Portrayal of Asuka/Shinji relationship?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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[SPOILERS] Portrayal of Asuka/Shinji relationship?

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Postby MaskedOmega » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:38 pm

In 2.22, it seems their relationship is a lot more clear and how they feel for each other. This is mainly from Asuka being jealous of Shinji when he pays more attention to Rei than he does to her.

So do you guys like how the movie is making their relationship more clear?

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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:56 pm

There's really so much wrong with that what you're saying... They have very little interaction and shared dialogue, and there's no reason to feel that this highly different incarnation of them as characters could somehow be a 'more clear' rendition of what we saw in the show. It's apples and oranges.

Of course, even in the show they didn't really have a relationship in the romantic sense at all; there was tension to be sure, but they didn't confess feelings for eachother until EoE.

In short, these movies aren't making their relationship more clear; they're making it more nonexistent.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:02 pm

Maybe I'm repeating myself from other threads, but oh well.

I like how Asuka is more honest to herself about her feelings in New Movie Edition, though the lack of her attraction to Kaji is still sort of an adjustment. Then again, this is Shikinami and not Soryu; Yuko Miyamura WAS told to portray Shikinami as a different character from Soryu: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=9635

The one thing about Shikinami (so far at least, since we don't know her whole backstory) is while it's nice to see Asuka closer to being a true tsundere in her actions/attitude, I do like Soryu because she's not an actual tsundere in her characterization.

It's also a nice touch to see NME!Shinji equally caring for both teammates (He left Nerv because of guilt with what happened to Asuka/anger at Gendo and saved Rei to "do the right thing" out of concern for Rei, picking up where he failed.) instead of him focusing too much on Asuka (NGE) or too much on Rei (Sadamoto's manga) although this could change for either girl in the upcoming films. Actually, "too much" is the wrong phrase... Thinking about it more, I'd say Shinji DOES care very much for Asuka and Rei in either NGE or Sadamoto's manga, but Anno and Sadamoto simply spent more focus on which relationship they felt was more important (in the case of NGE, Rei is distant, Asuka's outgoing, so of course Asuka will "hog" Shinji's attention).

It does feel New Movie Edition's Shinji main concern is his relationship with Gendo (so far, Shinji really hasn't had much in the way of sexual scenes with Rei or Asuka other than a few fanservice scenes), but again, his wants/needs could play out differently since he's given up on a reconciliation at this point (although I do hope a proper Gendo/Shinji reconciliation happens down the line).

Also interesting is how Asuka and Shinji are now "two sides of the same coin" (they're both introverted with means of blocking out the world. Shinji with his SDAT, Asuka with her Wonderswan.) instead of "opposite sides of the same coin" (while they both have the same problems deep down, they react in opposite ways: Asuka is extroverted while pushing people away, Shinji is introverted while not letting anybody in) in NGE/EoE.

I really am looking forward to how their relationship post-Bardiel battle will play out, and under what circumstances they'll "some day meet again". I'm assuming there will be a wink and a nod to EoE in terms of reactions/personality/bitterness (Pre-3rd Impact Instrumentality/Instrumentality itself)/painful reconciling (final scene), but we'll see.

EDIT: It really is interesting how two people can walk away from the same film (2.22) with two totally different perceptions, although I guess in that sense it's not much different from NGE.
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Postby Shogo-Kun » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:19 pm

Yeah, I felt their relationship was more defined in Rebuild. It's clear Asuka is a loner who is willing to try to reach out to others, so I wonder if this means that Shikinami will have a more subdued reaction to seeing Shinji again after "you-know-what" as opposed to how Soryu would act.
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Postby evafanatic » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:47 pm

I think what I liked about the a/s in eoe and the latter half of nge was how it blatantly fits with episode 4's 'hedgehog's dilemma'.

With rebuild, I think that their relationship isn't as complex or blatant as rebuild's counterpart; they come off as more amiable and less angsty in terms of their interaction together and in a way I guess it does make it less entertaining.

So yea, I guess I'm hoping for more angst between the two(although I doubt any of that would happen seeing as how different Shikinami seems to be) - good a/s always needs a decent amount of angst ^_^

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Postby BornIn1142 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:54 am

Shinji's and Captain Shikinami's relationship is pretty much the complete antithesis of their complex, interesting and involvingly painful relationship in the original. Their interactions in 2.x are so minimal and their emotional involvement so one-sided that the drama surrounding Bardiel is somewhat undermined - and unfortunately, that's pretty much the only avenue between them to work with in the upcoming movies. There's just not enough development to give the convincing impression that Shinji is even aware of her, let alone cares about her. This would be all right in itself if that were the intention, but apparently, it's not. Their supposed connection is a giant, rushed misfire.

So if you get right down to it, no, I don't like it.
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Postby Warren Peace » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:39 am

Have you ever thought that maybe Asuka/Shinji isn't the point this time? That maybe they're going in a different direction, which is why the creators haven't retread the events of NGE? For all we know, Shinji could be inside Unit-01 for the entirety of Q. Which would mean Asuka's character is going in a radically different direction, independent of him. Eva fans have their own little checklist of stuff they want recreated in Rebuild, and if it isn't satisfied, the films are "misfires". Yes, if Rebuild is trying to paint A/S as some grand romance, it has failed. But there's no evidence that this is the story.

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Postby BornIn1142 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:58 am

I didn't make my post with any special consideration of an Asuka/Shinji love story. Actually, the fact that Asuka's feelings are one-sided is kind of obvious; it was their platonic relationship on Shinji's end that I called a misfire. I found their "romance" extremely compelling in the original and think that removing it was a net loss for Rebuild, but that's not really the issue. I would have been open to a well-done alternative, i.e. a real version of what they were going for. Little Shinji in 3.0 and a sorely needed increase in Asuka's screentime with independent characterization is sounding quite good.
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Postby Warren Peace » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:31 am

As far as relationships go, 2.X is mostly about Shinji and Rei. Asuka serves to advance the storyline of the film's two main characters. You can protest that decision, but it isn't fair to call the script failed just because it didn't go like you want it to. From a storytelling standpoint, it's solid -- Asuka has lots of scenes with Rei having to do with Rei's attitude towards Shinji. Maybe you think it should be the other way around, but the story is very focused in what it's trying to do.

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Postby BornIn1142 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:15 am

Making NME Shinji's and Rei's story is... a valid creative decision, yes. Nevertheless, 2.x still based a significant plot point and a major turn in Shinji's character on his relationship with Asuka - a relationship that was poorly established and ended up being incongruously meaningless. It's not a matter of personal preference that fleshing out Asuka's role there would have made the movie less flawed.

(Edited for clarity.)
Last edited by BornIn1142 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jornophelanthas » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:41 am

View Original PostBornIn1142 wrote:Making NME Shinji's and Rei's story is... a valid creative decision, yes. Nevertheless, 2.x still based a significant plot point and a major turn in Shinji's character on his relationship with Asuka - a relationship that was poorly established and ended up being incongruously meaningless. It's not a matter of personal preference that fleshing out Asuka's role there would have been an improvement.


I agree that there was room for improvement in this area of Rebuild 2.0.

But it is still a matter of (your) personal preference to consider this aspect of the actual movie a "giant, rushed misfire".

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Postby AuraTwilight » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:56 pm

There was an Asuka/Shinji relationship in this movie?

Basically all that happened between them was they slept in the same room (with Asuka just kind of stumbling in half-asleep for no reason), then Asuka decided to make him dinner then kind of gave up on that, then she got hurt and Shinji's like "OH NO MY BEST FRIEND."
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Postby LoCooLaidman » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:01 pm

Wait... there's a relationship between Shikanami and Shinji? Kidding aside, It's not as apperent as the way NGE showed it in my opinon. Actually that would be wrong too, but I guess they just didn't have the amount of time together and didn't interact as much I guess... wish that they did because it would've made Shinji's loss more shocking when the 03 thing happend. But because of the loss of interactions with Asuka, Shinji gets more time with Gendo and Rei... Kaji too?

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Postby Stryker » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:07 pm

View Original PostLoCooLaidman wrote:But because of the loss of interactions with Asuka, Shinji gets more time with Gendo and Rei... Kaji too?


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Postby SaltyJoe » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:54 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:For all we know, Shinji could be inside Unit-01 for the entirety of Q.

If only... I had enough of Puppy-kun in 2.xx to last me three lifetimes.

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:As far as relationships go, 2.X is mostly about Shinji and Rei.

I could have sworn the movie's main focus was the Shinji/Gendo dynamic.
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Postby Stryker » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:26 pm

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:I could have sworn the movie's main focus was the Shinji/Gendo dynamic.


*looks at sig* ...indeed...
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:24 pm

Shinji and Rei 2.22 discussion can be found over here. Carry on with this thread being about Shiki and Shinji.
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Postby Santo » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:27 am

I'm not making any decisions or judgments on Shinji/Asuka until after the last movie. For all we know, Unit 01 nearly killing Asuka could be a catalyst in bringing them together in Q. We don't really know yet. They may not establish any romantic relationship, outside of what Asuka feels.

We just have to wait it out and see.
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Postby Trajan » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:40 am

I'm withholding all judgment on the new nature of their relationship until Q comes out. Remember, the A x S dynamic in the original series was pretty shallow until 22' and EoE. Rebuild is technically still stuck around Episode 19 so there's still a lot of time left. It does, however, seem to be much more open at least on Asuka's part so far.
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Postby BornIn1142 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:55 am

View Original PostTrajan wrote:Remember, the A x S dynamic in the original series was pretty shallow until 22' and EoE. Rebuild is technically still stuck around Episode 19 so there's still a lot of time left.


Do you really think there's a comparison here? The reason the original was able to take them further from there was because there was so much material to work with, so many interactions to mine for hidden meanings and so forth. NME doesn't have that. And of course, Asuka's and Shinji's most significant moments from episodes 9 and 15 were not included. Further development would be handicapped because of a literal lack of foundation. Like I already mentioned, Bardiel is the pretty much only thing to define their relationship at this point.
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