Asuka's name order

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Asuka's name order

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:56 pm

Could someone explain me what's up with Asuka's name order in the English media/fandom? Asuka's name in NGE is 惣流・アスカ・ラングレー while in NME her name is 式波・アスカ・ラングレー, they only changed her Japanese surname, yet quite counter-intuitively we have Asuka Langley Soryu in NGE and Asuka Shikinami Langley in NME. So, ahem, what is the correct westernisation of Asuka's name?
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Postby Reichu » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:39 pm

The Roman print equivalent of 惣流・アスカ・ラングレー in Japan has always been Soryu Asuka Langley. This obviously isn't a proper way of rendering her name for Anglosphere purposes -- and is downright nonsensical when it's appearing right alongside Western Name Order versions of the other cast -- -- so translators and fans corrected it by putting the "Soryu" on the end, hence "Asuka Langley Soryu".

As for Shikinami, it has been rendered in the order "Asuka Shikinami Langley" by khara's own J-to-E translator Dan Kanemitsu. He similarly opted for "Mari Makinami Illustrious". (I think the former has only appeared in the CRC book, while the latter showed up in the actual movie.) It's not what we expected, but it's official, so...
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby JoeD80 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:31 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:so translators and fans corrected it by putting the "Soryu" on the end, hence "Asuka Langley Soryu".

Pretty sure that's also how Asuka writes it on the chalkboard at the end of episode 8.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:34 pm

^
^
I see, thanks for your reply.
View Original PostReichu wrote:It's not what we expected, but it's official, so...

It's the other way around for me, Dynamic Italia back in the days ended up using the same name order that Khara picked for NME; honestly I never made a lot of sense out of this thing because I'm not familiar with double surnames, actually I suppose that they're not used in the United States or am I wrong?
View Original PostJoeD80 wrote:Pretty sure that's also how Asuka writes it on the chalkboard at the end of episode 8.

Nope, it's just the transcription of Soryu Asuka Langley without any order change.
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Postby Der Kommissar » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:22 pm

Double surnames aren't common here in the U.S., but they are used. You'll usually see them rendered with a hypen, though...at least, in my experience. Asuka'd be Asuka Langley-Soryu.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:30 pm

^
Thanks, just out of curiosity, is it possible for a child to take both parents' surnames? Wikipedia only mentions the case of women taking husbands' surnames. Anyway an hyphenated surname would have solved Asuka's awkward half Japanese, half western name order, it goes without saying that they probably didn't even consider if they're used or not in the States and they only wanted to accentuate the hafu effect...
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Postby riffraff11235 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:37 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:^
Thanks, just out of curiosity, is it possible for a child to take both parents' surnames? Wikipedia only mentions the case of women taking husbands' surnames. Anyway an hyphenated surname would have solved Asuka's awkward half Japanese, half western name order, it goes without saying that they probably didn't even consider if they're used or not in the States and they only wanted to accentuate the hafu effect...


As a matter of fact, it is. I have a friend - who coincidentally is Japanese - who signs with both his parents' surnames.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:50 pm

View Original Postriffraff11235 wrote:As a matter of fact, it is. I have a friend - who coincidentally is Japanese - who signs with both his parents' surnames.

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity; it's a little weird that wikipedia isn't really exhaustive on this matter, it could be because in general Common Law countries tend to be more flexible on these matters, I read in the name changing page that some states like New York allow married couples to adopt hyphenated surnames, combinations of their surnames or even a completely new surname.
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Hyphenated Names... so easily confused. B/

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Postby Alaska Slim » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:05 am

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:^
Thanks, just out of curiosity, is it possible for a child to take both parents' surnames?

I have my own mother's maiden name for a middle name, and this is something that's especially common among Hispanic cultures.
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Postby AR-99 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:05 am

In some instances where the parents aren't married the child may use both parents' surnames in a hyphenated version, as mentioned above. Married women may also retain their maiden name along with the husband's surname, again in a hyphenated version.
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Postby driftking18594 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:21 pm

Asuka/Shinji shippers would have a nightmare naming their kids if they were writing a fanfic...

"OK, should I name her Yuko Langley Soryu Ikari or Yuko Ikari Langley Soryu?!"

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:25 pm

View Original Postdriftking18594 wrote:"OK, should I name her Yuko Langley Soryu Ikari or Yuko Ikari Langley Soryu?!"

It seems that only one (the first? It would make Asuka Soryu Langley more sensed) of the two surnames is taken by the kids, Asuka didn't take the Zeppelin surname of her mother.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:33 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:The Roman print equivalent of 惣流・アスカ・ラングレー in Japan has always been Soryu Asuka Langley. This obviously isn't a proper way of rendering her name for Anglosphere purposes -- and is downright nonsensical when it's appearing right alongside Western Name Order versions of the other cast -- -- so translators and fans corrected it by putting the "Soryu" on the end, hence "Asuka Langley Soryu".

As for Shikinami, it has been rendered in the order "Asuka Shikinami Langley" by khara's own J-to-E translator Dan Kanemitsu. He similarly opted for "Mari Makinami Illustrious". (I think the former has only appeared in the CRC book, while the latter showed up in the actual movie.) It's not what we expected, but it's official, so...


He can render it how he likes, but as I recall the actual names for each are Shikinami Asuka Langley and Makinami Mari Illustrious, which means that for Japanese purposes the surnames are Shikinami and Makinami and the given names are Asuka and Mari. "Correct" English renderings are thus Asuka Langley Shikinami and Mari Illustrious Makinami, the efforts of Khara's J-to-E translator be damned. Official or not it's still wrong.

As for hyphenated names: in Latino cultures the father's first surname is typically first, while the mother's first surname is typically second. So, if Ruben Francisco-Gonzalez and Domina Ramirez-Hernandez had a child named Pedro his full name would be Pedro Francisco-Ramirez (Americans often have trouble grasping this simple naming convention, so they will insist on making one of the names a middle name or, even worse, on mashing the two names together somehow. It can get to be quite comical at times). Neither Anglo cultures nor Japan seem to have a formal convention for handling this, though, so if they want to include surnames from both parents they're essentially winging it. In the case of both Asukas it's pretty clear that Langley was taken as a middle name, and not as any sort of surname. The Japanese rendering in both cases makes this clear.
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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:43 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:
As for hyphenated names: in Latino cultures the father's first surname is typically first, while the mother's first surname is typically second.


Are you sure? Here in Portugal the father´s last surname comes last and the mother´s last surname comes in first.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:45 pm

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:Are you sure? Here in Portugal the father´s last surname comes last and the mother´s last surname comes in first.


I was describing the typical case. Not saying it's universal by any means (and yes, I'm sure; that's what I see every day when dealing with people from Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Colombia, and so on).
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Postby JoeD80 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:18 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:He can render it how he likes, but as I recall the actual names for each are Shikinami Asuka Langley and Makinami Mari Illustrious

The Q-preview at the end of 2.0 uses Mari Makinami Illustrious.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:26 pm

View Original PostJoeD80 wrote:The Q-preview at the end of 2.0 uses Mari Makinami Illustrious.

It's been mentioned before, it's the official westernisation provided by Khara; it's a Japanese custom to use western name order when they write in Romaji, Asuka's case in NGE was just weird, everyone else received a normal western order.
Last edited by Hyper Shinchan on Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:33 pm

View Original PostJoeD80 wrote:The Q-preview at the end of 2.0 uses Mari Makinami Illustrious.


As I said, they can render it how they like but that doesn't make it correct. The Japanese for those names is what it is, and Khara's insistence that they say something they don't doesn't change that. If they wanted those characters to have non-Japanese surnames they should have named them accordingly -- since they didn't (and since the show hews exactly to Japanese convention in all other respects) their official translations amount to exactly nothing.

Asuka is 式波・アスカ・ラングレー. Mari is 真希波・マリ・イラストリアス. There's exactly one way to rationally render each name in English, and the official Khara translations aren't it.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby JoeD80 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:52 pm

Wasn't talking about how it should be done. It's the official translation, so that's what we're stuck with.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:06 pm

View Original PostJoeD80 wrote:Wasn't talking about how it should be done. It's the official translation, so that's what we're stuck with.


But the question wasn't "what is the official translation?" but rather "what is the correct Westernization?". That is the question I was addressing.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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