why the "get out of here if you watch it dubbed"

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why the "get out of here if you watch it dubbed"

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Postby ianthegamer » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:23 am

Seriously? Why make a big deal. your getting the same imagery and for the most part the same lines either way. Your not getting it any better by watching it dubbed and reading subs. Your missing a lot in that too. Learn the language and than talk but if your reading subs or watching dubs your in the same boat.

just saying no reason to think your better for it. i for one prefer dubbed since i grew up with the dubbed on VHS. i def love the emotion in the original versions(especially the rebuild series) but im def not missing out either way. Cant you guys even see that? Why ridicule amongst your supposed kind(eva/anime community)? :huggles:

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Postby child of Lilith » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:39 am

Because people like to disagree. It's as simple as that. I personality couldn't care less how people decided to watch their anime, as long as they are enjoying it I don't see any reason to complain.
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Re: why the "get out of here if you watch it dubbed&quo

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Postby Dr. Nick » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:42 am

View Original Postianthegamer wrote:Why ridicule amongst your supposed kind(eva/anime community)? :huggles:


It's just a silly, pointless meme. Sub vs dub debates have been mostly irrelevant ever since the rise of the DVD format.

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Re: why the "get out of here if you watch it dubbed&quo

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:43 am

View Original Postianthegamer wrote:...and for the most part the same lines either way. Your not getting it any better by watching it dubbed and reading subs.

While I disagree with the "SUBS OR GTFO" attitude, you are mistaken. There are quite a few things that the dub changes. Sometimes the tone of entire scenes. My favorite example is in episode 18. They re-contextualize an entire scene by adding slapstick dialogue. My disregard for the dub is not even qualitative at this point. I want to watch Evangelion, I don't want to watch an abstraction.
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Postby oOoOoOo » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:03 am

The "GET THE FUCK OUT" reaction could also be due to art school snobbishness. Compare the Disney dub of any Ghibli movie with the Eva dub. Whereas Disney uses professional actors, the Eva dub uses amateurs. The quality in acting is quite apparent. Very few anime properties get a Disney-quality dub. Probably the big reason I watch the sub versions is because the sound of the voicework doesn't offend my ears. I don't know what they're saying, but most communication is conveyed with tone of voice and nonverbal stuff anyway.

Watch this video comparing the male and female voice actors of the protagonist in Mass Effect 2. The male is basically every English anime dub ever. It is the difference between good acting and bad acting.

Here's a thread discussing the differences between dub and sub versions of Eva: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=3278

Here's an epic super-long thread where people discuss their preferences: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=521
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Postby Aozora » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:07 am

I prefer to watch it in Japanese, subbed or not. Partly for language learning reasons, partly because I much prefer the original voices.

Is it accurate to say that people who defend dubs tend to have started with the dub? I find I'm more lenient with dub that I watched when I was younger and didn't have access to anything else.

I also find subs have their share of inaccuracies too. Sometimes when I'm watching anime with someone I have to do some commentary when the subs are actually messing with the meaning. Whatever version of Rebuild 1.0 I have on my computer is really bad for this; at times the subs are the exact opposite of what's being said! A pet peeve of mine is how people here often quote from the Literal Translation Project (like it's authoratative). I don't think it's a very good translation at all...

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Postby oOoOoOo » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:33 am

View Original PostAozora wrote:Is it accurate to say that people who defend dubs tend to have started with the dub?

I actually saw the Evangelion dub first, and I wasn't a big anime fan at the time. (I'm now thoroughly addicted.) The second time I watched the sub version just to see what the Japanese was like and I found I became far more sympathetic to Shinji and Asuka. But that's an interesting theory. I don't know if anyone's done a poll on it, but it'd be curious to see the results.
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Postby DevRei17 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:45 am

I started out with the sub for the first three episodes but switched back to the dub (I was still primarily a dub guy at the time.) As much as I loved the characters and story, I felt something was off with the dub. On the second viewing I switched to Japanese and boy was it a major difference (This was also the final straw and made me a sub only guy).
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:54 pm

View Original PostAozora wrote:I prefer to watch it in Japanese, subbed or not. Partly for language learning reasons, partly because I much prefer the original voices.


Exact same reasons here.

For what it's worth, I don't necessarily hate dubs. If there's some anime on TV then I don't mind watching the dub (since I have no other options anyway). Or say, if it's a Studio Ghibli dub. It's just generally speaking, most but not all anime dubs tend to be low-quality, so when I have a choice, I prefer subbed.

If people prefer watching their shows dubbed versus subbed, that's their call of course.

I also find subs have their share of inaccuracies too. Sometimes when I'm watching anime with someone I have to do some commentary when the subs are actually messing with the meaning. Whatever version of Rebuild 1.0 I have on my computer is really bad for this; at times the subs are the exact opposite of what's being said! A pet peeve of mine is how people here often quote from the Literal Translation Project (like it's authoritative). I don't think it's a very good translation at all...


Sounds like your 1.01 (or 1.11) fansub (I'm assuming) is a bad translation, IIRC Nyoron fansub was pretty awful and fell into "saying the exact opposite of what was there" category.

But yeah, I agree completely that subtitles can fall into the same translation issues that dubs can with scripts. Sometimes fansubs can be better than an actual company's translation, sometimes fansubs can be worse. It just really depends I guess.
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Postby TehDonutKing » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:32 pm

I prefer dubbed in some lines, subbed in others. As for the most part, I prefer subs. The only exceptions to the rule is Funimation's One Piece and Death Note. I will usually settle for either, unless the voice acting is terrible, or the dub is edited beyond the occasional woolseyism.
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Postby C.A.P. » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:41 pm

So I'm assuming there's no love for "Cowboy Bebop"'s dub around these parts.
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Postby Sachi » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:45 pm

View Original PostC.A.P. wrote:So I'm assuming there's no love for "Cowboy Bebop"'s dub around these parts.

Cowboy Bebop's dub is pretty good, but there's no beating Wakamoto voicing Vicious.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:07 pm

View Original PostC.A.P. wrote:So I'm assuming there's no love for "Cowboy Bebop"'s dub around these parts.

That, and Baccano, is the only anime where I can listen to either dubed or subbed. And eve then there's no beating Ed's Japanese voice in Bebop. And I'm kind of a fan of Megumi Hayashibara anyway. (Faye Valintine, Rei Ayanami, Paprika...) Again, it's hard for me to give props to any of the creative hands that were a part of the anime if I'm listening to all the other hands that touched it on it's way to the States.

Example: You can theoretically listen to the French or Spanish dub of The Dark Knight, and still get a lot of Heath Ledger's original performance. Sure, you don't have his voice, but you still have his appearance and his physical performance, so you can still see why director Christopher Nolan made the creative decision to cast Heath Ledger for the role of the Joker. You don't get the full effect, but parts of it are still there.

But I can't tell why Hideaki Anno made the creative decision to cast Megumi Hayashibara as Rei Ayanami in Neon Genesis Evangelion if all I'm hearing is Amanda Winn-Lee covering the character (or whoever they have in the new film franchise). Any and all creative reasoning the director had behind that casting decision is completely and utterly gone when it comes to animation dubs, so I can't comment on the director's casting decisions, which is a large part of any visual performing art, animated or live-action.

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Postby DevRei17 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:29 pm

View Original PostC.A.P. wrote:So I'm assuming there's no love for "Cowboy Bebop"'s dub around these parts.

Koichi Yamadera > Steve Blum
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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:29 pm

what Miss Opheilia and EM said, even though Spike Spencer, Allison Keith and (sometimes) Tiffany Grant were good, none hold a candle to the original seiyūs, especially Megumi Ogata's Shinji and that damn SCREAM, maybe the greatest scream EVAR recorded for playback

it's not that I do not think dubbing an anime in something other than moonspeak is impossible, but with the exceptions of Disney's dubs of Miyazaki's stuff and just maybe Cowboy Bebop, R1/Anglophonic anime businesses do not put much serious work into dubbing
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Postby tomrule123 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:29 pm

Well, you do have a point. It all comes down to opinion. Some people prefer the original language while others prefer to hear it in their language. As long as the dub is true to the original in terms of acting and story, I can tolerate it. (You won't be hearing my complaints about the dub... in this post.)

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Postby Clover » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:55 pm

View Original PostDevRei17 wrote:Koichi Yamadera > Steve Blum
It's hard to be a man who voices Spike Spiegel and Donald Duck.


You know why they call them seiyuus?
Baccano, Cowboy Bebop, Cromartie High School, Black Lagoon, Death note, FMA, and even Code Geass have better ACTORS than the original Japanese "seiyuus"

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Postby Cody MacArthur Fett » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:29 pm

View Original PostClover wrote:You know why they call them seiyuus?
Baccano, Cowboy Bebop, Cromartie High School, Black Lagoon, Death note, FMA, and even Code Geass have better ACTORS than the original Japanese "seiyuus"

I don't call them seiyuus. I call them actors, because at the end of the day that's what they're doing, they're playing a part in a play and they're trying to convince people to willingly suspend their disbelief and follow a story.

As to the topic: as you might have guessed, there's not a lot of love lost for dubs on EvaGeeks, but while people will complain for months on end about how terrible dubs are I've never seen someone here degrade another as being sub-human because they prefer the dub of a show. Personally though, I absolutely love dubs (especially German dubs, which is a little odd), and will often find myself longing for days past when a company wouldn't just record all new voices for dubs, but a completely new soundtrack and even some new in show text as well. Unfortunately though, the already limited anime fandom in the West has turned hostile to dubs over recent years, and I fear that dubbing is becoming a lost art that will only ever be used in the publications of extremely popular properties like Dragonball or Naruto (or Heroman, when it gets released in the states).
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Postby DevRei17 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:58 pm

View Original PostClover wrote:You know why they call them seiyuus?
Baccano, Cowboy Bebop, Cromartie High School, Black Lagoon, Death note, FMA, and even Code Geass have better ACTORS than the original Japanese "seiyuus"

:huh:
What does this have to do with me preferring Yamadera?
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Postby Xard » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:50 am

watching dubs implies that you're uncultured, lazy amerifag

so scorning can't be helped
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