Evangelion 2.0 CRC: Tsurumaki Interview

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Evangelion 2.0 CRC: Tsurumaki Interview

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Postby 1731298478 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:17 am

[Original Thread]

Okay, here are parts four and five of the Tsurumaki interview. Hopefully parts six and seven will be up in the near future. After that I'll probably start doing the first three parts, which are also interesting, and after that start looking at the second half of the interview.

Many thanks again to Reichu, who provided these scans during an extremely busy and stressful time of the year!

About the current translation... where I felt uncertain, I added footnotes with the original Japanese. In a couple of places I couldn't figure out any satisfying rendition with certainty, so I just left the Japanese as it was. None of those instances contain crucial information, but tend to just reinforce what's being said in the context. I would very much appreciate corrections or suggestions for the translation! If you would like to look at the original Japanese interview, please PM me!! ^^

The CRC 2.0 Tsurumaki interview is actually, I believe, a revised and expanded version of an interview included in the original Eva 2.0 theatrical program, including material from an additional, later interview.

---

"変化それ自体を映画の構造に"
"[Incorporating] change itself into the structure of the film"

--- Setting Mari aside, having Asuka pilot Unit-03 was a major change in "Break." How was this decision made?

Tsurumaki: Just as with Mari, we wanted Asuka to be signficantly involved in the story. Since we decided to make the new films we've somehow felt misgivings [about Asuka?]. When we [developed] the plot there were many scenes and dialogues involving Asuka, but we weren't able to assign her a role in the story. She didn't decisively impact Shinji, Rei, or the others. To say it plainly, we had the feeling that she was becoming something like a character who only "made noise" at the side. Asuka is a crucial character, so we wanted to involve her more in the story. She's a popular character, so we hated the idea of her appearing as "side entertainment."

--- So how did she become linked with the Unit-03 sequence?

Tsurumaki: Sadamoto-san's advice was important. There was an initial conversation where he made the point that, "among Kaworu, Touji, and Asuka, you will not be able to sufficiently develop more than two of them, probably only one." Because he had carefully considered his experiences putting together the manga , I placed great weight on his opinion.

--- In actuality, the story of Touji and Unit-03 remained in the manga version, right?

Tsurumaki: Yeah. With a manga, in a way, you have a great deal of freedom. For example, you could use an entire volume of the manga just for Episode 18 of the TV series, and it should be okay. I myself really liked Touji's episode; I think it was good in that it broadened the scope of the series, and so I understand Sadamoto-san closely following the TV version in his manga. However, because a film has to develop a "flow" within a limited amount of time, we wouldn't have the space to closely develop three characters in "Break." I could predict that, when we positioned the TV series' Unit-03 incident as a crucial, climactic episode, we would have no choice but to abandon portraying Asuka [as a major character]. If that happened Asuka's role in the plot would completely vanish. Moreover, after the Unit-03 incident, even the scenes where she does appear were bound to be reduced. If this is the case, could we simply replace Touji with Asuka? I tried proposing this to Anno-san, including Sadamoto-san's views on the matter.

--- It seems that, for the film, a great deal depended on this determination. So this plan was accepted with no objections?

Tsurumaki: No, there was considerable resistance from the staff. I think it's only natural. I myself was afraid of making such a change. Anno-san, as well, probably wasn't eager to do it at first. Nevertheless, the decision about the Unit-03 incident had to be made at an early stage.

--- I think the result of the plan to have Asuka pilot Unit-03 was a point where the new film impacts [the audience] with an impression of its character. I wondered if it was like a symbolic proclamation: "We are making something different."

Tsurumaki: When we began the new films, I wondered if we could actually create a film about the condition of "remaking" a work. Something like [what happened with] "Apocalypse Now." Filming in a jungle far from their home country, [hearing] a language they didn't understand, [following] a schedule with no end in sight, lacking sufficient funding; the very circumstances of a film crew making a movie about Vietnam strongly "synchronized" not only with the mental state of the soldiers who fought in Vietnam but with an America unable to withdraw from a war that had become a "quagmire."

So, I wondered if it was possible to develop something like "a film about the act itself of remaking the same thing over again." It seems like ... changes in the story would be stressful for the creators, to begin with, but also stressful for the characters in the film and for the viewing audience. I wondered if it was possible to make a film that took all of this into account.

--- This "metafictional" approach is really interesting. It's like a kind of "stress contest" between the creators and the viewers.

Tsurumaki: So, when I asked Anno-san "How would this be?" he immediately replied "No. That's useless." (Laughs) It's certainly a different direction than the "easy-to-understand entertainment" which we initially aimed at with the new films. So, at that time I just gave it up. Nevertheless, during the course of its creation "Break" certainly became like this.....

--- I felt like the various changes within the story came off as things that you had aimed at from the beginning. No doubt about it.

Tsurumaki: Despite people saying "Kaeru Kaeru," ["change, change"] in reality things stay the same as before and cannot be changed. It's the same with the viewers, who, on the one hand, come to the theater anticipating changes, and, on the other hand, are prepared in advance to complain if the direction of the changes doesn't suit them. This sender/reciever relationship exists naturally. Obviously, it's something that's both "inside" and "outside" the film, between the "story" and the "real world." [When we speak of] "film" [the word] also includes this [situation]. [? 1] As I wanted to aim for this at the start, I'm satisfied with the current state of the film, which I think is approaching that once- rejected and abandoned "metafictionality."

[? 1] 明らかに映画の中と外、物語と現実世界との間にそういう構造があるわけで。それも含めて「映画」なんですね。

--- It's a situation where there is a structural entanglement between something like reality and the creative situation or between something like the "film" and the "fan."

Tsurumaki: It's certainly "Eva-esque."

--- This is an amazingly thought-provoking account, in that it sheds light on what it means to transform Eva into "Break" / to "Break" Eva. [? 2]

[? 2] 「エヴァを『破』にするってそういうことか」という点で、ものすごく刺激的なお話ですね。

Tsurumaki: I don't know to what extent the audience will be really interested in it! (Laughs)

--- No, no, it's extraordinarily interesting. I think it's a valuable account.

Tsurumaki: Certainly this should be an interesting conversation for the "heavy" Eva fan. I myself also really like it. "To repeat," "to remake," "to want to change," "to have to change;" these things themselves become the themes of the story, and produce a new structure. There is the TV series, and there are the new movies; a reiteration. "To do it one more time": within this development, one says one wants to change but does not. It's as though one wants to change and yet one doesn't want to change.... this incredible structure developed, and I really like it.

"TVシリーズ第拾九話に潜んでいたマジック"
"The magic that was hidden in Episode 19"

--- Even though it's interesting, the actual work must naturally have been difficult.

Tsurumaki: There are different considerations if you are part of the creative process! (Laughs) If you have control of this "meta" way of creating [something], then things aren't too bad. At first I tried to exercise this control, but when I talked to Anno [I learned that] it was "useless," so I thought, well, there's nothing I can do. However, in this state where I had no control, [the film] became ["metafictional"] in the end. That's what happened.

--- So it took care of itself?

Tsurumaki: Yes. It's exactly a state where it's been left to take care of itself. (Laughs) I think that's probably terrible, right?

--- I'm sorry, but I think "deep" [濃い] fans of Eva will absolutely say "that's okay!" (Laughs) Their fear and mistrust of a "destination unknown" melts away, owing to their "preestablished harmony" [with the creators/franchise]. Moreover, if we watch the completed film, there's no sign of things that were produced by "giving up control." It's beyond the imagination of anyone to sense what you were able to bring about and what formed [accidentally]. Moreover, it seems as though everything was calculated from the beginning....... I think that, certainly, is "Eva-esque," and an extremely interesting phenomenon.

Tsurumaki: That's true, isn't it? Some time ago there was a topic of conversation dealing with the story structure of the TV series as being extremely fixed, extremely strong, and at the time I thought this way as well. I thought, "Anno-san, he's amazing!" Amazing to come up with this structure. [It's a structure where turning over one piece brings the entire series of connections to life. ?? 3] I thought it was amazing. However, when I started to work on "Break," and we looked at and analyzed the climactic scene, corresponding to episode 19 of the series, over and over again, then I came to realize that this was not entirely true. Everybody really loves episode 19, and it's said to be extremely well made, right?

[?? 3] 本当に一個ひっくり返したことが、いちいち全部後につながって生きてくる構造になっていて、すごいなと思ったわけです。

--- Yeah. In that [episode] we get a tightly compressed reiteration of the TV series up to that point; it's a technique that shows us a condensed version of the story of Shinji's growth, right?

Tsurumaki: Nevertheless, if you analyze the incredible "magic" happening there you will really understand. I don't mean to be impolite, but, to put it simply, everybody is being decieved. Even we, the staff, were deceived. そんな感じのことがあちこちにあるんですね。

--- What on earth do you mean by that?

Tsurumaki: The most important point is that Shinji says there that he won't pilot the Eva again. When Shinji decides to leave Tokyo-3, one moment he is seperating from Misato at Hakone-Yumoto station, and before we know it he is in an underground shelter in the Geofront. When the Angel attacks he is standing on a hill overlooking Tokyo-3 - which lies on the other side of a mountain from Hakone-Yumoto [*] - saying to himself "I won't pilot." But in the next scene he is in the underground shelter. While he is saying "I won't pilot" his body is gradually coming closer and closer to Unit-01. I didn't really realize this at the time. This also has to do with Masayuki's transcendental editing technique and the fact that "BANK" is frequently used. [**]

[*] See the geography here: http://punynari.wordpress.com/2010/05/23/english-hakone-instrumentality-map/ The mountain is listed there as "Mt. Daigatake."

[**] "BANK" is a script direction indicating the usage of pre-existing footage. It's used once, for example, in the 2.0 script as part of the directions for a brief flashback to the first film. Cf. Reichu here: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=194263&sid=f8d3fa467d0b1ab600884b091f345768

--- なんだか見覚えのシーンをパッパッと短くつないで 入れ子にしてあるから、よけい印象が強くなって見えるんですようね。

Tsurumaki: In addition, there is also the lack of information characteristic of TV Anime. For example, there is the sky in the background behind the character, but no information is given outside of that; is he on the top of a mountain? Is he inside the city? We don't really know. [*] We are gradually disoriented by means of an accumulation of indeterminacies.

[*] The shot Tsurumaki is referring to occurs somewhere around 11:23-11:30 in episode 19.

--- Certainly, owing to the "magic" of the television image, we have the impression that, even though Shinji is going [somewhere] with all his might, we don't know where he is.

Tsurumaki: But if we observe carefully, we feel confused. Even at that [earlier] time I realized that much. My interpretation was that, even though Shinji was saying he wouldn't pilot, he also understood that he had to pilot. As for his saying "I won't pilot," I believed that if he wasn't saying it he would certainly pilot. [? 4] As a result, although he was saying "I won't pilot, I won't pilot," his body was going towards the centre of the battle. Even though he came as far the Geofront, where the battle was raging, he was still saying "I won't pilot, I won't pilot." Then Unit-02's head falls down, and Unit-00 is damaged, and so on; and when [Shinji] goes outside Kaji is there, and they have a famous conversation. Finally, Shinji gives up and pilots, deciding that, "as I thought, I have to pilot... I knew it, but it was just as I expected." That sort of development was how I interpreted things.

[? 4] だから 「乗らないぞ」と言うのは、そうしないと乗ってしまうからだと。

--- That's also my interpretation, and, I think, the interpretation of countless viewers....

Tsurumaki: [There must be a] "however," right? When I was doing the storyboards for "Break," and went to confirm with Anno-san that portraying Shinji like this was good, I was emphatically told, "What are you talking about, Makki? This is completely wrong!" What a shock I received! (Laughs) Anno-san continues, "Shinji really doesn't want to pilot, and that's what he says." From my point of view Shinji's declaration "I won't pilot" was half a hate campaign against his father, a child and "da-da" type situation. It was the same as a child who had quarrelled with his father saying "If that's the case, I won't study!" Emotionally, Shinji doesn't want to pilot, but he understands that he has to. To that extent I had thought he was a "grown-up" character.

However, when I seriously thought over what Anno-san had said, I understood that Anno-san's Shinji is not like that. I understood that he was a character who, if he feels he doesn't want to pilot, absolutely will not pilot. Shinji is the exact opposite of what the conventional impression of him is. He is not cowardly and indecisive; he is obstinate and doesn't pay any mind to other people.

--- In short, a character who will not pilot, no matter what?

Tsurumaki: Exactly right. According to Anno-san, "He pilots because he wants to pilot, and as long as he doesn't want to pilot he won't pilot." But I remained unsatisfied. "[That would be acceptable if this were a trvial argument over something like studying. ???5] However, if he doesn't pilot Eva, humanity will be destroyed, Misato will be in great difficulties, Rei Ayanami will have to undertake a suicide attack, and so on; even if he knows this, will he still not pilot Eva?" When I again tried to ask Anno-san this, he replied, "Because Shinji is extremely angry there, his heart is closed and he doesn't notice those things."

[??? 5] 勉強みたいな些細な話ならまだいいけど、

When I was told that, I understood the irrational speech and conduct that could be sometimes seen in Anno-san! (Laughs) In short, he's someone who, once he starts to say he doesn't like something, absolutely will not budge. From my perspective, at such times Anno-san is obstinate to what feels like an abnormal extent.

I am the opposite. I truthfully dislike even doing this interview for the program. [?? 6] However, since Anno-san wouldn't do it, it seemed like someone had to..... I don't care one way or the other about the interview. (Laughs) [?? 7] But Anno-san, he's someone who sometimes displays an irrational obstinancy reminiscent of Shinji in Episode 19.

[?? 6] だってこのパンフのインタビューにしても本当は「嫌だな」って思ってる。

[?? 7] インタビューのことはどうでもいいんだけど(笑)、僕はそういう感じなんです。

All of this is just a guess, [? 8] but Anno-san has never in his life had the experience "I didn't want to do it, but I did it." If he did something, it was only because he had wanted to do it. For myself, there were many things I did because I wanted to do them, but just about as many things I didn't want to do, but did because I had no choice.

[? 8] これはあくまで想像ですけど、

--- It's generally the same for every working adult, right?

Tsurumaki: However, was Shinji really portrayed in episode 19 the way Anno-san said he was? No matter what, the question was there, but when I ask Masayuki-san, who was responsible for directing that episode, for confirmation, for one reason or another he doesn't give me a clear answer. As a result I wonder if he is changing the depiction of Shinji's character behind Anno-san's back. [? 9]

[? 9] だから、あれって庵野さんの目を盗んでシンジのキャラをかなり描き変えているんじゃないかと思うんですよ。

--- Isn't that an even more shocking discovery?

Tsurumaki: A reason that can explain why Shinji returned to the Geofront...... In short, in his heart Shinji believes that he has to pilot Eva so he goes of his own volition. Even if the truth is that Anno-san's script arrives at a different explanation, [the other] is easily inserted. If such things as Shinji's monologue alongside the voices of the evacuees, the stream of announcments on the public address system, and so on, are present, Anno-san will believe that "this is certainly following my script." However, Masayuki-san treats that skillfully, and then inserts an ambiguous depiction which could be taken a different way. As far as this is the case, Masayuki-san's directoral plan should have been fundamentally the same as my interpretation.

--- I've got it. It's that ambugity that is the main reason viewers have such sympathetic feelings for episode 19.

Tsurumaki: Right. To the extent they hold those feelings, Shinji is not obstinate. The impressions [produced by the episode] can be interpreted this way. [?? 10] I think Masayuki-san's words were something like, "It's this because that stupid Anno said so, but... " (Laughs). [?? 11] [I wondered if [Masayuki-san], like myself, wanted to avoid a definite conflict or rejection, and so, with a skillful deception, had things both ways. ??? 12] However, Masayuki-san's unique editing technique and film-like montages [映画的なモンタージュ] were accompanied by the lack of information peculiar to television; [the result is] something established through a perfect balance.

[?? 10] そう受け取れる 感じに仕上がっているわけです。

[?? 11] 摩砂雪さんの言い方は「いや庵野がさ、こう言ってたからこうしたんだけどさ。まあまあまあ」みたな感じでしたから(笑)。

[??? 12] これは僕のように決定的な対立や否定を生まないよう、相当うまくごまかして両立させたんじゃないかと。

--- This is a very interesting explanation. As a result, what the viewers finally see is left to the imagination of the viewers. So the viewers will reach the conclusion "I was able to see what I wanted to see."

Tsurumaki: Right. Precisely because the information provided in TV anime is slight, it's left up to the viewers. The technique depends upon this precondition. However, if we attempted to do the same thing with film-quality images, then that would absolutely lead to problems. I believed we couldn't achieve the same thing [in the film] using the technique from episode 19.
Last edited by 1731298478 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:13 am, edited 8 times in total.

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Postby child of Lilith » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:26 am

Thanks for all your hard work, 1731298478.
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Postby Nonoriri » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:12 am

:w00:

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Postby LiLi » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:59 am

:lol: Masayuki trolled Anno!

Thank you for your hard work, 1731!
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Postby Xard » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:25 am

So


a) metafictional angle is huge part of Rebuild and should be taken in consideration while discussing it. Slam dunk confirmed. It's always fun to hold a correct opinon. Suck it up, bitches

b) Stuff about ep 19's editing etc. was most interesting thing to me, being the filmfag that I am. I'm a bit disappoint in myself for not realizing the cleverness in construction back then.

c) Anno trolled Tsurumaki Masayuki trolled Anno trolls trolling trolls? lolwtf :lol:

Masayuki is such a mysterious fellow. I'd really want to know what he has to say.

Also, is Tsurumaki saying there was no Anno interview at all? ;___;
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
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And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
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Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:02 am

:applause: Thank you so much, Number-kun! I'll try to look at the Japanese sometime, just in case any ideas pop into my head. All this stuff must be working your brain raw~!

"Makki", haha. I've liked Tsurumaki ever since hearing him on the FLCL commentary tracks. It's like, he headed this utterly bizarre project, but he can talk and laugh about it in this totally cool, down-to-Earth manner. I wish I had the mad skills to gobble all his interviews up...

View Original PostXard wrote:Masayuki is such a mysterious fellow. I'd really want to know what he has to say.

Yeah, I'm going to try to get him scanned, as well. Eventually.

Also, is Tsurumaki saying there was no Anno interview at all? ;___;

The section of interview Number-kun posted was originally published in the 2.0 movie booklet, which Anno apparently didn't contribute to. There is an XBOX FUCKING HUEG Anno interview in 2.0 CRC, which I haven't sent to Number-kun yet for fear that his brain will asplode.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:23 am

View Original PostXard wrote:So


a) metafictional angle is huge part of Rebuild and should be taken in consideration while discussing it. Slam dunk confirmed. It's always fun to hold a correct opinon.


I told you, it's two parts of the same big work of art.
The trollmaster has been trolled...?
Or did he plan this to make it awesomer?
The show's production almost contains as many conspiracies as the show itself XD

Regarding the original ep 19, I interpreted it the way that Shinji REALLY didn't want it DESPITE the fact that Destiny was pointing with its big, red arrows...
It no 'resigning oneself to fate thing, it's always been a 'now I know why I do stuff' moment and I'd say that it is the same (only more obvious to make sure it isn't misunderstood again/lampshaded by Misato) in Rebuild.

Now that I've read this, I find this motive all over the Series; Episode 4, 20, 25... The point is that while Shinji wants to believe that he is in a hostile world that forces him to climb into a big, scary mecha, but in fact, he could have left at any given Moment - It's his own will that made him enter the EVA and live through these horrible fights over and over again, to get his father's praise, to stay in and protect the little world, the semblance of home he's established for himself - It's his own will that brought him to where he is and only his own will is what can get him out.

That attitude of Shinji's is truly lampshaded in both the series and Rebuild; ep 19 Misato says that she thinks that she saw his 'true self'; Rebuild Misato asks if he doesn't want to know about Rei and Asuka; He doesn't even ask about the very cause of his Anger (She just hinted that Shikinami is alive, but Shinji doesn't even ask. Yeah, Misato could still say something that would tie him to her world and he doesn't want that, nor does he want to face the consequences of him not fighthing and forcing his father to use an incontrolable alternative - Shinji himself would certainly have left the Entry Plug in one piece) He doesn't want to think about anything there, he just wants OUT.
He doesn't look at his own Hand soiled with Mari's blood (actually Unit 02's but who cares; The point is that that blood is a concequence of his actions - He could have joined the fight and protected her, almost a complete stranger that never did him any wrong and is being nice and understanding towards him in the face of the imminent apocalypse) because his heart is 'closed off' just like in the series; The normaly pretty nice Shinji has his sight clouded by his Daddy issues.
But then Mari helps him out of the shelter - So he can run away (!), after he left, she looks to the side sadly (knowing that helping him meant the end of the world - Oh, I want a Mari for myself!) and is surprised later after Shinji curbstombs Zeruel.
Mari doesn't pressure him, doesn't push him into any particular direction - she just shows him what he had been shutting his heart from - The destruction around him.
And it IS because Mari doesn't pressure him that Shinji realizes that he has he still has a drive within himself to pilot the damn EVA.
He isn't getting in there because he thinks he HAS TO, but because he WANTS TO.
He WANTS to save Rei.

I.E., Shinji Ikari is an incredible badass with an immense inner streght.
The problem is, he doesn't know because wants to be able to blame eventual mistakes on others cuz since he doesn't know about his awesomeness, he doesn't think he can do anything right.
Congratulations, Shinji. Rebuild itself has made me appreciate you and these interviews have made me bloody LOVE you.
If he won't budge, he won't budge, and if he wants his GF back, he gets her back. And the rest of the world can go fuck itself.
There's a few men that would go to hell for their loved ones (Gendo is such a badass, and he bestowed the badass genes upon his offspring), but Shinji is one of the few that would go to hell and BACK, ripping said loved ones right out of the underwold (see earlier enokido interview)

I want a Shinji now.
I'm sorry for ever seing you as a simple 'cute but whiny experiment to see what a show with a depressed protagonist is like', allmighthy Shinji-sama.
You're my fucking hero now.
Like it says in that awesome themesong of the awesome movies you're the awesome protagonist of, you still haven't realized your own beauty.
Good thing that Rei has realized it.


Thanks very much for the translations. Can't wait for the rest (and the Anno one) Keep up the awesome work.

Oh and "among Kaworu, Touji, and Asuka, you will not be able to sufficiently develop more than two of them, probably only one" - that means
a) they must've chosen Kaworu, tough they're TRYING to involve Asuka, it's not like they just didn't care.
b) No worry about Shinji and Rei, heh? This doesn't point towards Asuka/Shinji in future Movies :w00:
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Postby SaltyJoe » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:33 am

どうもあ7りがと, 1731 様!

View Original PostXard wrote:a) metafictional angle is huge part of Rebuild and should be taken in consideration while discussing it. Slam dunk confirmed. It's always fun to hold a correct opinon. Suck it up, bitches

Except that Tsurumaki basically confirmed that it wasn't an angle that was planned to be siginficant. Anno even dubbed getting into self reflectionism "useless". To wit: ignoring the meta angle and taking NME for what it is without tkaing NGE or the production of these movies into consideration is perfectly valid.

View Original PostReichu wrote:There is an XBOX FUCKING HUEG Anno interview in 2.0 CRC, which I haven't sent to Number-kun yet for fear that his brain will asplode.

I read it somewhere that it's 37 pages long. Is that true? I mean, that just sounds insane.
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Postby Xard » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:44 am

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:どうもあ7りがと, 1731 様!


Except that Tsurumaki basically confirmed that it wasn't an angle that was planned to be siginficant. Anno even dubbed getting into self reflectionism "useless". To wit: ignoring the meta angle and taking NME for what it is without tkaing NGE or the production of these movies into consideration is perfectly valid.


It's the end result that matters, as always. Not initial intentions. Of course Rebuild works without metalevels but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

of course ginve Rebuild's construction they were bound to be there, whether they wanted or not.

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:I read it somewhere that it's 37 pages long. Is that true? I mean, that just sounds insane.


oh shit.
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:55 am

F-UCK
37???!!!
This must be a blessing of the Gods!
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Postby SaltyJoe » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:00 am

View Original PostXard wrote:of course ginve Rebuild's construction they were bound to be there, whether they wanted or not.

That's true. A remake will have strong metafictional ties, simply by virtue of being a remake.

EDIT:
Am i the only one who's baffled by Tsurumaki declaring that he placed great stock on Sadamoto's opinion, just before noting that manga and movie have almost nothing in common as mediums? "I knew this guy who could make a bitching omlette, so i weighed in his opinions greatly when i started to make ravioli." ...what?
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Postby Ornette » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:15 pm

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:Am i the only one who's baffled by Tsurumaki declaring that he placed great stock on Sadamoto's opinion, just before noting that manga and movie have almost nothing in common as mediums? "I knew this guy who could make a bitching omlette, so i weighed in his opinions greatly when i started to make ravioli." ...what?

I think you may be missing the context that he's referring to Asuka. So the analogy would be more like: "I knew this guy who could make a bitching chorizo omelet, so I weighed in his opinions greatly when I started to make chorizo ravioli. Oh yeah, and Ravioli and Omelet are 2 different things."

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:01 pm

PS: I think Yui has that "DO NOT WANT!" character trait as well - Shinji got it from his Mom. We see it in the very Episode 19. Even if the End of the world is nearing, she WILL NOT cooperate before her kid is where she wants him.
Poor Shinji. Super sciencist badass parents, but he only got the worst genes XD
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Postby SaltyJoe » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:24 pm

View Original PostOrnette wrote:I think you may be missing the context that he's referring to Asuka.

But Sadamoto didn't gave any concrete advice on handling characters, as far as i can see. He just stated the obvious, that is, the movie will be tight in the time department. Then Tsurumaki relates that "since Sadamoto worked with Eva in a medium that is totally unrestricted by time concerns, i took his advice to heart when he addressed working with a medium that is heavily restrained for time". And then he speaks about why he thinks it was a wise decision to have Asuka in Eva-03. Eh, whatever, this is just nitpicking, i guess.
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Postby esselfortium » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:52 pm

Wow, this is possibly the most unbelievable interview yet. Let's see here...

When we [developed] the plot there were many scenes and dialogues involving Asuka, but we weren't able to assign her a role in the story. She didn't decisively impact Shinji, Rei, or the others.

Well, Tsurumaki, this is a surprisingly accurate assessment of the finished movie. None of her actions impact anyone else, and she spends most of the film not even talking to anyone.

And I see that Shinji and Rei were all along intended to be the main characters; an interesting departure from the show (where Rei was not even remotely a main character for 2/3rds of the series). This would've been fine if not for the next two quoted bits:

There was an initial conversation where he made the point that, "among Kaworu, Touji, and Asuka, you will not be able to sufficiently develop more than two of them, probably only one."

So, in early development, one of the original main characters was considered equal in importance to Shinji's basketball-playing redshirt friend and the angel boy who had 15 total minutes of screentime. Unbelievable.

I could predict that, when we positioned the TV series' Unit-03 incident as a crucial, climactic episode, we would have no choice but to abandon portraying Asuka [as a major character]. If that happened Asuka's role in the plot would completely vanish. Moreover, after the Unit-03 incident, even the scenes where she does appear were bound to be reduced. If this is the case, could we simply replace Touji with Asuka?

'We realized a plot point being considered for our movie was going to render a major character useless, and we didn't want to do that. But instead of taking our intentions of changing stuff to heart and writing a new plot around the cast to fit into a movie format, we stuffed her into the existing one and hoped for the best.'

If a character you want to include badly enough isn't going to work around a plot point, the plot point is easier to replace than the character is, especially when you know that it'd change the later parts of the plot either way. You can do any number of things with a character you want to make important, but they were dead-set on preserving what they already had, convincing themselves they were making sweeping and incredible changes, without bothering to alter the actual plot structure.

Put Shinji in Eva-03 if you absolutely have to keep that plot; do something really different and exciting, endanger the character that the film is obviously about and use it to stress Rei's and Asuka's relationships with him instead of making both their ultimate forms be the damsel in distress. Instead we just the same scene from the show with a different character endangered in a tube we barely see.

And somehow in spite of their conscious (albeit very shortsighted) attempt to try preventing her from becoming irrelevant as a character, most of Asuka's development scenes were cut completely from the film. I can't believe how lazy this is.

It seems that the decision for this movie to be about Rei drinking soup and Eva-03 happening was made early on, and everything else was written around it. Of course, the problem with how this turned out is the Khara writers' ever-stunning inability to reconcile "a female friend's life is placed in Shinji's hands" with "Shinji's dick is pointed at Rei like a homing missile".

--- So it took care of itself?

Tsurumaki: Yes. It's exactly a state where it's been left to take care of itself. (Laughs) I think that's probably terrible, right?

--- I'm sorry, but I think "deep" [濃い] fans of Eva will absolutely say "that's okay!" (Laughs) Their fear and mistrust of a "destination unknown" melts away, owing to their "preestablished harmony" [with the creators/franchise]. Moreover, if we watch the completed film, there's no sign of things that were produced by "giving up control." It's beyond the imagination of anyone to sense what you were able to bring about and what formed [accidentally]. Moreover, it seems as though everything was calculated from the beginning....... I think that, certainly, is "Eva-esque," and an extremely interesting phenomenon.

Tsurumaki: That's true, isn't it?

Here they shamelessly admit that they're completely aware their fans will accept anything thrown at them and think it was deep and intentional.

Yes, Tsurumaki, that's probably terrible. You got it. I can't believe they're shameless enough to actually publish this.

However, when I seriously thought over what Anno-san had said, I understood that Anno-san's Shinji is not like that. I understood that he was a character who, if he feels he doesn't want to pilot, absolutely will not pilot.
[...]
According to Anno-san, "He pilots because he wants to pilot, and as long as he doesn't want to pilot he won't pilot."

Anno apparently doesn't remember his own characters.

I'm eagerly awaiting the part where Anno says "I am the cheese, I am the best character on the show, I am better than both the salami and the bologna combined". At this rate, I'm not going to be surprised by it at all.

Wishing I had had the foresight to set up a Khara Interview Bingo board of all the theories and mean jokes that had been made about this film's development, because it'd be about filled up with bingo chips by this point.

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Postby NAveryW » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:56 pm

In our next installment, Anno discovers he was betrayed and sends in the χSDF to wipe out Tsurumaki and Masayuki.
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Postby Xard » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:19 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:So, in early development, one of the original main characters was considered equal in importance to Shinji's basketball-playing redshirt friend and the angel boy who had 15 total minutes of screentime. Unbelievable.



This is propably most honest essel has ever been for not liking Rebuild. lol.

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:'We realized a plot point being considered for our movie was going to render a major character useless, and we didn't want to do that. But instead of taking our intentions of changing stuff to heart and writing a new plot around the cast to fit into a movie format, we stuffed her into the existing one and hoped for the best.'


and it worked!

Making Asuka Eva-03's pilot still is one of the best things in Rebuild
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:22 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:Anno apparently doesn't remember his own characters.



How about... WE misunderstood them?

However, with these statements, it is clear that Shinji/Asuka is :guillotine:

If the makers considered it or Asuka an essential part of the Series, they'd kicked Rei out since her creepy fanboys are most happy with her just standing in the corner emotionlessly. She just exists to make a point about ambition fixated ppl and Shikinami serves that role just fine in my eyes.
Last edited by Kendrix on Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:25 pm

My cynicism continues to grow exponentially about this entire enterprise. What concerns and frameworks did they consider more paramount when going into this? Character and story? No, the interviews show this is secondary. The shuffling and handling of the characters were secondary to a few key factors that clearly took precedent.

1) New female pilot
2) New plugsuits for pilots
3) Recurring and new Eva's

So what we got first and foremost was a new female no one knew what to do with, the need to put the females in new costumes which necessitated shuffling the Eva's they pilot around between them, the existing Eva-03, and the new Eva-05 and Eva-06, as well as Beast Mode Eva-02 and God Mode Eva-01, all for toys.

All for money, all for toys. We know this must be the case because:

They didn't know what to do with the characters, at all. They had so many that they didn't know how in the world to treat them, yet they were still insistent on bringing in an additional one that they also had no idea about. They had to include the new Eva's and keep the old ones, and make modifications that would make more toys. All about merch, all about fanboy autism.

Yes, these concepts came from and factored into the original NGE, but they were not the overriding plot dictator. There was actual thought, vision, and meaning behind what occured in that show, even if it was written more or less episode-to-episode. Here the merchandising takes first writing priority. Same with the next film. What do we see in the previews? More Rei's in more clothes and shapes, another Eva, and a skipped Eva (07) that we can all only assume will at least make some appearance.

They don't know what they're doing beyond cashing in, and they don't care.
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Postby Xard » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:26 pm

I'm rather surprised anyone ever interprepted Shinji's behaviour in ep 19 in any other way than Anno intended. When I read that I went "uhh, isn't that obvious? lolfans"

Here they shamelessly admit that they're completely aware their fans will accept anything thrown at them and think it was deep and intentional.

Yes, Tsurumaki, that's probably terrible. You got it. I can't believe they're shameless enough to actually publish this.


Creating eva has always been pure chaos from original tv series to Death & Rebirth to End of Evangelion to Rebuild. The miracle of eva is how this "freeform jazz performance" (as Jimbo nicely characterized the work) works so damn well. And looks planned!

That's all Tsurumaki's saying: there isn't as much planning as it looks like.
Last edited by Xard on Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.


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