Ikuni and Anno

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Ikuni and Anno

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Postby 1731298478 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:09 am

This is an excerpt, I believe, from this book that was posted on 2ch some months ago. It was posted on this blog as well.

小黒 作品とファンの関係が、ですね。

Oguro: The relation between the fan and the work.

庵野 そうそう。で、本当の綾波レイには会えないけど、その代償行為として、その声をあててる声優さんには会う事はできるから、イベントに行ったりね。あるいは、その画を描いてる貞本義行にサインをもらったりする。

Anno: Right, right. So, they can't meet the real Rei Ayanami, but because, as an act of compensation, they can meet the voice actress who does her voice, they go to events [where she appears]. Or, they get that picture signed by Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, the man who drew it.

小黒 本当の綾波レイの代わりに。

Oguro: As a substitute for the real Rei Ayanami.

庵野 アニメのキャラクター商品が売れるのは、そのキャラクターに接近する方法がそれしかないからだと思うんですよね。綾波レイのポスターを壁に貼ることでしか、彼女に対する愛情表現ができないわけなんですよ。だからキャラクター商品がそこで売れるわけでね。

Anno: I believe that anime character merchandise sells well simply because it is a means of getting close to the character. You can't express your love for Rei Ayanami except by putting her poster up on your wall. So, character merchandise sells well because of that.

小黒 愛情表現ですか。

Oguro: Express your love?

庵野 その辺が作り事だっていうことは、みんな、分かってるんだけど、逆にそれだからこそピュアな感じかして、よりのめりこみ度数高くなるんですけどね。アニメのキャラクターは基本的には裏切らないと思い込んでいるですよ。幾ちゃんが言ってたけど「最終回で、綾波レイが妊娠して、腹がデカくなっているというのをやってくださいよ!」って。「とにかく綾波ファンを裏切ってくれ」ってね。「君達が考えている綾波レイというのは、本物じゃないんだ。本当の綾波レイは、ちゃんと妊娠して腹が」。

Anno: Everyone understands that it's a fiction, but precisely because it's a fiction you have a pure feeling, you fall for the character to an even greater extent. You assume that an anime character will not betray you. Iku-chan said [to me], "in the last episode, please have Rei Ayanami get married and become pregnant. Just please betray the Ayanami fans. The Rei Ayanami they are thinking of is not real. The real Rei Ayanami gets married, and her belly..."

小黒 (笑)。あ、ホントに綾波がいたら。

Oguro: (laughs) Ah, if Ayanami really existed.

庵野 「ホントだったら、妊娠して腹がデカくなって子供産んだりして、年を取ったりするんだっていうのを思い知らせてやってくれ」みたいな事を言われて。俺は「そこまでせんでも……」と思ったんですけど(笑)。

Anno: He told me something like, "please, make them realize that, If she were real, she would get married, become pregnant, have a child, and grow older." I was thinking, "we don't have to go that far..." (laughs).

小黒 (笑)。幾ちゃんの方が悪人ですね。

Oguro: (laughs) Iku-chan is a wicked man.


Ikuhara has a kind of interview in the book on Kaworu that was published a few years ago. The reason is that Ikuhara is universally believed by Japanese fans to have been an inspiration for Kaworu (it's stated, for example, on both Kaworu's and Ikuhara's wikipedia pages), and the bath scene between Shinji and Kaworu is thought to have been based on a conversation Anno and Ikuhara had at a hot spring.

There are pictures of the book here. There are also pictures here, including a small scan of the interview.

The title of Ikuhara's interview is "「そのままの君でいいよ」という魔力", "The magic of 'you're fine just the way you are.'" This is the only excerpt I could find from it (taken from here):

僕は14、15歳の時には、本当に絶望していて人生真っ暗だと思っていたんだよ。(中略)今はさ、負け組のほうにも注目が集まっているというか、ダメになる自由もあるという感じがするけど、そのころは一回でも負けたらその先は闇でしかないように感じられた。70年代まで安保闘争があったわけだけど、それも終わって「ああ、やっぱり世界を革命するなんてことはできないんだな」って空気が蔓延してたんだ。だから自分は20歳までには死ぬんだろうと思っていたし、それ以降の人生なんてオマケみたいなものだって思っている――そんな話を(庵野秀明監督と)したんだ。

When I was fourteen or fifteen, I was truly in despair, thinking my life prospects were very bleak. [...] Today it seems like even failures recieve attention, or that there is freedom to be "dame," but at that time it seemed that you would have no future after failing even once. Up until the 70s there was conflict over the U.S.-Japan security treaty, but when that finished, an atmosphere like "ah, as we suspected, we can't revolutionize the world" [began to] spread. So, I thought that I would die by the time I was 20, and I felt that any life beyond that would be something like a bonus - that's what I told [Anno].

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Postby Azathoth » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:50 am

Thanks for translating this - remarkable to hear Anno call him "Iku-chan", I wasn't aware they were ever really familiar besides that one interview where they discuss Aum (and the rumored hot-spring conversation that inspired NGE ep24, which I couldn't believe was true when I heard it on /a/). That opinion on Rei is so very Ikuni. I kind of wish he would remake Eva, and Anno would create a bizarre melodrama series about penguins... :lol:

Also, is Ikuhara implying in the interview snippet that he and Anno were friends when Ikuhara was 14/15 (and Anno would have been twentysomething, I guess?) or is he just saying that he, at some later date (the hot spring trip?) told Anno about his past teen angst?
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Postby SaltyJoe » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:50 am

(...)"in the last episode, please have Rei Ayanami get married and become pregnant. Just please betray the Ayanami fans. The Rei Ayanami they are thinking of is not real. The real Rei Ayanami gets married, and her belly..."(...)


(...)"please, make them realize that, If she were real, she would get married, become pregnant, have a child, and grow older."(...)

Oh man, this guy has it in for deranged otaku even more than Anno does.

I guess "my perfect pure 2D waifu" was a prevalent phenomenon even back in '95. Oh what am i saying, obsessing over fictional characters has been a known thing since.. forever, really.

Up until the 70s there was conflict over the U.S.-Japan security treaty, but when that finished, an atmosphere like "ah, as we suspected, we can't revolutionize the world"

How familiar. It seems more obvious than ever that the Dios/Akio tandem is the closest thing Utena has to a self-insert.

As for fans thinking about Ikuhara as a basis for Kaworu: well, that's new, but he is pretty fabolous, like Nagisa-kun.

Thanks a bunch for the translations. This stuff is gold.
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Postby 1731298478 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:41 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Also, is Ikuhara implying in the interview snippet that he and Anno were friends when Ikuhara was 14/15 (and Anno would have been twentysomething, I guess?) or is he just saying that he, at some later date (the hot spring trip?) told Anno about his past teen angst?

The latter, I believe.

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Postby Chrad » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:15 am

Thanks for this. Very, very Ikuni.

Anno took things a step further in screwing with the Ayanami-otaku with her transformation into a horrifying alien goddess in EoE, but there's something hilarious about the more real-world relatable idea that Ikuhara suggests.

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Postby Xard » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:11 am

First of all this is all kindis of awewome! Hell yeah!

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:Anno: I believe that anime character merchandise sells well simply because it is a means of getting close to the character. You can't express your love for Rei Ayanami except by putting her poster up on your wall. So, character merchandise sells well because of that.


uhhhhh I admit nothing. Shut up, Anno :uhh:


Iku-chan said [to me], "in the last episode, please have Rei Ayanami get married and become pregnant. Just please betray the Ayanami fans. The Rei Ayanami they are thinking of is not real. The real Rei Ayanami gets married, and her belly..."


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

IKUNIIIIIIIIIIIIII

honestly, this guy is the troll in the industry. Anno doesn't even compare. :lol:

as for Akio in Utena, I think it's pretty commonly agreed thing among fans that Akio is Ikuni's own shadow or ID or however you want to put it. It's not very difficult thing to derive from some other interviews though it's not like he ever claims that.

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:Ikuhara has a kind of interview in the book on Kaworu that was published a few years ago. The reason is that Ikuhara is universally believed by Japanese fans to have been an inspiration for Kaworu (it's stated, for example, on both Kaworu's and Ikuhara's wikipedia pages), and the bath scene between Shinji and Kaworu is thought to have been based on a conversation Anno and Ikuhara had at a hot spring.


this is really interesting and completely plausible.

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Also, is Ikuhara implying in the interview snippet that he and Anno were friends when Ikuhara was 14/15 (and Anno would have been twentysomething, I guess?) or is he just saying that he, at some later date (the hot spring trip?) told Anno about his past teen angst?


the latter because Ikuni and Anno don't come from same school, city or anything.

Anyway, I'm surprised you didn't know Anno and Ikuhara have been bros for life for decades. IIRC one character in Eva was partly named like he/she was in order to lure Ikuhara work on the project but he didn't succeed.

Personally I was a bit more surprised when Anno called Kawamori Sho-chan in one of the Rebuild interviews and it became clear they were pals. Well, I guess this shouldn't have surprised me that much...

>yfw all your favourite animu industry insiders are pals IRL and drink erryday together in some Shinjuku bar

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Postby soul.assassin » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:43 am

^
No doubt about it, it's a boys' club, and maybe even Miyazaki gets pulled in once in a while. :rofl:

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Postby Xard » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:52 am

View Original Postsoul.assassin wrote:^
No doubt about it, it's a boys' club, and maybe even Miyazaki gets pulled in once in a while. :rofl:


oh, Miyazaki and Anno are friends too. Nothing new about that. So are Mamoru Oshii and Miyazaki.

Don't know about Anno and Oshii tbh

Satoshi Kon was very close to Katsuhiro Otomo and his pupil.


Anno's ragtag band of friends outside old GAINAXers include at least Ikuhara, Kawamori and Izubuchi.

Screenwriter Dai Sato and Yoko Kanno are friends.

etc. etc.

it's a small industry after all

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:41 am

View Original PostXard wrote:IIRC one character in Eva was partly named like he/she was in order to lure Ikuhara work on the project but he didn't succeed.
That was Rei (who was named after Ikuhara's friend Ray Hino).
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Postby Xard » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:05 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:That was Rei (who was named after Ikuhara's friend Ray Hino).


ah right! That was it

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Postby Seen » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:09 am

I wonder what it would have been like if Ikuhara worked on Evangelion.
Utena figures out why the duelists are dueling but what the hell kind of answers does she get? "Because I want to find the power of miracles, I'm going to chop bitches with a sword so I can get a creepy aspie girlfriend who waters roses and shit. which will grant me the power of miracles. I KNOW THIS GODDAMNIT DON'T ASK HOW" -Azathoth

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Postby Xard » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:31 am

View Original PostSeen wrote:I wonder what it would have been like if Ikuhara worked on Evangelion.


Ep 24 would've got a lot gayer at least

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Postby gwern » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:48 pm

Nifty. Reminds me of the _Animeland_ interview:

`HA:` Of course, it's the same formula which made "Idols" just as popular. They are not really humans, they are only a sketch on a piece of paper, incapable of doing anything really, and [they are] out of the reach of their fans. For example, when a boy makes love with a woman in an anime, it is only part of a scenario, it is nothing more, and the fan knows, he steps back from what he sees.

`AL:` Yet, there are some fans that no longer go out with real girls...

`HA:` It is true that some fans of animation display unfortunate behavior.


Kaworu stuff is interesting; the book is from October 2008 if I understand the post right. Too bad those Japanese fans never cite their sources? (Well, they'd be no worse than English fans, I suppose.) Ikuhara's comments about revolutionizing reminds me of Anno's own comments about the student movements failing...

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Thanks for translating this - remarkable to hear Anno call him "Iku-chan", I wasn't aware they were ever really familiar besides that one interview where they discuss Aum


Anno calls a fair number of people -chan. Shoji Kawamura, Shinji Higuchi, just in the 2.0 CRC.

Incidentally Numbers-kun, what does Ikuhara mean by 'or that there is freedom to be "dame,"'?

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Postby 1731298478 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:07 am

View Original Postgwern wrote:Incidentally Numbers-kun, what does Ikuhara mean by 'or that there is freedom to be "dame,"'?

He means that now it is more possible for young people to live their lives being "dame," or useless, or "losers." For example, being hikikomori or NEET would probably not have been tolerated in Ikuhara's time the way it is tolerated today. In the 90s a group called "dame-ren" (assocation of dame people) was founded in order to advocate being dame. I think Evangelion also contributed to this trend, since it had a "dame" protagonist. Nowadays people may well self-identify as dame, as a form of protest or for some other reason, whereas when Ikuhara was young, to be dame was simply the end of the world.

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Postby gwern » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:28 pm

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:The title of Ikuhara's interview is "「そのままの君でいいよ」という魔力", "The magic of 'you're fine just the way you are.'" This is the only excerpt I could find from it (taken from here):


Full translation: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/548445/Ikuhara-on-Kaworu/#548445


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