Angels making contact with Adam

[Leighton]

I'm unclear on this fact from the evawiki on the Angel's version of Third Impact:

"Achieved by an Angel reuniting with Adam, being held in Tokyo-3"

Do they mean the physical Adam that is currently held in embryonic form?
If so, what would be the process?? - would the meeting/merging between an angel and Adam create a global anti-at field?

Isn't it the protection of Lilith that Nerv is worried about? The angels always descend towards Lilith as opposed to Adam don't they?

[Reichu]

The Angel section ought to mention Lilith, yeah. It does mention what would theoretically happen if an Angel made contact with Adam, though.

Like what happened during Second Impact where all life was erased in Antarctica (aside from Misato), presumably, an Angel reuniting with Adam will result in Adam generating a world-wide Anti A.T. Field, eliminating all Lilith-based life on the planet, from bacteria to humans. The result of Second Impact was what Fuyutsuki describes in Episode 12 as: "The South Pole, a world of death which permits no life to exist." Kaworu, in Episode 24, also mentions that "Because it's my destiny to continue to live even if it may result in the destruction of humanity", implying that his goal to reunite with Adam would cause the end of humanity.

[nomis1242]

I'm unclear on this fact from the evawiki on the Angel's version of Third Impact

Welcome a a minefield topic!!!

"Achieved by an Angel reuniting with Adam, being held in Tokyo-3"

Yeah, I really think this statement in the wiki needs a reference (there's a lot of stuff in the 3rd impact page that makes unsupported claims)

Do they mean the physical Adam that is currently held in embryonic form?
If so, what would be the process?? - would the meeting/merging between an angel and Adam create a global anti-at field?

I presume they mean the embryo, but it's possible that the Angels don't realise that Adam's soul is missing, so maybe they're in for a big letdown when they get the embryo.

Isn't it the protection of Lilith that Nerv is worried about? The angels always descend towards Lilith as opposed to Adam don't they?

2nd question 1st: Angels 1-5 are after Lilith, because Adam is somewhere else. Angel 6 is after the Adam's embryo. The rest, we can't tell because Adam and Lilith are both in Tokyo 3 from them on. And Kaworu is just confused (and confusing!).

As for Nerv being more concerned about Lilith than Adam, this goes back to whether angel + adam = 3rd impact. Classified Info says "Some of them were trying to access Lilith and reset all life...and some were trying to recover their progenitor Adam". Does this wording imply that adam+angel doesn't cause 3rd impact (eg some angels just wanted to hug their mum or something)??? I dunno.

Sorry, my reply is more questions but no real answers!

[Ornette]

Some of it may have come from the 3rd impact entry in the wiki:

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Classified_Information_%28Translation%29#Third_Impact

Though the layers of information doesn't really make it any less ambiguous.

[thewayneiac]

The main in-series source for this would be Ep. 19; Kaji flat out tells Shinji that an Angel contacting Adam would cause Third Impact.

[Jessemon]

The main in-series source for this would be Ep. 19; Kaji flat out tells Shinji that an Angel contacting Adam would cause Third Impact.

Well, the problem with Kaji is that he also tells Misato that Lilith is Adam. So either Kaji doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows, or he's just plain unreliable.

[A.T. Fish]

^He also delivers the Adam embryo to Gendo though, so maybe he was aware that Lilith wasn't Adam, making your second suggestion the most likely.

[Seele00TextOnly]

...

[Monk Ed]

Perhaps Adam simply can't be used by the Angels as an embryo. That would explain why it wasn't better guarded or looked after, and might also contribute to an explanation as to why Kaworu, after being told where it was, didn't head right for Gendo, knowing that he'd have no use for it.

After all, every Impact we see requires a big SOL body of some kind or another -- be it Adam, Lilith, or an Eva.

[nomis1242]

Some of it may have come from the 3rd impact entry in the wiki:

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Classified_Information_%28Translation%29#Third_Impact

Though the layers of information doesn't really make it any less ambiguous.

Thanks. Yeah all the qualifiers ("Nerv's personnel are told that...", "It is thought that...", "The alleged reality...") means the Classified Info text for 3rd Impact isn't very helpful.

[Reichu]

Thanks. Yeah all the qualifiers ("Nerv's personnel are told that...", "It is thought that...", "The alleged reality...") means the Classified Info text for 3rd Impact isn't very helpful.

Qualifiers are a pervasive feature of NGE-related literature. Is this just a stylistic thing, or does it mean that the writers aren't even sure? I have no idea. But even in the show, we get similar kinds of statements that end having to be elevated to fact since they're never contradicted and no other information is ever provided.

[rhfxz1s]

Pardon me if this is a silly question, but why didn't Third Impact occur when the Angels made contact with the Evangelions? With the exception of Unit-01, aren't they clones of Adam? Is it because they have human souls inside of them?

[Jessemon]

Pardon me if this is a silly question, but why didn't Third Impact occur when the Angels made contact with the Evangelions? With the exception of Unit-01, aren't they clones of Adam? Is it because they have human souls inside of them?

I think it's a combination of the fact they are clones (so they aren't actually Adam), and the fact that they don't have Adam's soul either. Of course, I could be wrong about the second part, because Adam's physical form (the embryo) doesn't have it's soul for entire series, yet Gendo and Co. are still worried about the angels causing 3rd impact.

[AshPhoenix]

I don't think the clone thing matters, because Seele was still able to initiate 3I with Unit-01, which was a clone of Lilith.

[Reichu]

For whatever it's worth, Gendo et al. do get worried enough to sortie Eva-01 when that big pile of Angels grows out of Eva-00's back. (This thread asked about what might have eventually happened, but it didn't seem to really get anywhere.)

I don't think the clone thing matters, because Seele was still able to initiate 3I with Unit-01, which was a clone of Lilith.

I think they were doing special shit to circumvent the fact that Lilith couldn't be used for their purposes. Would Angels be able to use Eva-01 for theirs, without being similarly "prepared"? I dunno. This is one reason why I wonder what would have happened if Armisael was allowed to have her way with both Evas.

[AshPhoenix]

I think they were doing special shit to circumvent the fact that Lilith couldn't be used for their purposes.

Or maybe it had to do with the fact that Unit-01 had absorbed the S2 organ...either way, I agree with you in the matter that 3I had to have special circumstances to occur and couldn't be a simple "Angel touch Adam make explosion" situation.

This is one reason why I wonder what would have happened if Armisael was allowed to have her way with both Evas.

For that, I think it would be necessary to know what exactly the Angel Tower was, and what Armisael's goals were. One can only [s]fanwank[/s] wonder...

[rhfxz1s]

I don't think the clone thing matters, because Seele was still able to initiate 3I with Unit-01, which was a clone of Lilith.

That's not the same 3I though. The Angel's version would eradicate all Lilith based life, while SEELE's version simply eradicated the AT fields. Also, that version of 3I involved the fusion of Adam and Lilith, not the contact of Angel and Adam.

[AshPhoenix]

The Angel's version would eradicate all Lilith based life, while SEELE's version simply eradicated the AT fields.

It may not have the same result, but it's the same basic concept: the destruction of all Lilith-based AT Fields. I think the only difference is what happens to those released souls (i.e, in Seele's version, the souls were collected in the Black Moon, whereas in the Angels' version, the souls would be destroyed/sent to the afterlife or whatever).

Also, that version of 3I involved the fusion of Adam and Lilith, not the contact of Angel and Adam.

Yes, but it was still accomplished with a Lilith-"based" Eva-01, suggesting that there can be variation in 3I. Unless we could actually know what an Angel's 3I is like, we can't compare/contrast the two, so for simplicity's sake I'm assuming that there would be the same basic process going on both ways: an Anti-AT Field appears (whether it is from an Adam-Lilith amalgamation or simply Adam) and tears down the AT Fields of Lilith-based organisms, thus releasing their souls. And as I said before, the difference would be in what happens to their souls. It seems to me that Seele's 3I was different from the Angels' only that Lilith was mixed in with all of the stuff going on (i.e, if Adam hadn't fused with Lilith or if an Adam-based being had been used rather than Eva-01, the end result would still be destruction of all Lilith-based lifeforms).

[KogareruAsuka]

Ok... this may sound a bit silly... but isn't the Soul of Adam inside Kaworu?
Obviously the soul of Adam isn't going to trigger 3I by fusing with a lilin based body... but what is Adam going to do by reaching....Adam? Become GNK? Surely if that was the case- a "whole" Adam would have fared a little better with Misato's old man in the Antarctic... ie. 2I = bye bye ALL Lilim, not broken- embryonic Adam... so what would happen if he reached Lilith? The same thing? bye bye Ducks, Birds, Bees, Trees and Shinjis? And why not just use Eva 01? Seele did...

Meh... I've had a few beers and it's very late, so maybe my brain isn't working properly right now... will have a think about what I'm trying to say and hopefully come up with something coherent!

[Eva Yojimbo]

Ok... this may sound a bit silly... but isn't the Soul of Adam inside Kaworu?

Yes.

but what is Adam going to do by reaching....Adam? Become GNK?

That's most likely. It seems an "impact" takes a lot out of a seed (note GNR's disintegration in EoE) so my theory is that they need that much mass of PWM to carry it out.

Surely if that was the case- a "whole" Adam would have fared a little better with Misato's old man in the Antarctic... ie. 2I = bye bye ALL Lilim, not broken- embryonic Adam... so what would happen if he reached Lilith?

I'm not quite sure what you're saying/asking here...