So, why do we love Eva again?

[symbv]

^ Playing Devil's Advocate, eh? GJ

[BornIn1142]

Asuka is overexaggarated ball of ridiculousness and angst and "supergenius" that never shows, Shinji is just...Shinji. Misato's slobness and work skillz are unrealistically at odds and Rei isn't even a character.

Personality disorders take care of all that.

[Xard]

Personality disorders take care of all that.

Doesn't make them realistic or even good portrayals of said "disorders". They're cartoon characters in the end and accordingly silly.

[liquidus118]

Because characters are unrealistic, setting is halfassed, story full with holes, philosophy pretentious, psychology debunked Freud lunacy, angel/Eva designs are inferior copies of Ultraman shit, Anno can't tell a story if his life depends on it, music is either plagiarism or crappy, judeochristian imagery is pretentious and meaningless

I assume you're joking considering where we are, otherwise; why are you on an Eva site in the first place?

[Bagheera]

Aoba, Maya and Hikari are only halfway decently portrayed characters in the series.

Not really true.

Asuka is overexaggarated ball of ridiculousness and angst and "supergenius" that never shows,

The last is true, but the rest isn't. Her reaction to her mother's death is pretty typical, actually.

Shinji is just...Shinji.

That's not really a critique, you know.

Misato's slobness and work skillz are unrealistically at odds

I know people like that, actually.

and Rei isn't even a character.

Meh.

They're writer hijacked mouthpieces for whatever issues Anno had on his mind with little coherency. It's unrealistic to have 14 year old pilot giant robot in the first place

Giant robots powered by the souls of humans are unrealistic in the first place. Once you establish that that's how they work (and that the only ones who can pilot them are the offspring of the dead folks that drive them) the question of realism is moot.

And of course that has no bearing on the portrayal of the characters, apart from providing context -- which actually adds to the characters' plausibility.

Only reason Eva characters are as popular as they are is their fappable looks which has led to largest doujinshi-per-series quotient in history of the industry.

If that's what does it for you, sure. I know plenty of us like 'em for many other reasons, though.

[SaltyJoe]

Eh, works of fiction where the characters aren't exaggerated in some ways are few and far between. If nothing else, the characters of Eva almost constantly project their basic character traits in very forceful ways. And that's fine, because they are not actual people with fluid, dynamic personalities, with an actual spectrum of moods instead of a few states to alternate between. They are devices that have to complete some narrative function within a limited timeframe that wouldn't even allow them to act like real people in the first place.

What makes me dig Eva is that it can sell it's stuff to me. It makes it's ludicrous setting and unrealistic characters and whatnot interesting to the point where it gets me invested and strikes emotional chords. And that's what counts, ultimately.

P.S.:
It's also awesomely violent with peerless image composition.

[Trajan]

1 - It makes me think and involves me mentally.
2 - It's presentation and art is cool.
3 - I can relate to Shinji.
4 - It's memerable. I joined the forums because I kept thinking about during the day. It's the kind of show that leaves a deep impression.
5 - It lets you develop your own interpretations about things.
6 - I like the music.

Does it have flaws? Yes, but the quality of a work is determined by how much the pros outweigh the cons; in the case of Eva the pros far outweigh the cons for me.

[Bagheera]

Eh, works of fiction where the characters aren't exaggerated in some ways are few and far between. If nothing else, the characters of Eva almost constantly project their basic character traits in very forceful ways. And that's fine, because they are not actual people with fluid, dynamic personalities, with an actual spectrum of moods instead of a few states to alternate between. They are devices that have to complete some narrative function within a limited timeframe that wouldn't even allow them to act like real people in the first place.

That's just it, though; they are pretty dynamic. That's what makes them interesting (and what leads to all sorts of debates about what would or would not be in character for them, since that very dynamism makes their actions and motives very open to interpretation).

What makes me dig Eva is that it can sell it's stuff to me. It makes it's ludicrous setting and unrealistic characters and whatnot interesting to the point where it gets me invested and strikes emotional chords. And that's what counts, ultimately.

It is good at drawing the viewer in, no doubt about that.

[Kendrix]

So Xard, now you have trolled us. Give us the real answer now :)


For me, it's that the philosophy in it helped me along during a difficult time of my life. It analizes both our current sucess oriented socciety and the human condition itself and is full of deep truths. Also, Kaworu is hot.

[Xard]

I assume you're joking considering where we are, otherwise; why are you on an Eva site in the first place?

being a hypocrite, like a majority of users here.

Now, unlike Allemann (who I suspect was pretty serious with his reply) my own thinking might actually be quite close to what you wrote initially. But that just shows how much a fool I am - I can even say that eva changed my life back in the day, which is pathetic in itself. If one finds eva deep or personally relevant you're either fool or dysfunctional, chances are you're both. Well, at least I'm conscious of this even if I can't change myself for better. To witness unwarrantedly self-important, oblivious, pretentious rambles and descriptions of eva by new fans is sometimes downright painful; Bagheera is already developing into mini-Jimbo with boner for Asuka instead of religious symbolism. Old members who still hang around are already so jaded by now such silly outbursts don't come from them which is the natural evolution, luckily...

You guys sound like I did when I lurked Evamonkey back in 2007 and some time after joining in 2008. Deja vu is of the most unpleasant kind as I was quite a tool back then.

Not really true.

Aoba and Hikari get by with their rather minimalist and broad portrayal (nothing too specific), Maya is just very normal young woman overall. Someone you might meet, unlike the outlandish based-on-anime-cliches main cast.

The last is true, but the rest isn't. Her reaction to her mother's death is pretty typical, actually.

[URL=http://img14.imageshack.us/i/evangeliondeepandcomple.jpg/][/URL]
[URL=http://img688.imageshack.us/i/evangeliondeepandcomple.jpg/][/URL]
kyaaa~

Asuka is basically tsundere hotblooded rival character a la Freud Jung with added Freudian crappy childhood baggage.

Giant robots powered by the souls of humans are unrealistic in the first place. Once you establish that that's how they work (and that the only ones who can pilot them are the offspring of the dead folks that drive them) the question of realism is moot.

And of course that has no bearing on the portrayal of the characters, apart from providing context -- which actually adds to the characters' plausibility.

Which is why liquidus's "realistic characters" was so silly.

If that's what does it for you, sure. I know plenty of us like 'em for many other reasons, though.

I'm not into that stuff, I was just thinking why Eva got so popular in the first place.

Tsurumaki once said that most crucial skill to work in industry is to be able to draw cute girls. Eva has cute girls AND robots. No other reasons needed for its popularity.

[Light]

Asuka is too good for this world!

[symbv]

I'm not into that stuff, I was just thinking why Eva got so popular in the first place.

Tsurumaki once said that most crucial skill to work in industry is to be able to draw cute girls. Eva has cute girls AND robots. No other reasons needed for its popularity.

It is easy to find how come Eva was popular (cute girls, mecha, blah blah) but it was much harder to explain why it got THAT POPULAR (at least in Japan). Basically it enchanted/traumatized one whole generation in Japan and that included a lot of people who were not anime otaku. One key factor though was, given its subject matter and borderline fan service, its time slot being in anime golden hours instead of the midnight slot which would be where Eva goes to if Eva were to be aired today. It guaranteed easy access for a broader viewing public which definitely helped. All the shocks and debates at the later stage and particularly the last 2 episodes fed a positive feedback loop that got the show even higher rating when it was rebroadcast one year later. Some places got even more re-broadcast later (Tokyo got 3 in total) which pushed the anime into a frenzied level of attention. I don't think the pieces that allowed for a supernova type of success like Eva for a TV anime are still in place now, so I don't think another Eva will appear, at least not for a while.

[Xard]

It is easy to find how come Eva was popular (cute girls, mecha, blah blah) but it was much harder to explain why it got THAT POPULAR (at least in Japan). Basically it enchanted/traumatized one whole generation in Japan and that included a lot of people who were not anime otaku. One key factor though was, given its subject matter and borderline fan service, its time slot being in anime golden hours instead of the midnight slot which would be where Eva goes to if Eva were to be aired today. It guaranteed easy access for a broader viewing public which definitely helped. All the shocks and debates at the later stage and particularly the last 2 episodes fed a positive feedback loop that got the show even higher rating when it was rebroadcast one year later. Some places got even more re-broadcast later (Tokyo got 3 in total) which pushed the anime into a frenzied level of attention. I don't think the pieces that allowed for a supernova type of success like Eva for a TV anime are still in place now, so I don't think another Eva will appear, at least not for a while.

Oh yes, I know that. Because it fits my interests in general I think I've read quite a bit more on Eva's popularity/standing in Japan than your average fan.

I was just being sardonic and cynical...

[symbv]

Oh yes, I know that. Because it fits my interests in general I think I've read quite a bit more on Eva's popularity/standing in Japan than your average fan.

I was just being sardonic and cynical...

But what I wrote could only explain how it became explosively popular in Japan. How come it became also so wildly popular in the west? I have no idea... I always wonder whether those "pseudo-Judeo-Christian" symbols played some role....

[Bagheera]

Now, unlike Allemann (who I suspect was pretty serious with his reply) my own thinking might actually be quite close to what you wrote initially. But that just shows how much a fool I am - I can even say that eva changed my life back in the day, which is pathetic in itself. If one finds eva deep or personally relevant you're either fool or dysfunctional, chances are you're both. Well, at least I'm conscious of this even if I can't change myself for better. To witness unwarrantedly self-important, oblivious, pretentious rambles and descriptions of eva by new fans is sometimes downright painful; Bagheera is already developing into mini-Jimbo with boner for Asuka instead of religious symbolism. Old members who still hang around are already so jaded by now such silly outbursts don't come from them which is the natural evolution, luckily...

It's not so much a boner for Asuka as an appreciation for her character and how it develops over time (I find her fetishization generally tedious in all honesty). I feel similarly about Shinji, though he has more in the way of legitimate defenders (as opposed to people who wanna shag him, as is the case with Rei and Asuka) that I don't to be as vocal about him.

Misato too, truth be told, though her story with Kaji is straightforward enough that I don't find there's all that much to say about it.

Aoba and Hikari get by with their rather minimalist and broad portrayal (nothing too specific), Maya is just very normal young woman overall. Someone you might meet, unlike the outlandish based-on-anime-cliches main cast.

Hyuga? Fuyutsuki? Kaji? Hell, Yui or Kyoko?

And I disagree about the anime cliches. The reason the characters generated the reaction they did was because they didn't hew strongly to those cliches.

Asuka is basically tsundere hotblooded rival character a la Freud Jung with added Freudian crappy childhood baggage.

If you take out the deredere, sure. In which case she's just a broken kid with a superiority complex. That's neither stereotypical nor terribly unrealistic.

Which is why liquidus's "realistic characters" was so silly.

Not really. The absurdity of the setting and the premise has no bearing on the plausibility of the characters or their reaction to it. The two are different things.

I'm not into that stuff, I was just thinking why Eva got so popular in the first place.

Pretty faces don't make a franchise endure.

Tsurumaki once said that most crucial skill to work in industry is to be able to draw cute girls. Eva has cute girls AND robots. No other reasons needed for its popularity.

And all the shows with cute girls and robots that went nowhere fast? What about them? You're oversimplifying.

But what I wrote could only explain how it became explosively popular in Japan. How come it became also so wildly popular in the west? I have no idea... I always wonder whether those "pseudo-Judeo-Christian" symbols played some role....

Simple:

1. Interesting plot and characters

2. Defies convention

3. Leaves a lot of unanswered questions, which invites analysis, which gives people something to talk about.

Add it all up and you wind up with a recipe for enduring success.

[Xard]

But what I wrote could only explain how it became explosively popular in Japan. How come it became also so wildly popular in the west? I have no idea... I always wonder whether those "pseudo-Judeo-Christian" symbols played some role....

Well, obviously Eva's quality transcends national boundaries. That's it, really. The judeochristian symbolism did nothing but confuse people.

Fundamentally I think Eva's appeal lies in its characters.

[SaltyJoe]

That's just it, though; they are pretty dynamic.

They're dynamic in the sense that they go through some pretty major shifts, and they're intriguing enough that people will start to build on them, expand their perosnalities in their own minds.

But otherwise, their character development is pretty railroad like. When i first watched the series I could tell by about Epsiode 02 that Rei's schtick will be that "ZOMG SHE HAS EMOTIONS AFTER ALL!!11!'", that Gendo has some dead wife/loss of female presence related hangup, and that Asuka....

Lets quote Toastyfrog's Evangelion Thumbnail Theatre:

Kensuke: Asuka sure seems popular with all these people who don't know what a pain she is.

Asuka: Quiet, nerd boy, and let me bask in popularity before my ignominious crumble into misery!

In short, i never got the feeling that the characters were developing their personalities with any degree of freedom.



Oh yeah, another reason to like Eva is that Ikuhara sure as hell took some clues from NGE's cinematic language when making Utena, a superior anime series.

SPOILER: Show

[URL=http://img853.imageshack.us/i/heresy.jpg/][/URL]

[symbv]

Oh yeah, another reason to like Eva is that Ikuhara sure as hell took some clues from NGE's cinematic language when making Utena, a superior anime series.

If you count the severity of headache generated as an indication of superiority of the anime, then yes Utena is superior.

[Ornette]

Tsurumaki once said that most crucial skill to work in industry is to be able to draw cute girls. Eva has cute girls AND robots. No other reasons needed for its popularity.

If that's really all it takes to be popular, I have watched dozens of series with cute girls and robots and none of them are even remotely as popular.

Harping on the unrealistic nature of the premise is just as dumb thing to say. You can put a character on the surface of Venus without a space suit and have them portrayed realistically or unrealistically. Simply because the premise is unrealistic has nothing to do with its portrayal.

[Bagheera]

They're dynamic in the sense that they go through some pretty major shifts, and they're intriguing enough that people will start to build on them, expand their perosnalities in their own minds.

But otherwise, their character development is pretty railroad like. When i first watched the series I could tell by about Epsiode 02 that Rei's schtick will be that "ZOMG SHE HAS EMOTIONS AFTER ALL!!11!'", that Gendo has some dead wife/loss of female presence related hangup, and that Asuka....

So, what, it has to be surprising or unexpected to be realistic? That's silly. Hell, some things that are trite and cliche are nonetheless credible representations of reality (just as some things that are deep or shocking or unexpected decidedly are not).

I call 'em realistic because they're layered and issues of cause and effect line up pretty well. That's enough to warrant the label for me, at least until we get into issues of reality being unrealistic (which is part of why too much realism can be very, very bad for storytelling).

I'm pretty sure Asuka's breakdown would be a lot messier in real life, for instance, and I can't even speculate on how a person would actually react to violation by Arael (or Armisael, far as that goes). But if we saw all that depicted realistically we wouldn't want anything to do with it, so we file off the sharp edges and go with plausible instead of painstakingly accurate and call it a day.