Evangelion 2.0 CRC: Anno Interview

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:06 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:I mean, they go on to describe the part C in which Asuka has fallen off the face of the earth and is hardly mentioned or acknowledged again.

I think they're saying that Asuka leaves the stage AFTER Part C...

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:06 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:^ btw, is that accurately written? because, I mean, they go on to describe the part C in which Asuka has fallen off the face of the earth and is hardly mentioned or acknowledged again.


The sarcasm is really getting old.

And thanks a lot as usual, Number-kun. (I still need to look at the transcripts you sent me.)
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Postby gwern » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:07 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:^ btw, is that accurately written? because, I mean, they go on to describe the part C in which Asuka has fallen off the face of the earth and is hardly mentioned or acknowledged again.


I take Anno as meaning that events are supposed to be revolving around Asuka's contamination and the consequences thereof: Shinji leaving.

Which is an example of how Anno's perspective is different from ours. For example, while I theorized that Kaji and Mari were in cahoots, I didn't think this was proven or even all that obvious, yet Anno seems to think that he has satisfactorily established it:

So I completely cut that [relationship], and instead decided to have Kaji be close to Mari.


'be close'? zomgwtf, 2 cryptic lines is not close!

Notice also that Anno thinks that we don't see a lot of Shinji!

Because Rei's dinner party became the hinge for the rest of Part C, the main character, Shinji, had a hard time making appearances in the story. Because there are many "waiting" situations rather than a feeling of activity, you just forget about him, right? Watching the rushes that were made along the way, Shinji's appearances were too few, or should I say that he didn't appear for too long a period of time.


Let's just say that in both viewings of 2.0, I never once thought, 'gosh I haven't seen Shinji in a while'...

What I did like about this section especially is that it confirms a lot of things I and others had thought: that Kaji and Hikari had been cut from Asuka for lack of time; that Kaji had a connection with Mari; and that Asuka was even more isolated and socially lonely than in TV.

(Added section to my local compilation of CRC translations but not the old pastebin compilation.)

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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:14 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:The sarcasm is really getting old.

That wasn't sarcasm at all, though. Everything you quoted there was completely in earnest.

View Original PostReichu wrote:I think they're saying that Asuka leaves the stage AFTER Part C...

Ah, that makes sense to me then. Thanks!

Edited twice to include response to Reichu
Last edited by Seele00TextOnly on Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:18 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:Everything you quoted there was completely in earnest.


Ah, my apologies then. :sweatdrop:

gwern: Yeah, I enjoyed this interview part for the same reasons you stated. Personally, I got the sense (especially on repeated viewings) that Kaji and Mari were working for the same organization--but obviously for whatever reason have different goals... It should be interesting to see how things play out in 3.0.
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Postby Azathoth » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:24 am

Oh Anno. Jesus, Rebuild was a bad idea. At least when he had no idea what the hell to do with NGE, he had to decide quickly instead of sitting down and spending two years hashing out a script that "makes sense".
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Postby Xard » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:27 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:Quite the contrary, Xard. This is only reinforcing again that he is as clueless as many have feared.


Handful of EGFers, hardcore fans to boot, are but a drop in the vast sea. Films have been commercially and critically very well received so far, especially in Japan which is the market that actually matters. Using word "many" here is unwarranted.

Now having said that, don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying the way Anno decided to resolve and/or handle these issues was the correct one or even good. I simply ment that these interviews reveal that he still knows the ins and outs of his craft, can analyze and dissect the production and products to pieces, find out problematic parts etc.

In other words Anno does "know" what he is doing. But there's difference between knowing and doing, and it's entirely another matter whether Anno actually managed to utilize this knowledge to full potential. I'm not here to debate that.
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Postby SaltyJoe » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:31 am

Once again, many thanks to Number-kun! I hope he won't be discouraged by the reactions posted in response to the various interview segments from keeping on translating them.

With that said:

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:I wanted the difference following [Asuka's] disappearance to be as large as I could make it.

Wow. Fail much?

However, Part C is practically a story centered around Asuka, right?

I wonder who Anno is trying to convince here: the interviewer or himself?

So, in order that the audience would not forget [Shinji], the scene where he listens to the radio while studying was afterwards added.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure if it weren't for that scene, everyone in the audience would have been like "Huh? Who's that kid? Is he important?" when Shinji reappeared.

God, it's like Anno is unable to detach himself from his story, even in the slightest. If he thinks the script makes sense he will naturally assume that it will make sense to anybody who watches the movie.
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Postby Xard » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:58 am

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:Once again, many thanks to Number-kun! I hope he won't be discouraged by the reactions posted in response to the various interview segments from keeping on translating them.


By now he must be used to certain users interprepting every new tidbit in most negative light possible.
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
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Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby symbv » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:22 am

Thanks 1731298478 for the translation. I don't really have much to add/change. All I see are only translation preference differences which I don't think I should dwell on here -- Just think perhaps I can help clarify the following bits...


---そこは一石二鳥みたいな感じで、アスカの3号機事件にも大きな影響を与えたという印象でした。
--- I feel like you killed two birds with one stone there, and I had the impression that Asuka's incident with Unit-03 also made a great impact.

> This is the only part of translation I cannot agree with. The "great impact" is the other way round. My translation:
I feel like you killed two birds with one stone there, and I had the impression that that also had a big impact to Asuka's incident with Unit 03.

とにかく映画で一本二時間くらいだと、変化の幅は大きい方がお客さんに伝わりやすくていいと思うんです。3号機事件をアスカにとってのクライマックスと設定し、彼女が舞台から消える直前を感情のピークとして、消えた後との落差をできるだけ大きくしたかったんです。ひとりで対処できなかった落下使徒戦をキカッケに、少しずつ解放されていって、最後にミサトという他人に初めて心情を吐露する。しかしまあ、ここを盛り上げるために、いろいろと話を考えて持っていくのは大変でした。主人公ではないので、ウエイトのバランスもあったし。けど、Cパートはほとんど、アスカ中心の話ですね。
In any case, in a film, as you only have about two hours for a single part, I think that significant changes are good as they are more easily conveyed to the audience. I established the Unit-03 incident as the climax for Asuka, and, with the moment right before she disappears from the stage being the emotional peak, I wanted the difference following her disappearance to be as large as I could make it. With the impetus provided by the battle with the falling angel which she could not deal with alone, she is "liberated" little by little, and in the end she expresses her feelings for the first time to an "other," Misato. But... there was a difficulty concerning the various stories I had thought up in order to intensify this [climax]. [Asuka is] not the main character, so there was [the problem of] the balance of weight, and so on. However, Part C is practically a story centered around Asuka, right?

> 大変 does not seem to indicate difficulty here, it is more like tedious and troublesome, but I guess it is not that off either.... and I would interpret キカッケに as "the trigger point, starting point" instead of "impetus provided".
Also the last part, perhaps ", right?" is not necessary as the Japanese text reads like a statement by Anno instead of a rhetorical question.
And 一本 is the counter for 映画 so here 一本 is one film (but I guess it can be argued that in NME one film is one "part" of the series so I guess it is not inaccurate here).

I wonder if I can translate the text like the following:

In any case for movie if one film lasts around 2 hours, I think bigger extent of changes are better for conveying [messages] to the audience. I set the Unit-03 incident as the climax for Asuka, and with her emotion peak being the moment right before she disappeared from the stage I wanted to make the gap between this and [the part] after her disappearance as big as possible. Starting form the falling angle battle which she could not deal with by herself, she got liberated little by little, and at last she laid bare her feelings for the first time to other people which was Misato. But, well, it was hard work to think up and bring about various stories in order to liven things up here. [She is] not the protagonist, and then there is also the weighting balance. That said, Part C is almost a story with Asuka as center.



=====

Reading this part of interview confirms to me that NME should be considered as standalone and not compared with the TV series. A lot of consideration was put into making the story and the characters to be able to stand on their own in the movies, although the link to the old series is still usually what concerned Anno most.

And again squeezing the whole story of the series into a couple of movies is never easy, as we can see here. It always involve substantial changes including the character settings and relationship. Recently we have 2 cour of Macross Frontier tv series adapted into 2 movies and I think the adaptation was successful and one key is by making LOTS OF CHANGES in almost everything while keeping the core messages same. I believe for Eva to succeed as standalone movie series, similar substantial changes will be needed.

It also convinced me that it may make sense to change Asuka's name. Cutting Kaji, making her friendless and isolated, only knowing Misato all make her quite different from the Asuka in the TV series. Better to set the expectation that she is a (somewhat) different character by having her name changed (somewhat).
Last edited by symbv on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:32 am

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:I wonder who Anno is trying to convince here: the interviewer or himself?


The last two paragraphs weren't attributed to Anno... Were they the interviewer? Granted, it probably is Anno, but I was somewhat confused on that.

Also: Anno doesn't even know we exist and when it comes to people criticizing the films, he could probably care less/knows that people are going to think whatever they want to think. At the very least, Anno mentioned that he wants the films to be viewed as a whole work so people shouldn't judge it right away (when either 1.0 or 2.0 won or were nominated for an award). I'm terrible at citing EGF sources, yes, but this is something I believe NaveryW brought up in one of the threads in this subforum.

Edit: Fixed typos and adding a few things that popped into my head.
Last edited by Sailor Star Dust on Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby symbv » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:35 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:The last two paragraphs weren't attributed to Anno... Were they the interviewer? Granted, it probably is Anno, but I was somewhat confused on that.


No, I think the Anno's reply was made up of 3 paragraphs and so only the first paragraph carried his name.

I have made some suggestion regarding the translation of that bit in my post above.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:45 pm

Number-kun: You're probably going to need those missing two pages at some point... I need to stop fidgeting and find those scans for you.

+[Arbitrarily chosen value] to Xard's replies.

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Postby 1731298478 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:44 pm

Thanks very much, symbv, for the corrections!!! I added the translations you suggested to the original post.

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:The last two paragraphs weren't attributed to Anno... Were they the interviewer? Granted, it probably is Anno, but I was somewhat confused on that.

View Original Postsymbv wrote:No, I think the Anno's reply was made up of 3 paragraphs and so only the first paragraph carried his name.

That's right, the last 3 paragraphs are Anno.

There is one thing I think is a little bit unusual in Anno's comments about Asuka: he seems to take the exact opposite approach to Kaworu. That is, he seems to make Kaworu's impact depend completely on the audience already knowing who he is. Maybe he thought that non-Eva fans would be more familiar with Kaworu than the other characters? Well, I am sure he has some intentions he won't openly reveal.

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Postby Xard » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:46 pm

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:That is, he seems to make Kaworu's impact depend completely on the audience already knowing who he is. Maybe he thought that non-Eva fans would be more familiar with Kaworu than the other characters?


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Postby Warren Peace » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:16 am

ANNO SAYS STUFF, MAKES EVERYONE FEEL VINDICATED IN THEIR VIEWPOINT NO MATTER WHAT IT IS. NEWS AT ELEVEN!

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:12 am

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:ANNO SAYS STUFF, MAKES EVERYONE FEEL VINDICATED IN THEIR VIEWPOINT NO MATTER WHAT IT IS.

Religion and fandom aren't all that different, after all.

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:54 pm

View Original Postgwern wrote:'be close'? zomgwtf, 2 cryptic lines is not close!


The cryptic lines imply that he has known her for a while and convey his opinion of her - he calls her a "troublemaker", is in awe of her determination ("She triggered the self-destruct mechanism just like that...") but feels sorry for using a kid a pilot. Apparently, they seem to have agreed on some plan.
("to leave that kind of thing in the hand of a teenaged girl...")
Mari herself, of course, sees her alliance with him as one of convenience/necessity
("I don't like working with adults to reach my goals", also, she just says "Adults" rather than using Kaji's name. )

The most important bit here is, of course, that Anno discribes Asuka's developement as a positive one and discribes the phone scene as "revealing her honest feelings for the first time" and her developement as "liberation."
That should silence those who thought it was ironic/ going in the wrong direction.


And ppl, the feeling of the whole thing DID dramatically change after Asuka left, it was, just like the original bardiel incident, the end of the halcyon days. Before, everything appeared to be going uphill. Afterwards, everything is in shards, that whole space where the school children peacefully interacted with each other no longer exists, it's a war situation.
Just LOOK at the scene where Shinji leaves, and how DULL the colors in Misato's apparment are, how we are shown, more than anything, the lifeless kitchen and Asuka's Empty room, with the doll in the decontamination box thing reminding us of her cruel fate.
Shinji basically goes "screw it all!" from that moment onwards...

Also, THANKS a lot NUMBER-KUN, YOU ARE OUR HERO!
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Postby gwern » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:32 pm

Kendrix, look at the detailed parsing and retrospective interpretation you have to resort to. It is true, but it is not clear. (One could as easily parse the pronouns and conclude that they aren't 'close', that they are mutually using each other and are quite distant.)

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Postby Azathoth » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:10 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:And ppl, the feeling of the whole thing DID dramatically change after Asuka left, it was, just like the original bardiel incident, the end of the halcyon days. Before, everything appeared to be going uphill.


Bardiel actually doesn't appear in NGE until well into the descent. The mindfuck element has already been introduced with the ep14 Rei-poem, the "Nerv is evil" element has already been introduced with Kaji's spying in ep15, the same episode introduces the colossal breakdown in communication within the cast, and by episode 16, Ritsuko is plotting to blow up everything, Unit 01 is raging amid oceans of blood, Shinji despairs of living - we could practically be in EoE. Indeed, it's probably the sharpest consequence of the compressed pacing in NME that NGE's creeping descent is rendered instead as a jump off a cliff. And regardless of what Anno may think, no, it doesn't magically improve a story when tonal shifts are performed instantaneously.

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Just LOOK at the scene where Shinji leaves, and how DULL the colors in Misato's apparment are, how we are shown, more than anything, the lifeless kitchen and Asuka's Empty room, with the doll in the decontamination box thing reminding us of her cruel fate.


I don't really see a whole lot of sympathetic emotion from him in this scene; it's Misato who seems to actually care about the situation (although she also does set him up for his later idiocy by implying that it's all right for him not to care about the fate of humanity). It's not as if he's feeling sorry for Asuka here; as in his initial tantrum, he's angry that he had to be involved in the destruction of his happy little life. It's during Misato's monologue that we see Asuka's room, possessions, cutting-board; these things are on Misato's mind, not Shinji's. He has nothing to say about Asuka or even Rei. It's his dad he cares about.
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