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Re: Fallout

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Postby IronEvangelion » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:14 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Why is there no effective cover system in a modern game full of gunplay and stealth?
Actually there is. Bethesda just thought it would be cute to make it so that the enemies are the only ones who can use it. I agree with a lot of the questions you're asking. Fallout 4 to me feels like they just did a graphics overhaul of Fallout 3 and slapped a couple mods on it, then called it a new game. Definitely not the next-gen Fallout experience I was expecting. I haven't even touched the game since early December despite not having finished the story.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby Sachi » Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:59 am

Personally, I've been greatly satisfied with the game. Maybe I had the benefit of going in with my only expectation being a prettier new Fallout game, and so I ended up getting much more than what I wanted. The combat system is much better. The skills/perks took getting used to, but ultimately I'm in love with the new system. The crafting/modding/settlement building is a lot of fun, and gives me a reason to pick up the random junk (and as NemZ was saying, now there's almost too much incentive to pick up everything and inventory management becomes that much more difficult, but in a good way, IMO). Overall, I'm very happy with the game, but maybe I'm too easily impressed by these sorts of things.

I'm currently level 34, and I still have only done the first main quest mission, lol. I should probably advance a few missions soon though, just to get to the main BoS group. I've been having so much fun with all the side stuff though, particularly companion quests (I've gone through Codsworth, Piper, and Preston so far. Currently traveling with Curie). I maxed out my settlement at the Drive-in, and so I've begun frontiering toward the southern part of the map, and made a home out of Jamaica Plains. I haven't built a lot yet, but I have a lot visualized, and I hope to create a more organized structure than my last settlement.

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Just met the BoS and I'm deeply torn... they are clearly jerkasses who would flip their shit if they know I had a fortress with laser turrets and half a dozen nearly complete power armor suits just laying around, or what they'd do to my farming robo slaves over at greygarden, but at the same time I so badly want to get my hands on their neat stuff.

I'd figure Ritsuko would have an uneasy alliance with the BoS, given that it's sort of a paramilitary organization just like Nerv and she would fit in well there. Plus there's one mission in particular with them that would parallel nicely with her character:
SPOILER: Show
liberty prime. Ritsuko builds a giant robot for the BoS instead of an Eva for Nerv, get it? :P


Then again, Ritsuko would probably be more naturally at home with the Institute, if that's what you're going for.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby NemZ » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:29 am

Institute is where she's almost certainly going to end up, yes... but it would be thematic for her to end up trying to suicide by nuke and taking the whole place with her. If being a scribe was actually a possibility BoS would be viable long-term, but it's clear the game expects you to just be a power armor grunt on that path and that isn't really for her. I do that, yes, but only because the game practically makes you fight everything... she'd much rather just stay home and tinker, letting others go fetch supplies and keep the wildlife in check. BoS feels like a 'good enough for now' choice though, as I'm about fed up with the MinutemAn and all the rando farmers he wants me to help.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby Monk Ed » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:06 am

My Fallout 4 playthrough has really, really not gone the way I wanted.

Presumably late-game  SPOILER: Show
I'm at the point in the game where I can no longer keep playing ball with all the different factions. Either I follow my son's wishes and become the new head of the Institute and betray the Brotherhood, or I inform the Brotherhood and betray my son.

My problem is that I'm really dissatisfied with the narrative that has evolved for my playthrough because of all the twists and turns I didn't see coming. I decided early on to have my character Knives be doing everything for his son because it felt appropriate to the game and it seemed as good a justification as any to seek out the most powerful organization around and climb its ranks.

That vision received an extreme curveball when, at what I assume to be about mid-game, it was revealed that Shaun had become the leader of the Institute -- the very organization my character had joined the Brotherhood to destroy. Not knowing where things would go, I decided to stick to my "It's really all for my son, you see" angle and serve the Institute's interests. I thought they would wind up representing Knives's ultimate interests anyway -- the redefinition of humanity, an impression which was bolstered by the name of a certain quest, "Mankind Redefined" (which instead turned out to not even touch on the subject of the future of humanity).

And now tonight I've received another curveball: My character's son is dying of cancer. Well, shit. If I'd known that ahead of time (because I would have already played through the game once as Vash like usual and gotten the lay of the land to plot out a course for a Knives playthrough), I might well have given Knives a different motivation entirely, because he is getting to be just way too sympathetic and human a character if he has to go through the pain of losing a son he actually loved (and how could he not have loved him, having been doing everything for him). In many respects, I wonder if giving him a motivation that would have driven him to the Brotherhood for the sake of their ideals would have made for a story more true to his character, because their "cleansing the wasteland of filth" shtick seems very well in line with his "I kill the spiders to save the butterflies" mantra.

But really, none of my potential options feels right. This whole game is just so different in its outlook from the Fallouts I grew up with, which reveled in far more black-and-white morality and gave you fun ways to be just a really evil, evil bastard. Unlike games whose "moral gameplay" is uninteresting because it's black-and-white, Fallout's black-and-white morality is directly relevant to its theme and setting: Although there is plenty of room for moral ambiguity as well (in the form of difficult choices between doing what's "right" and doing what ensures survival), any good wasteland story is as much about how the breakdown of society unleashes our Beasts. My Knives has always been that other side of the coin.

But in Fallout 4, that side of the coin is just... missing. Instead it's been replaced with difficult choices that are difficult not because the "good" choice is hard or risky (or because the "bad" choice is so tempting), but because it's hard to say what the "good" choice is... and it always presumes that your character is acting with the best of intentions, struggling between opposing ideals.

My Knives just wants to kill shit. (I mean it's not actually that simple, but the fun in dressing it up is because that's still what it ultimately boils down to.)

I think the way I'm going to proceed is to just continue my current playthrough with the character motivation I already set for myself and hope that the Institute turns out to be exactly the kind of patriarchal knowier-than-thou bastards they've seemed so far. I'm not as attached to the Institute as a player but I had Knives join the Brotherhood under false pretenses in the first place and I expect that, whoever he sides with now, the game will assume it represents true loyalty.

I might as well just continue the way I was going because for all I know another curveball will come along that will make my earlier vision possible after all. (Someone I talked to after that board meeting did say I was going to be the one setting policy and vision, after all, so maybe I can turn the organization into appropriately genocidal maniacs.)


Positive update:

same  SPOILER: Show
Tonight I received my first opportunity to be exactly the kind of asshole I wanted my Knives to be from the beginning. You know the part where those two dissenters within the Institute hole up in the Bioscience division trying to starve out the rest of the Institute on the demand that you resign as director? I sweet-talked them out of their ploy... then ordered them executed.

I am happy with my decision to side with the Institute.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby IronEvangelion » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:38 pm

Get ready for DLC. FO4's first expansion will be announced 'soon'.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallou ... n=homepage

Hopefully it will take place in a far more interesting location. Not like that would be hard to accomplish or anything.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby Tankred » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:31 am

Been playing Fallout 4 and 2 at the same time, who was the wise guy who thought breaking lore regarding power armour was a groovy idea, regardless, the poster armour, the T-60, is perhaps the laziest shit I've seen in a while, it's just an uglier T-45, I wonder if they did it for brand recognition reasons. Anyway, this definitely doesn't feel like a Fallout game, feels more like they gutted the system and put in some unknown bullshit system, I guess it's up to Obisidian if they ever get another license to make a new Fallout game to clean up Bethesda's shit.

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Postby Lorkhan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:39 am

Twenty bucks that Obsidian is going to use the exact same model for Power Armor usage. Personally I like it, since it stops Power Armor from just being "those late game clothes" you just throw on yourself. Different strokes and all that.
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Postby IronEvangelion » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:27 pm

If Obsidian does re-use the same PA models I really hope they make the parts unbreakable and remove the battery requirement. The PA breakability in FO4 never made sense in the first place. Why did they casualize the game by making everything else unbreakable, but then cover the PA in lots of easily breakable segments and give it a limited battery life? It clashes with the rest of the game mechanics. It's like making a racing game full of indestructible cars that never run out of gas, and then adding an armored car that breaks down and needs refills.

Honestly I can live with the PA being more of a 'walker' than a suit of armor if they just do away with those two issues. That or make everything breakable again to even things out.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby Tankred » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:31 pm

^Nothing ever broke in the old games, Iron, it's actually one of the things I'm quite pleased about, removing the repair feature was probably one of the wiser things they've done for this game.

View Original PostLorkhan wrote:Twenty bucks that Obsidian is going to use the exact same model for Power Armor usage. Personally I like it, since it stops Power Armor from just being "those late game clothes" you just throw on yourself. Different strokes and all that.


They'd probably be under obligation to, but it's still lore breaking, especially the fusion cores, if anything they should disregard that constraint because you usually aren't lacking for fusion cores in this game anyway, it's totally redundant by mid game for the most part. Powered Armour in Fallout has always been a suit, not some exoskeleton that has the armour built around it, power armour has always been late game clothes, in 1/2 it's something you'd almost always be wearing by the end game because it's objectively better than every other armour in the game unless you're doing some absurd challenge like beating Frank Horrigan to death with your bare hands in your Jumpsuit, which is probably possible.

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Postby IronEvangelion » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:42 pm

View Original PostTankred wrote:^Nothing ever broke in the old games, Iron, it's actually one of the things I'm quite pleased about, removing the repair feature was probably one of the wiser things they've done for this game.
Interesting, I had no idea. Then I definitely want Obsidian to remove the fusion core requirement and make the PA unbreakable. They can keep the option to mix and match parts, though. That actually was a pretty cool feature.
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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:03 pm

I've been playing Fallout since the original when it came out, and I like the addition of a fuel limit to power armor. It gives me a reason to not always run around in it. Yes it was always the designated late-game clothes in previous games; I didn't like that.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:25 pm

Be fair though, when it started out there were only like 4 armors total.

I really want to love this game, but I just kinda like it at best. It feels like a step backwards from NV in pretty much every respect but graphics. Almost everything about it still feels like a beta that needs testing and waiting for the actual plot to be added, not this shitty placeholder.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby IronEvangelion » Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:56 pm

Bethesda has just announced the first 3 add-ons for Fallout 4 and their pricing.

http://gematsu.com/2016/02/fallout-4-fi ... -announced

In addition they are now planning to make more add-ons than they were originally. However this will result in the price of the season pass increasing from $29.99 to $49.99.

Automatron, which releases next month, actually sounds pretty cool.
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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:49 pm

Far Harbor costs nearly half as much as the launch price of the game. I guess when I think about it objectively it makes sense, given the cost of modeling and voicing, but it's still the least interesting because it seems like just a quest and map pack.

I suspect the price is intentionally set higher than otherwise to make the current price of the season pass look like a good deal.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby Sachi » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:58 pm

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:Far Harbor costs nearly half as much as the launch price of the game. I guess when I think about it objectively it makes sense, given the cost of modeling and voicing, but it's still the least interesting because it seems like just a quest and map pack.

I suspect the price is intentionally set higher than otherwise to make the current price of the season pass look like a good deal.

When considering the price of all new games is almost always $59.99, regardless of quality or content, the cost of Fallout 4 was a steal. When I bought THPS5, I thought I was ripped off at least $20 or $30 for how low the quality of the game was; for Fallout 4, I felt like I was getting away with saving at least $20 or $30.
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Postby NemZ » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:11 pm

That's deeply disappointing. DLC for 3 and NV were almost all massive expansion sidestory packs like Far Harbor that added new locations and sidestory AS WELL as adding new crafting stuff, new items, and new perks. These more piddly add-ons are best left to the mod community, and are not what I was expecting to get when I bought the season pass. That they're planning to do more only underlines how low the bar was originally set here.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:31 pm

I can't help but laugh at the sheer contrast in our opinions!
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Re: Fallout

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Postby NemZ » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:54 pm

I'll also note that the many expansive DLCs for F3 and NV were almost universally just $10 while the more piddly ones were like $3. Inflation is a thing for sure, but holy crap guys.
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Re: Fallout

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Postby IronEvangelion » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:18 pm

Far Harbor seems really meh to me, especially at that price. I mean as far as expansions go, FO3 got a Maryland swamp, a VR recreation of the battle of Anchorage, an alien mothership, post-apocalyptic Pittsburgh, and post-ending gameplay. New Vegas got a forbidden toxic casino in Mexico, Zion National Park, a top-secret superscience research facility, and a nuke-riddled region where you actually got to launch nukes. Now FO4 is getting... an island in the north atlantic with a town on it? And the factions and plot are just a rehash of the main game? And it costs $25? :cringe:
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Re: Fallout

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Postby Tankred » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:45 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:I'll also note that the many expansive DLCs for F3 and NV were almost universally just $10 while the more piddly ones were like $3. Inflation is a thing for sure, but holy crap guys.


It's utterly pathetic, I don't think Bethesda will let Obsidian get near Fallout for fear of being shown up again by Black Isles ghost.


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