Shinji Character Analysis (2.0/3.0)

[Bagheera]

Aren't image macros verboten these days? I seem to recall them being stripped out of threads in the past.

[Xie]

Bingo. Haven't we all figured out how foolish it is to divine Anno's intentions? Deciding that Q dictates the form of Final may be as wrongheaded as when people said 2.0 would dictate the form of Q. If ya hadn't noticed, Anno likes throwing curveballs.

I don't care about Anno's intentions. If Shinji gets anything other than an execution in 4th it will make no sense. There is no redemption, no hope, no love, no happiness, no peace for Shinji. The only thing that would make sense would be his brutal and swift demise at the hands of his former friends and allies. It would be laughable story telling if this whole affair ended up with him being even remotely happy.

P.S. I find it rather ironic that a lot of the pro-Shinji posters feel the only logical outcome is his immediate execution. While the anti-Shinji crowd weirdly hold out hope for a "good" ending for him.

P.S.S. Im pro-Shinji, for the record.

[Monk Ed]

I don't care about Anno's intentions. If Shinji gets anything other than an execution in 4th it will make no sense. There is no redemption, no hope, no love, no happiness, no peace for Shinji. Anything other than his brutal and swift demise at the hands of his former friends and allies would be ludicrous. It would be laughable story telling if this whole affair ended up with him being even remotely happy.

...I don't even know how to respond to this.

...Maybe it's better not to.

[pwhodges]

the world portrayed in Eva and the people there of, are not worth saving. So yes, you are wrong. Using weapons that run on the souls of butchered mothers and their forsaken children is...frankly unspeakable.

You speak as if you think the story of NGE or NTE is a literal depiction of a possible real world. It is not; it is a metaphor, a fairy tale if you like, from which we can learn if we are prepared to try to understand it - and which (it would seem) goes straight over our heads if we don't make that effort.

[kboyrulez12345]

You speak as if you think the story of NGE or NTE is a literal depiction of a possible real world. It is not; it is a metaphor, a fairy tale if you like, from which we can learn if we are prepared to try to understand it - and which (it would seem) goes straight over our heads if we don't make that effort.

This. People are forgetting the fact that Evangelion is a work of fiction, and it's all just a metaphor about the director's view on life. I really don't understand why people don't see this.

[one-eyed]

This. People are forgetting the fact that Evangelion is a work of fiction, and it's all just a metaphor about the director's view on life. I really don't understand why people don't see this.

I understand that, but I also had an emotional response based on similarity to my life, so I'm sorry if sometimes I become passionate. I admit that I got involved too much, but I'm trying to get rid of. Again, I apologize.

[Bagheera]

I understand that, but I also had an emotional response based on similarity to my life, so I'm sorry if sometimes I become passionate. I admit that I got involved too much, but I'm trying to get rid of. Again, I apologize.

You don't have to apologize. Just realize that it's Anno's story, and that what he's saying might not match up with what we would expect based on events depicted so far. It's not conventional by design. If that doesn't make sense to some viewers, well . . . in the words of Anno, "Too bad!"

[Rei IV]

Who is the person that said that Evangelion is a reflection of the heart or some shit like that? I guess this strongly applies here in regards to many people here and I'm inclined to share similar sentiments in that. I don't know how folks believe things are going to be grim for Shinji, either. EoE pretty much had Shinji crying on top of Asuka with her registering disgust while here instead, Shinji seems to have some sort of "support" system with him walking with Asuka and Rei Q, the former who could've just let him there to rot and die. I say EoE provided somewhat of more bleak outlook, while here Shinii at least has TWO, living, BREATHING, not so broken people by his side. Some folks have already predicted his doom before Final.

[KingXanaduu]

P.S. I find it rather ironic that a lot of the pro-Shinji posters feel the only logical outcome is his immediate execution. While the anti-Shinji crowd weirdly hold out hope for a "good" ending for him.

P.S.S. Im pro-Shinji, for the record.

I'm "Pro-Shinji" as you put it, and I for one think a "good" ending is very possible for him. Does this add irony to that irony?

[Lennik]

I think dividing people into groups of "Pro-Shinji" and "Anti-Shinji" is inherently problematic. I fail to see how constantly pointing out what a victim he is and repeating the fact that he didn't want to hurt anyone as a way to absolve him of all responsibility and whine about how unlucky he is is "Pro-Shinji." It's not. It's just an excuse for him not to grow up and learn from his mistakes. Then there are those who sympathize with him who say that he would be better off never having been born, that there's no hope for him, and that he would be doing everyone a favor if he just killed himself already. That is absolutely not "Pro-Shinji" in any way that I can see.

Then there are those of us who acknowledge that he screwed up, big time, and that he needs to learn from all of this that no, he doesn't have to behave like a mindless automaton following orders, but he does need to learn to not be so stubborn and actually listen to the opinions of others. I consider myself Pro-Shinji because I do feel sorry for him, and I want him to get his act together and become the hero he can be, but that doesn't mean sugarcoating his actions. He made a mistake. He can still make up for it, but it isn't going to be easy.

[Bagheera]

I think dividing people into groups of "Pro-Shinji" and "Anti-Shinji" is inherently problematic. I fail to see how constantly pointing out what a victim he is and repeating the fact that he didn't want to hurt anyone as a way to absolve him of all responsibility and whine about how unlucky he is is "Pro-Shinji." It's not. It's just an excuse for him not to grow up and learn from his mistakes. Then there are those who sympathize with him who say that he would be better off never having been born, that there's no hope for him, and that he would be doing everyone a favor if he just killed himself already. That is absolutely not "Pro-Shinji" in any way that I can see.

Then there are those of us who acknowledge that he screwed up, big time, and that he needs to learn from all of this that no, he doesn't have to behave like a mindless automaton following orders, but he does need to learn to not be so stubborn and actually listen to the opinions of others. I consider myself Pro-Shinji because I do feel sorry for him, and I want him to get his act together and become the hero he can be, but that doesn't mean sugarcoating his actions. He made a mistake. He can still make up for it, but it isn't going to be easy.

This, every word, a thousand times over.

[one-eyed]

I think dividing people into groups of "Pro-Shinji" and "Anti-Shinji" is inherently problematic. I fail to see how constantly pointing out what a victim he is and repeating the fact that he didn't want to hurt anyone as a way to absolve him of all responsibility and whine about how unlucky he is is "Pro-Shinji." It's not. It's just an excuse for him not to grow up and learn from his mistakes. Then there are those who sympathize with him who say that he would be better off never having been born, that there's no hope for him, and that he would be doing everyone a favor if he just killed himself already. That is absolutely not "Pro-Shinji" in any way that I can see.

Then there are those of us who acknowledge that he screwed up, big time, and that he needs to learn from all of this that no, he doesn't have to behave like a mindless automaton following orders, but he does need to learn to not be so stubborn and actually listen to the opinions of others. I consider myself Pro-Shinji because I do feel sorry for him, and I want him to get his act together and become the hero he can be, but that doesn't mean sugarcoating his actions. He made a mistake. He can still make up for it, but it isn't going to be easy.

I see hope in what you say and it is based on small tips and messages that you interpreted of what you saw. I find beautiful have hope, I think right, but I do not think it to be trusted because as you know that the hope you saw does not a trap for the tragedy in 4.0? I will not let my guard down, I think Anno is now rich, famous, successful, and he can do whatever he wants with the characters and if anyone don’t like horror. . . in the words of Anno, "Too bad!"

I know I'm being boring and repetitive. I really do not like to play the role of devil's advocate, but the worst lessons of life that no one wants to learn are: Bad things happen to good people, some mistakes can never be mended, friendships and loves die, villains can win, the misfortunes never walk alone and be careful what you wish that you can get (the latter is more suited to Gendo, since Shinji never succeeded and I doubt will achieve something in life.) And if that's the message? If some people were made to fail despite the intentions? You can deny this possibility?

I really would like to get another opinion, but that's what I think. All I can do is pray, but I really cannot believe it.

[aboose]

There is little to no evidence that Shinji is destined to fail, though. One of the big themes of evangelion is that piloting the eva leads to pain and destruction. The only thing that Shinji has pretty much done in eva is pilot eva, and pretty much all it has brought him is pain. NGE showed us that the one time that Shinji made a decision for himself and acted outside of the eva was the one where he finally learned to love himself. Maybe your interpretation is different, but I don't see that as "bad ending."

[Bagheera]

I know I'm being boring and repetitive.

Yup.

You can deny this possibility?

Easily. You and your cohorts are seeing what you want to see, no matter your protestations to the contrary. In an odd way it's very Shinji-like: if you don't want to see hope in the story you absolutely will not see hope, no matter what anyone else says!

This will not and cannot change until you decide to look at things differently.

[Giji Shinka]

Bagheera
It's useless to talk.........No matter what you say, your words cannot change(And they won't change) their personal thoughts/opinions....

In a strange way, this conversation between Bagheera and one-eyed reminds me of Misato and Shinji. (possibly in 4.0) Where one-eyed is Shinji who doesn't try to find the hope, and Bagheera is Misato who tries to give advice's to Shinji, but he won't listen/accept them. In other words, talking to Shinji won't do anything in Final. Only deeds will work. IMO. (Though, i don't know what kind of deeds will work.....)

Hope has to be presented in front of someone's eyes to believe in that hope. Deeds of course, not words. (At least it's much more effective in that way) Kaworu's words were useless, until he took DSS choker off from Shinji.(Deed)

Repeating: considering that Shinji is much more worse state than one-eyed words won't definitely work on him. Someone has to do the work for him and show the hope. (using deeds.jpg) Only that way Shinji will believe in hope.

[one-eyed]

Bagheera and Giji Shinka: I admit that I'm being annoying and I apologize.

I'll refrain from comment on this subject because I think I'm causing discomfort and I apologize for that. I admit I really cannot be hopeful, but is not worth ruining the hope and mood of others for a view that I myself find it distasteful. I think I absorbed the shock and I'm prepared for the worst or better in 4.0.

[Giji Shinka]

Bagheera and Giji Shinka: I admit that I'm being annoying and I apologize.

I'll refrain from comment on this subject because I think I'm causing discomfort and I apologize for that. I admit I really cannot be hopeful, but is not worth ruining the hope and mood of others for a view that I myself find it distasteful. I think I absorbed the shock and I'm prepared for the worst or better in 4.0.

Nonononnonoo! My comment wasn't anything like: Bagheera is right and that you are wrong, or that you are bad or anything like that.........One way to give you hope for Shinji's future and 4.0, is to watch 4.0.

[Stillborn]

Nonononnonoo! My comment wasn't anything like: Bagheera is right and that you are wrong, or that you are bad or anything like that.........One way to give you hope for Shinji's future and 4.0, is to watch 4.0.

That may be true. But on other hand if Anno is planning downer ending "because fuck you", one-eyed prepares fore the worst already to be less disappointed. That's actually my method as well.

[Giji Shinka]

That may be true. But on other hand if Anno is planning downer ending "because fuck you", one-eyed prepares fore the worst already to be less disappointed. That's actually my method as well.

Yeah.
Shinji most likely is too. It's easy for us to say that there is hope, because we can predict things as a viewer. These things happen to him only once, but we can dig deeper and think. Shinji can't.

[KingXanaduu]

Yeah.
Shinji most likely is too. It's easy for us to say that there is hope, because we can predict things as a viewer. These things happen to him only once, but we can dig deeper and think. Shinji can't.

And what proof do you have of that?

This is one thing I'm really getting tired of hearing (and I mean REALLY TIRED OF IT), that people automatically assume that Shinji is incapable (to the nth degree) of moving on and learning from his mistakes, or people treating his character to the point that it's a crime against the universe for him to become a better person. But no, in order for people to see Shinji as "Shinji", he has to only exist as a complete failure as a human being, whose only purpose is to fuck up and everyone else around him.

At what point in the whole history of Evangelion did people come up with this...this..."label" of Shinji Ikari as a complete waste of a human being?

If Shinji was this label, would he have bothered to reject Instrumentality in the original series? If he was this label, he could have easily said, "I hate myself so much, so let myself be erased by Instrumentality as we all are one." He could've taken the easy way out, but HE DIDN'T. He rejected the cheating path and learned that you can live with your mistakes and pain, which is GROWTH in to a BETTER PERSON!

Yes, he fucked up, and yes he will answer for his actions somehow, but that does not mean he can't learn and move on.

I honestly don't know where this skewed idea of where Shinji exists only as a complete failure came from, but that isn't what he is, and it's getting tiresome.