's personal Curse of Eva indicates his lack of maturity and why he's stuck at 14. His in the moment hotheadedness prevented him from listening to anybody, be it Wille's side or Kaworu, for one thing.

I don't know, I see Shinji being "stuck" at 14 years old more because of some massive conspiracy behind his back rather than any personal fault, I mean, how the hell was he supposed to know that saving Rei would result in "that"?
I agree that his moment of insane stubbornness in Lilith's Chamber that let him not listening was a glaring proof of immaturity (and batshit insanity), but the rest of his decisions thorough Q were fairly rational: seriously, he didn't had any reason to stay in the Wunder, asked to Rei what happened, then to Kaworu, then once learning the truth decided to not touch an Eva ever again (perfectly in tune with what WILLE wanted) and only decided to do it one last time because Kaworu had a plan to not only thwart Gendo's plans, but also repair everything. (that and a good dose of guilt-tripping from Kaworu)
His only fault was ironically to not had been curious enough: not asking more details to Kaworu about what happened 14 years ago (if he started Third Impact, then who stopped it), more details about his plans and the spears, or about what the hell is the deal with Lilith and an Eva implanted where here head was before, or wondering how is it that Kaworu know so more and can walk outside the base without any protection.


View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Do you mean this, regarding the Anno interview? He doesn't seem to say anything there about NGE vs NTE. The earlier one Numbers-kun translated doesn't mention NGE vs NTE either. http://forum.evageeks.org/post/761070/Anno-Retrospective-at-the-Tokyo-International-Film-Festival/#761070

Yes that's the one, in it Anno said that the message he wanted to convey in NGE isn't the one he feels he needs to pass in NTE.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:34 pm

^ I liked reading that old thread because A LOT of people were calling Anno a sell-out & was under the assumption 3.0 was going to be more kickass battles & girls cooking to win Shinji's heart.

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Postby Chuckman » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:47 pm

I am still embittered that 3.0 did not turn out to be sexy space pirate adventures and a prison break movie with rag-tag rebels and such.

Actually I am not bitter for Chuckman has only gladness in his heart, but I do like prison break movies slightly more than surrealist misery porn.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:27 am

^ Im pretty sure there is an episode of bodacious space pirates that has that plot, that and it has a cast made up almost totally of cute lesbians, always a plus.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:34 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I am still embittered that 3.0 did not turn out to be sexy space pirate adventures and a prison break movie with rag-tag rebels and such.

Actually I am not bitter for Chuckman has only gladness in his heart, but I do like prison break movies slightly more than surrealist misery porn.

That's for the spin-off about the time-skip covering all of Mari and Asuka's crazy and sexy adventures during the time-skip: 14 years of war, bantering, Eva and giant robotic turkey stealing and pillow fights, it's gonna be glorious.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger


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