Is it possible Gendo got what he wanted?

[evercharmer]

(Obviously, major spoilers for End of Evangelion.)


When Gendo was partially eaten by Unit-01, it's easy to assume that killed him. When his body turned into LCL, at least some of it went into Unit-01 (or perhaps all of it, depending on whether the thing finished it's snack). While Gendo sees this as punishment, I can't help but think about how Unit-01 ate the S² Engine to bring it into itself. Is is possible that it was at least trying to do the same with Gendo?

[Mr. Tines]

It's possible --

With the picture at the end of the scene with Rei and Kaworu as guide

Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real.

it has been suggested before now that the significant absences are due to the fact that they are now sailing the cosmos together in the Ark of Eva.

Also, EoTV can also be read as another Gendo success, based on those who are present.

[Monk Ed]

I never, ever noticed it before now, but Rei is in that picture, hidden behind Shinji.

[TehDonutKing]

Yay. Now I have something other then (than?) my fanboyismthingymadoobobshitmotheretakes to justify my preaching that Rei can come back. Oh, baby.

Anyway, EoTV was definitely a Gendo Best End, while EoE was probably a Gendo Kinda Better Than Bad End. [s]i think[/s]

[Reichu]

When Gendo was partially eaten by Unit-01, it's easy to assume that killed him. When his body turned into LCL, at least some of it went into Unit-01 (or perhaps all of it, depending on whether the thing finished it's snack). While Gendo sees this as punishment, I can't help but think about how Unit-01 ate the S² Engine to bring it into itself. Is is possible that it was at least trying to do the same with Gendo?

While it's ambiguous whether any of Gendo turns into LCL, I've long had similar thoughts associating the S2 assimilation with the Gendo-nomming. The Eva-01 that visits Gendo is even a visual throwback to episode 19.

[evercharmer]

Nicer to know I'm not the only one who thought it, then. Though, the question now is whether or not it was just images Instrumentality showed Gendo or if it actually happened. Considering Unit-01 is a god, now, could it be in two places at once?

The idea of Instrumentality showing that to Gendo could work too, though. He did see Yui, and at the same time the Eva killing him could be seen as punishment. He also got to apologize to Shinji. To top it all off, it ends with something that could be him joining his wife for eternity.

I'm going to have to go back and check to see if it is indeed the same Eva from episode 19, but I'm sure you're right.


(Also, who says both endings can't co-exist?)

[TehDonutKing]

Occam's Razor.

[Monk Ed]

My question I was about to ask was, if Gendo really is in there with Yui, then why would she talk like she's going to be alone? But then I realized...

Yui:
Yes. Humans can only live on this planet, but Evangelion can live forever... together with the human soul that dwells within it.

(EVA-01 and the Lance of Longinus float in space)

Even after 5 billion years, when the Earth, the Moon, and even the Sun have disappeared, it will still exist as long as even one person still lives.
It will be very lonely, but as long as that one person still lives...

Fuyutsuki:
It will be the eternal proof that humankind has existed...

Yui never actually said any of that during EoE, it was a flashback! So then, it's possible that things changed -- that she decided to take Gendo along with her. A dozen-ish years is also a long time to change one's mind about the little details.

[Reichu]

It's also possible that loneliness is part of the equation regardless of whether you have tag-a-longs or not. The Eva's existence is contingent on Yui inhabiting it, and she's elevated to a peerless god as a result. Is it possible to meaningfully interact with those aboard your 'ark', who only exist in disembodied form? Maybe, but...

[Monk Ed]

It's also possible that loneliness is part of the equation regardless of whether you have tag-a-longs or not. The Eva's existence is contingent on Yui inhabiting it, and she's elevated to a peerless god as a result. Is it possible to meaningfully interact with those aboard your 'ark', who only exist in disembodied form? Maybe, but...

In NGE2's Gendo Happy End, it didn't seem to be a problem for him to interact with Yui. That we can see, anyway. But I guess we don't see what happens 300 years down the road.

[Reichu]

In NGE2's Gendo Happy End, it didn't seem to be a problem for him to interact with Yui. That we can see, anyway.

It didn't really go into that much detail. Gendo seemed to be returning to a scene from the past (albeit with an adult Rei hanging out, for some reason) -- Yui and Shinji from around 2004. It conveyed the sense to me of some kind of idealized dream world, totally severed from the reality that had come to pass. Like, Gendo can float around in there, and be all self-satisfied that his wish has come true, and enjoy a distorted sense of reality where time stands still -- but Yui is still interfaced with the outside world, and gets to watch the impermanence of the universe over a span of time we can't even comprehend.

[Monk Ed]

It didn't really go into that much detail. Gendo seemed to be returning to a scene from the past (albeit with an adult Rei hanging out, for some reason) -- Yui and Shinji from around 2004. It conveyed the sense to me of some kind of idealized dream world, totally severed from the reality that had come to pass. Like, Gendo can float around in there, and be all self-satisfied that his wish has come true, and enjoy a distorted sense of reality where time stands still -- but Yui is still interfaced with the outside world, and gets to watch the impermanence of the universe over a span of time we can't even comprehend.

How ... appropriately solipsistic and creepy.

I have indeed felt for a while now that Gendo loved Yui more as an idol than as a person, so that especially fits.

Edit @Trajan below me: That is what I meant, yes.

[Trajan]

Or as a person that became an idol in his mind. He was obsessive enough over her that he was maybe in love with the ideal Yui and not the woman per say.

[LordEvan88]

While it's ambiguous whether any of Gendo turns into LCL, I've long had similar thoughts associating the S2 assimilation with the Gendo-nomming. The Eva-01 that visits Gendo is even a visual throwback to episode 19.

Really, I kind of assumed he recieved the ultimate punishment, he is killed but not allowed to pass on. Since he has the judgment of Shinji, Yui, and Lilith/Rei passed against him he was not allowed a place in instrumentality.

His ambition and desire for Yui overrode his capacity to love his own son. Which is really all the matters when you get down to it. He lost the woman he loves, it happens. But instead of stepping forward and doing good by their child who she loved above all he turned on his son and humanity and thus he is denied his reward.

Of course in EoTV its possible that with his control of the situation he was reunited with Yui, for what its worth.

[symbv]

It didn't really go into that much detail. Gendo seemed to be returning to a scene from the past (albeit with an adult Rei hanging out, for some reason) -- Yui and Shinji from around 2004. It conveyed the sense to me of some kind of idealized dream world, totally severed from the reality that had come to pass. Like, Gendo can float around in there, and be all self-satisfied that his wish has come true, and enjoy a distorted sense of reality where time stands still -- but Yui is still interfaced with the outside world, and gets to watch the impermanence of the universe over a span of time we can't even comprehend.

In short, Gendou was instrumentalized.... which of course means he got his wishes fulfilled (if only in his mind)....

[Aozora]

My question I was about to ask was, if Gendo really is in there with Yui, then why would she talk like she's going to be alone? But then I realized...

Yui never actually said any of that during EoE, it was a flashback! So then, it's possible that things changed -- that she decided to take Gendo along with her. A dozen-ish years is also a long time to change one's mind about the little details.

But would they include that dialogue at the end to the film if Yui had changed her mind and that was no longer the case?

[rhfxz1s]

t has been suggested before now that the significant absences are due to the fact that they are now sailing the cosmos together in the Ark of Eva.

Hmm, I always figured it was because Shinji simply didn't want to see his father again. As for Yui, well, you could assume that Shinji doesn't think she can be pulled out of 01 and basically considers her dead at this point. Alternately, you can look at the whole "Goodbye Mother/Take Care of Yourself" theme of 26 and 26' and assume that it's simply Shinji no longer relying on his parents for happiness.

[Reichu]

Any explanation of the absentees in the photo must take into account the fact that Gendo, Fuyutsuki, Yui, and Kaworu are missing -- but Rei is not.

[Monk Ed]

Any explanation of the absentees in the photo must take into account the fact that Gendo, Fuyutsuki, Yui, and Kaworu are missing -- but Rei is not.

And the fact that Rei is obscured, don't forget.

[AshPhoenix]

Any explanation of the absentees in the photo must take into account the fact that Gendo, Fuyutsuki, Yui, and Kaworu are missing -- but Rei is not.

I'm going to go with the idea that the picture represents Shinji's bonds with the people around him. He hates Gendo, doesn't really remember much about Yui, and didn't have too much of a relationship with Fuyutsuki. He had some familiarity with the Bridge Bunnies, so that's probably why they're included. Shinji really liked Rei before the Dummy Plug Plant incident, but afterwards, he became disillusioned (? I'm not sure if that's the right word there. Maybe more like disgusted/afraid?) with her, so Re would be obscured.