Seele, Post 3I

[Merkaba]

Having rejected Instrumentality, Shinji (and subsequently Asuka) returns to Earth. Just prior to that, he is told that anyone can return as well, so long as they can imagine themselves in their hearts.

My question to you guys is whether or not you think the prominent members of Seele chose to remain in the Sea of LCL, or if they eventually decided to come back? And if they did come back, would they try and re-initiate 3I in such a way that fit their original plan?

[Sailor Star Dust]

People in the LCL Sea are just disembodied souls after Shinji rejected Instrumentality, so perhaps the Seele members are happy staying that way for all eternity (or however long the soul lasts in NGE-terms).

Even if Seele does return, the means to cause 3I (Adam, Lilith, the Eva units) now exist on a metaphysical form on Earth (Lilith, considering her body is destroyed) or are far off in space (Eva-01) so Seele doesn't have anyway to continue their plans. Humanity is left to survive on their own without intervention from Gods or God-like beings.

If you're wondering does Yui/Rei/Kaworu's words mean "bad" and "good" people can reembody, then probably. I'd assume the brief taste of Instrumentality gave humanity as collective whole the wake up call they needed to get their act together and learn how to get over themselves (eg: possibly Shinji and Asuka), but who knows.

[Merkaba]

As an amoralist, I had no intentions of questioning if only people of certain values could come back.

Regarding them not having the tools necessary to re-initiate it, I agree to an extent. You don't think there's any way they could salvage anything to make it happen? I mean, these men can fragment souls, for goodness sake.

[bobbyfischer's ghost]

Seele would be in la la land so the chances of them coming back seem to be next to nothing. The real question in my mind would be if Gendo would consider coming back.
he did so show some remorse for hurting Shinji in EoE

[Kendrix]

You forget that the point of Instrumentality is all humans complimenting each other, filling in the "need" for others without any actual interaction involved - ie, it probably requires most, if not all of current humanity to work.

If all the stable people leave, there will be even less left to compensate for the shortcommings of the screwed-up ones, so the SEELE dudes are bound to surface sooner or later, probably cursing and fuming that things didn't go their way.

They probably can't initiate another TI without Adam or Lillith, but may have the ressources to escape trial and punishment - tough I quite like the idea of Keel manifesting far away from his little electronic helpers...

[bobbyfischer's ghost]

Yeah I guess it's kind of like a snowball effect .

Keel's already extended his life long enough. :)

[Sailor Star Dust]

If all the stable people leave, there will be even less left to compensate for the shortcommings of the screwed-up ones, so the SEELE dudes are bound to surface sooner or later, probably cursing and fuming that things didn't go their way.

But Instrumentality already long ended when Shinji rejected it, like my previous post said. There's nothing to compensate for, since it's just disembodied souls floating around as LCL.

[Kendrix]

Yeah I guess it's kind of like a snowball effect .

Probably - From the dialogue in either ending, Shinji emerging seems to equal stopping the whole process. Presumably, once one person was out, those who knew and depended that person, those who "needed" them (Hence "I need you") would follow suit, because something they need to be "complete" would be missing in the sea. Or stuff.
And the person who'd "need"(need, not necessarily love) Shinji the most would be Asuka, despite her claims to the contrary.

[Bagheera]

SSD has the right of it. Without a Seed or an Eva Seele has no way to make their plan a reality. They might conceivably use the partially constructed MPEs to tang humanity again, but to what end? There's no way to guide the souls thus liberated and no vessel with which to contain them. There's literally nothing for them to do at this point.

[Merkaba]

Without getting too fan-fic-y (which I imagine would get a "Wrong forum"), what would Seele's next move be if they returned? Would they simply run and hide? Would Gendo track them down? Would they regroup and plot another mass depopulation? And having experienced 3I, would everyone who didn't know about Seele prior now be aware of their role and seek revenge?

Also, at the sake of discussing something that may have appeared in another topic, can the souls of the Evas reembody? Yui is off in space being God and such, yeah, but could Kyoko return and be a fully-restored mother to Asuka?

[Fireand'chutes77]

Without getting too fan-fic-y (which I imagine would get a "Wrong forum"), what would Seele's next move be....? Would they simply run and hide? Would Gendo track them down? Would they regroup and plot another mass depopulation?

Heh. You just got Johnny Cash's cover of "Gonna Cut You Down" playing in my head. ;)

You can run on f'r a long time
Run on f'r a long time
Run on f'r a long time
But sooner or later, gotta cut you down
Sooner or later, gotta cut you down...

Well, you may throw your rock and hide your hand,
Workin' in the dark against your fellow man;
But as sure as God made black and white,
What's done in the dark will be brought to the light!

[Kendrix]

what would Seele's next move be if they returned? Would they simply run and hide? Would Gendo track them down? Would they regroup and plot another mass depopulation? And having experienced 3I, would everyone who didn't know about Seele prior now be aware of their role and seek revenge?

As mentioned before, they can't really do much instrumentality-y things without Lillith or adam or the LOL that Yui wisely took with her, so no further depopulation plans, unless it involves the old fashioned way which wouldn't really benefit them - presumably, they would go into hiding to avoid trials or pop a cyanide pill. It would suit NGEs general cynicism about establishments/organisations for them to wind their way out of it...

But there's no real way to them to continue their plans, Shinji and Rei pretty much thwarted them.

As for Gendo, his plans are as thwarted as theirs, but depending on the state of the infrastructure and the speed at which civilisation will reconstruct, they either have much more ressources than he has or he will have as little as anyone else, so if anything, he's the one who will have to hide from them.
He wouldn't really gain anything from hunting them down and his dislike of them was more ideological than personal.

[Bagheera]

Also, at the sake of discussing something that may have appeared in another topic, can the souls of the Evas reembody? Yui is off in space being God and such, yeah, but could Kyoko return and be a fully-restored mother to Asuka?

We can't even agree on the current disposition of Kyoko's soul, so it's impossible to speculate meaningfully. If she has a partial soul coming back is probably out of the question. If her soul is complete but divided, again, probably not (hard to have a strong sense of identity when you're effectively schizophrenic/MPD). If by some miracle her soul was completely restored then sure, why not?

As for the soul in Unit 03 and the ones in the MPEs, they'd be just like any other human. If their experiences in Eva haven't driven them mad they should have no more trouble coming back than anyone else.

[Blue Monday]

Some talk of Gendo returning in this thread. Worth bringing up that a lot believe that he couldn't return as, you know, he never made it to Instrumentality to begin with:



There was some good discussion recently but I can't recall which thread exactly that was in... There are heaps of relevant ones though when searched.

[Bagheera]

He couldn't fail to make it to Instrumentality. Lilith's Anti-ATF encompassed the world, and that would necessarily include him. The fact that Rei and Yui saw fit to execute him beforehand is immaterial; he would get scooped up with all the rest, just like Misato and Ritsuko and everyone else who died messily.

We also see him in EoTV, so there's that as well.

[Blue Monday]

The difference between Gendo and what happened with Misato and Ritsu is that they weren't rejected by Yui/Rei-Lilith. They just got plain ol' killed. I see that "execution" as exactly that, a rejection before Instrumentality has even begun.

We also see him in EoTV, so there's that as well.

True. As a subscriber of Concurrency, I won't hand-wave that. I shouldn't be saying Gendo didn't make it to Instrumentality, as he's shown participating in one depiction (EOTV) but I firmly believe he won't return post-3I. I feel the same for characters like Misato as well. Ones who had their 'final farewell' of sorts when dying. Others will think otherwise though.

[Bagheera]

The difference between Gendo and what happened with Misato and Ritsu is that they weren't rejected by Yui/Rei-Lilith. They just got plain ol' killed. I see that "execution" as exactly that, a rejection before Instrumentality has even begun.

You're acting like it's optional. They can reject him all they like, but his soul will still be liberated from his body and he'll still be floating around like everyone else when all is said and done. It's possible that in the EoE version he doesn't get mashed into Instrumentality, but . . . so?

True. As a subscriber of Concurrency, I won't hand-wave that. I shouldn't be saying Gendo didn't make it to Instrumentality, as he's shown participating in one depiction (EOTV) but I firmly believe he won't return post-3I. I feel the same for characters like Misato as well. Ones who had their 'final farewell' of sorts when dying. Others will think otherwise though.

I doubt Gendo would come back, but I can't see any reason Misato wouldn't. The kids need her after all.

[Stryker]

I doubt Gendo would come back, but I can't see any reason Misato wouldn't. The kids need her after all.

I'm not sure about that. Wasn't there a point in the series where she feels that she "failed" (or of the sort) the kids in raising, parenting, or guiding them. If so, I don't know if she would be the type that'd be willing to face them after feeling that she done so.

Or perhaps she'd be willing to take the chance at redemption, and make up for that failure. I don't know.

[Bagheera]

I'm not sure about that. Wasn't there a point in the series where she feels that she "failed" (or of the sort) the kids in raising, parenting, or guiding them. If so, I don't know if she would be the type that'd be willing to face them after feeling that she done so.

Or perhaps she'd be willing to take the chance at redemption, and make up for that failure. I don't know.

Yeah, that. The fact she failed miserably is why she'd come back -- guilt would push her to try to make it right. It helps that, unlike Gendo, her self-hatred doesn't make her a non-functional douchebag; she's able to set it aside and focus on what needs to be done. That practical side of her character matters quite a bit IMO.

[bobbyfischer's ghost]

I'm not sure about that. Wasn't there a point in the series where she feels that she "failed" (or of the sort) the kids in raising, parenting, or guiding them. If so, I don't know if she would be the type that'd be willing to face them after feeling that she done so.

It feels like that would be true in the TV series but not so much in EoE.