Unit 02's alternate mode - I don't like it.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Unit 02's alternate mode - I don't like it.

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Postby BlueOcean » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:15 pm

Now, I enjoyed 2.0 a lot (still waiting for 2.22 to come to Britain, argh) and didn't have a lot of problems with it. I was one of the people who didn't like Mari's appearance in the film, but that might just be because she hasn't had enough development yet (I'm waiting to find out about her debilitating mental problems).

But when she entered Beast Mode, I was shocked. Her fight was pretty cool up to that point, reminding me a lot of Asuka from the TV series but the problem I had with Beast Mode was that it was purely against what the Evas were: Humans. Of course, they weren't Homo Sapiens, but as living beings they showed at times human reactions to situations they found themselves in. Evas can go berserk, and that is similar to Beast Mode, but that isn't the problem; the problem is what is implied by Beast Mode: that the Eva is forced to "abandon its humanity".

Evangelion should not be able to function in this fashion, especially since Beast Mode is a "controlled" berserk, it is still the pilot that commands the Eva. Because of this, Beast Mode also removes the humanity of the pilot (to an extent, of course [and it is possible to recover from it, from what we've seen of Mari in the preview for 3.0]). One of the main reasons Evangelion was so good was the pilots and their relationships with their Evas. As soon as the pilots stop conveying emotion through action and simply let themselves be controlled by "primal" side of their minds the show breaks down into an ordinary mecha anime.

Phew. Enough about what I think; how do you guys feel about Beast Mode?

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 pm

I think "Evas should not be able to do this or that" (going against people's expectations or assumptions of the Eva units, and New Movie Edition, overall) is part of the point of 2.0/Break and destroying "old Eva" with "new Eva". (The 2.22 BD/DVD booklet sort of goes into this, as well...)

I think Beast Mode is a very interesting function, and was intentionally shocking. Especially the aspect of pilots (Shinji, Mari) going berserk(?) like the Eva units themselves. I find myself wondering if the other Eva are equipped with this feature, or if it had something to do with the core Mari's people installed into Eva-02...Hm.
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Postby LordEvan88 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:24 pm

The rules have been wiped clean for NEM, so I am not sure what Beast Mode means.

I like the idea of Beast Mode actually, the idea of the bestial Evangelion bleeding into the pilot for the sake of combat is awesome as a visual/dramatic device.

However I doubt it will amount to much. I don't expect them to use the ability again, and its not something that was used lightly. This says less about the Evas and more about Mari, whom we know nothing about. It means someone knows far more about the Evangelions and is actually willing to do something with that knowledge rather than hold it all to themselves like Seele or Gendo.

Oddly enough, Mari is one of the few characters whom motives I do not doubt, much like Kaji. The two of them are shady and secretive but they are so with good intentions.

Although I could just as easily be wrong. We wont know until the year 2019 when 3.0 comes out. Also, anyone who buys tickets will get a free copy of the new hit game Half Life 2: Episode 3.
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Re: Unit 02's alternate mode - I don't like it.

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Postby Reichu » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:32 pm

View Original PostBlueOcean wrote:Phew. Enough about what I think; how do you guys feel about Beast Mode?

My immediate visceral reaction was, "WTF is this shit? What did they do to my Eva-02? What kind of ugly ass design work is this? How the heck are those huge hair curlers supposed to fit inside an Eva!human body? What's with the cartoony animation? How can anybody else say that this kicks ass? ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGH"

My underlying sentiments haven't changed that much, though the raeg factor has died down quite a bit.

I'm kind of opposite you in the sense that the "abandoning humanity" idea is actually one of things I like about Beast Mode, and I wish this had been explored a little more. The metamorphosis and body horror aspects tickle my fancies, too, but I dislike a lot of things about how they implemented those aspects.
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Postby BlueOcean » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:33 pm

@SSD: I wanted to write something about the how the NME is different from the TV series, and I guess that maybe Anno put in Beast Mode to mark the departure of Rebuild from the past continuity; in which case, I hate Anno more.

Sailor Star Dust wrote:I find myself wondering if the other Eva are equipped with this feature, or if it had something to do with the core Mari's people installed into Eva-02...

When does it say that a new core was installed into 02? I thought that was just conjecture (if it wasn't enlighten me).

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:36 pm

BlueOcean: This post, I believe: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=449479#449479

Also: What's the point of a remake if it's going to be exactly the same as the original? It might as well go into new and uncharted territory.
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Postby Eva 04 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:38 pm

Meh. Beast Mode is allright. Personally,I like
SPOILER: Show
when Unit 01 awakens near the end of the film since that's my favorite part
.

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Postby BlueOcean » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:51 pm

Reichu wrote:I'm kind of opposite you in the sense that the "abandoning humanity" idea is actually one of things I like about Beast Mode, and I wish this had been explored a little more. The metamorphosis and body horror aspects tickle my fancies, too...

Sailor Star Dust wrote:It might as well go into new and uncharted territory.

I'm beginning to see it from another angle now. Yes, Beast Mode would be very interesting to look at more closely and explore. The problem is as LordEvan said, is that Beast Mode is likely not to be used again, so we may not get that chance. There are more important things to find out anyway, so unless Q and Final are 4-hour long epics, I wouldn't really expect to find out more about Beast Mode (apart from its effects on Mari, which would certainly be fascinating, considering she comes out of Unit 02 with more than "Ow, my head hurts").

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Postby BC Baron » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:34 am

The only thing I disliked about the Beast Mode sequence was who they chose to put in the entry plug. I've never even really considered myself much of an Asuka fan, but it still just kinda felt wrong for anybody else to be piloting her Eva into battle. It wouldn't have bothered me so much if Mari was showboating in Unit-05 (or if she'd been selected as the test pilot of Unit-03), but as far as I'm concerned, if there's anyone who has earned the exclusive right to demonstrate every last one of Unit-02's previously unseen combat capabilities, it's definitely the Second Child.
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Postby Fallingtogrey » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:04 am

Not really.
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Postby Mad Cow Milk » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:06 am

I am going to agree with Reichu on this. The concept was great and interesting. However it's depiction and visual portrayal was cartoon-ish and unappealing. I get that they were trying to make it move more naturally, and more in a beast like state, but this could have been done better with out making it look like the Marvel venom symbiot creeped onto the Eva and took over and had a brain seizures and gave to eva an extra set of joints all over its body. Visually I would have preferred it be more like Eva 01 initially did in NGE, but they have been pushing for new things in these movies.

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Postby Hatsumi92 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:44 am

To me Beast Mode is pretty great. It wasn't very effective during the fight and I believe that was the intention, for Zeruel to seem unstoppable.

I also believe Mari knows how to access any Evangelion's beast mode because of what she says during it's transformation. It was as if she was trying to encourage Unit 02 to work with her and make this work. It'd also make a lot more sense as to why Unit 02 during beast mode was pretty much falling apart. Unit 02 wasn't built for beast mode.

But that's just my theory.

edit: fixed typos. S button doesn't like me much.
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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:52 am

I really, really liked "Beast Mode". It was a nice surprise, totally unexpected, and something I've always wanted to see since the original series.
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Postby Shogo-Kun » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:54 am

Well, it's not called Rebuild of Evangelion for no reason, right? If it was the same as the series, we wouldn't watch it, right? I mean if wanted to watch a recap of EVA, get Death and Rebirth.

@Topic: I loved Beast Mode. It was nice to finally see someone use Berserk to their advantage. Plus, it looks frickin' cool! I think more mecha shows should have beastial weapons with little to no control unless you're willing to sacrifice your humanity. But then again, that's only because I'm a guy and I get hot on that shit.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:48 am

View Original PostShogo-Kun wrote:Well, it's not called Rebuild of Evangelion for no reason, right?

To be picky, it isn't actually called "Rebuild of Evangelion". :p (That was a working title, not the current one.)

It was nice to finally see someone use Berserk to their advantage.

It's not "berserk" (lit. "out of control") if you can control it.

MadCow wrote:I get that they were trying to make it move more naturally, and more in a beast like state, but this could have been done better with out making it look like the Marvel venom symbiot creeped onto the Eva and took over and had a brain seizures and gave to eva an extra set of joints all over its body

:lol:, well said.

View Original PostJoseph the PRPD wrote:I really, really liked "Beast Mode". It was a nice surprise, totally unexpected, and something I've always wanted to see since the original series.

You've always wanted to see something as specific as an Eva turning into a semi-quadrupedal, giant-mawed, pin-toothed, slobbering symbiote/hellhound thing?
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Postby Sachi » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:26 pm

I enjoyed Beast mode, but unless it gets developed (eg, getting more screen time, or given some explanation as to how its relevant to anything in the plot) I'm going to consider it fairly pointless. The writers introduced a completely new feature of the Evangelion, one that sounds completely badass and amazing, yet it's utterly ineffective and does nothing for the plot as of this point. I look forward to further development of this feature, but for now it's just eye candy.
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Postby Shogo-Kun » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:23 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:I enjoyed Beast mode, but unless it gets developed (eg, getting more screen time, or given some explanation as to how its relevant to anything in the plot) I'm going to consider it fairly pointless. The writers introduced a completely new feature of the Evangelion, one that sounds completely badass and amazing, yet it's utterly ineffective and does nothing for the plot as of this point. I look forward to further development of this feature, but for now it's just eye candy.


Maybe that's the point. Just eye candy. And what's wrong with that? Every medium has some form of eye candy/fanservice. Besides, I'm more interested in the characters, especially Gendo and Shinji,at this point getting more development, not the EVAs. They're more like the MacGuffins of this universe IMO.
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Postby Warren Peace » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:43 pm

Beast mode's design changes were essential. They drove home the fact that this is different from berserk. Without them, the sequence would have had much less impact -- it's successful because that's the last thing you expect to happen. And in fairness, such a design is not unprecedented -- remember the harpies?

View Original PostSachi wrote:I enjoyed Beast mode, but unless it gets developed (eg, getting more screen time, or given some explanation as to how its relevant to anything in the plot) I'm going to consider it fairly pointless. The writers introduced a completely new feature of the Evangelion, one that sounds completely badass and amazing, yet it's utterly ineffective and does nothing for the plot as of this point.


I have to disagree. Beast mode makes a very specific point, tying into the end of the film. That is that this angel could not be defeated through viciousness alone (lack of humanity). It is undone by Shinji's concern for Rei -- the definition of humanity. That Beast Mode fails is the point.

For those of you who hate the design, things could have been worse. The 2.22 booklet mentions that FUR was considered! :jawdrop:
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Postby Reichu » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:44 pm

Shogo: There's no reason why the Evas can't complement the development of the characters. This isn't some either/or thing. Well-crafted narratives can tie all sorts of seemingly disparate elements together in a way that enriches the whole lot.

Warren: I don't mind them differentiating this from old-school berserk, but there's any number of "looks" they could have settled upon that I'd have liked better. And it's not just the look; it's the overall execution of the idea. But I'm just repeating myself.

"Fur"? Ewww. They didn't publish that stuff in 2.0 CRC...
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Postby Warren Peace » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:01 pm

The section reads:

BEAST TRANSFORMATION MODE 02
THE BEAST

One of the power transformation ideas proposed by Shinji Higuchi for the climatic battle with The Tenth Angel. The wild idea to have it rip right through the A.T. Field also came out at this stage. Other ideas included sprouting fur. The common theme was "Eva Transformation" with all ideas consistent with the intention of a product that broke with past concepts.


I do like the design's shout out to Jet Alone -- something else that is "stripped of its humanity".


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