NAveryW wrote:Some of them are from Newtype articles that have been translated in their entirety.
Ah, I'll correct my translation in accordance with this.
[Books] Shizo/Parano
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If he said that Rei & Kaworu are something unconcious, that would mean that I was sorta right about the "we are the hope" dialogue - Maybe it was not just Shinji, but also Anno himself who worked out what Rei was meant to be...
There was certainly a change of attitude regarding Rei and Kaworu on the side of the creators - The barely appeared in the original, but were all over the place in following productions like EoE, Death and Rebirth or Rebuild.
She is certainly something that is foreign to Shinji, something that he doesn't get either... - and it would only make sense that she's "hope", something the protagonist, and probably their creator, did not really allow themselves in the beginning.
About Kaworu being the "Shadow" - this is also something I have recently thought of (tough before reading this), I kept pondering over one line of Shinji's(Who is, alongside Gendo, Anno's mini me. The relationship he has with his EVA is similar of that Anno has with his art - see that interview where he calls it his way of communicating, I think it was the one with the school children): "Somehow, he was like Rei. And like me."
I get how he's like Rei, but like Shinji? That made me think a lot. He appears to be Shinji's exact opposite: Very outgoing, able to read others like books, a very intellectually-oriented person that would die for ideals and ideas. But then again, the always smiling Kaworu who doesn't angst at all over his weird existance could also be called the exact oposite of the ever-frowning Rei, expecially the lifeless Rei III, without that taking away from their similarities. I'd also compare him to Mari, who is also a wise character who leads an "outside" existence with short, cryptic appearances, but is, in contrast to him, clearly human and shares her wisdom in very simple phrases rather than highly-philosophic reactions. And they were both created a bit after the rest of the cast.
But let's go back to the Shinji/Kaworu parallels: After a while, I worked out that they are actually very similar: They have the same hobbies (Music), are both somewhat philosophic/think about things, and they're also messiac figures/chosen ones. Also, they're both very indecisive, they aren't really comfortable with closing open doors - Just as Shinji is never quite sure whether he wants to pilot his EVA or not, Kaworu spends quite some time pondering whether he wants to destroy the earth or not. Also, Kaworu can't bring himself to commit suicide, just like Shinji. He had to ask his friend to finish him off, tough he had clearly surrendered.
I guess their similarities were what drew Kaworu to Shinji in the first place. Maybe he wanted to meet someone in a similar situation...
There was certainly a change of attitude regarding Rei and Kaworu on the side of the creators - The barely appeared in the original, but were all over the place in following productions like EoE, Death and Rebirth or Rebuild.
She is certainly something that is foreign to Shinji, something that he doesn't get either... - and it would only make sense that she's "hope", something the protagonist, and probably their creator, did not really allow themselves in the beginning.
About Kaworu being the "Shadow" - this is also something I have recently thought of (tough before reading this), I kept pondering over one line of Shinji's(Who is, alongside Gendo, Anno's mini me. The relationship he has with his EVA is similar of that Anno has with his art - see that interview where he calls it his way of communicating, I think it was the one with the school children): "Somehow, he was like Rei. And like me."
I get how he's like Rei, but like Shinji? That made me think a lot. He appears to be Shinji's exact opposite: Very outgoing, able to read others like books, a very intellectually-oriented person that would die for ideals and ideas. But then again, the always smiling Kaworu who doesn't angst at all over his weird existance could also be called the exact oposite of the ever-frowning Rei, expecially the lifeless Rei III, without that taking away from their similarities. I'd also compare him to Mari, who is also a wise character who leads an "outside" existence with short, cryptic appearances, but is, in contrast to him, clearly human and shares her wisdom in very simple phrases rather than highly-philosophic reactions. And they were both created a bit after the rest of the cast.
But let's go back to the Shinji/Kaworu parallels: After a while, I worked out that they are actually very similar: They have the same hobbies (Music), are both somewhat philosophic/think about things, and they're also messiac figures/chosen ones. Also, they're both very indecisive, they aren't really comfortable with closing open doors - Just as Shinji is never quite sure whether he wants to pilot his EVA or not, Kaworu spends quite some time pondering whether he wants to destroy the earth or not. Also, Kaworu can't bring himself to commit suicide, just like Shinji. He had to ask his friend to finish him off, tough he had clearly surrendered.
I guess their similarities were what drew Kaworu to Shinji in the first place. Maybe he wanted to meet someone in a similar situation...
I wanted to try harvesting the rice
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
Whew, Numbers-kun, slotting all these translations into my notes is pretty tough! I've tried to compile the S/P stuff into something sensible: http://www.gwern.net/otaku#schizoprano
(The other translations are obviously in there too, just scattered around.)
I'm a little confused then - was there a test audience or not as NAveryW claims?
We're never going to get this damn interview translated in its entirety are we? Your snippet now represents the fourth translation source for it; I had to give up on a one-sentence description of sourcing and resort to a numbered list to keep things straight. :)
That's a good observation! I remembered Tsuribe's essay, but only his EoE assessment:
Well, from the CRC:
On a side-note, as time passes and I see more quotes from Azuma's _Database Animals_, I become more impressed with it. I have a scan of it, but are there (searchable) ebooks available anywhere? Would it be a worthwhile project to make a good ebook of it like I did with _The Notenki Memoirs_?
(The other translations are obviously in there too, just scattered around.)
I think this is only a fan interpretation (by "Yuuto"), based upon Anno's comment in the Schizo/Parano interviews that "creation is a masturbation show." Aside from that quote, which I think is the title of one of the chapters of Schizo, I don't think there's any real information.
I'm a little confused then - was there a test audience or not as NAveryW claims?
but second part seems to be from Newtype here http://home.gamer.com.tw/creationDetail.php?sn=863335
We're never going to get this damn interview translated in its entirety are we? Your snippet now represents the fourth translation source for it; I had to give up on a one-sentence description of sourcing and resort to a numbered list to keep things straight. :)
That's a good observation! I remembered Tsuribe's essay, but only his EoE assessment:
In my view, The End of Evangelion ended on the phase when Shinji, the hero, found Asuka as "the other." For Shinji, Asuka is an ambiguous existence. On the one hand she lectures and inspires him because she minds him, but on the other she is also an existence beyond his control-the other that can never be interiorized. Asuka's ambiguity is also the ambiguity of the work Evangelion as it is.
Well, from the CRC:
So, naturally, I received, and agreed with, a proposal memo sent out by Tsurumaki, which said, "We have to provide Shinji, as well as the audience, with the same degree of shock and sense of loss as when Touji was lost in the TV series. For that reason, by boldly portraying Asuka as a 'good character'*, I hope to greatly convey that sense of loss." Because of that, I wanted to have Asuka pilot Unit-03 in order to do something for Rei, and Shinji, and others - something for other people. As Tsurumaki put it, it's like a "death flag" is raised. As a result, Asuka piloting Unit-03 ended up being made into the "peak" of her drama. I changed various parts of the script in accordance with this. For example, Asuka's impetus for piloting Unit-03 would connect with the story of Rei [learning to cook and?] preparing a dinner party for Shinji and Gendou. It seemed like these things, as well as Asuka's character, dialogue, and so on, had gradually become solidified.
---It's not just Mari and Asuka, who participate [in the new films] from "Break" onwards. It was impressive to see Rei display significant changes as well. In particular, there is the fact that she prepares a meal, or the shock of her saying "poka-poka." Concerning changes made to the regular characters as well, if there were reasons [for this], please inform us of what they were.
Anno: With Rei, for some reason, i just feel "it happened like that" naturally. I never remember why it happened that way. Regarding Rei's dinner party for Shinji and Gendo, that was originally a plot I had thought of using for episode 4 of the TV series. I remembered it and thought I would include it this time. I have a memory of it being, at that time, something like Shinji's birthday party. I think I replaced that with the dinner party this time. So, the episode where Rei prepares a meal was already in the first draft of the script. The dialogue where Rei says, "......it's a secret. I'll tell you when I get a little better [at it]" was included in the second draft, dated September 9th, 2006. That's the second time that Rei smiles at Shinji. The Rei of "Break" was established from this point on. Since I hit upon that dialogue, I feel like Rei spontaneously became a character whose emotions leak a little bit into her outward appearance. As far as Rei is concerned, [I am] unconscious. I don't control anything. With "poka-poka," as well, I felt like she said it of her own volition before I was even aware of it.
Tsurumaki: Right. There was a feeling that we wanted the difficulties to be, as far as possible, confined to "Break," because we wanted a situation where we would be able to try various things in the third part. So, after Rei's death in episode 23, Kaworu comes to Shinji; we attempted a structure similar to the TV series. But, in the end, Rei didn't die........
--- Instead, it seemed that Shinji and Rei "got together."
Tsurumaki: There is probably some other intention there, so I think you should check with Anno-san [about that]. However, because there was a feeling that Rei III had been poorly developed in the TV series, after Rei II died in "Break," we wanted to develop in detail the drama of Rei III in "Q."
--- So it's something you were not able to fully realize in the TV series. "Because I am the third" is an amazingly impactful, famous line of dialogue, but, in truth, I felt that [Rei III] didn't really mean much after that.....
Tsurumaki: I thought going deeply into that would be interesting, even in a "Science Fiction"-like way. As Rei realizes the fact, and the significance of the fact, that there has been more than one Rei before her, how, as a clone, will she achieve her independence as an individual? I wanted to develop a story like that. However, it was decided that Rei wouldn't die, and, in the climax of "Break," we strongly and actively push the idea of "Rei and Shinji being brought together," a development taken over from "Prelude."
....
--- This is quite a shock (laughing)! Surely, immediately following "Prelude," there are people who grin and say of the "love love strategy," "This is a big change!" Surely it leaves a strong impression on everyone. As a result, they will surely think during "Break," "Ah, as I thought, those two were brought together!"
Tsurumaki: The impression that Anno-san mainly wanted to convey was that Gendou and Fuyutsuki were devising a secret plot. Because Shinji happens to go to Rei's room just after that, that was what they discussed. When "secret plot" and "Shinji and Rei" were combined, it probably appeared something like "a strategy to bring together Shinji and Rei."
--- Rather than being disappointed, I'm impressed. All the more, I have a pleasant feeling that things have become "Eva-esque." The fact that this consistency is inherent [makes it] extremely valuable; I am delighted [to think] that this may be the much-discussed "live feeling." [*] In any case, there will surely be many viewers who have the impression that, this time, Gendou's Human Instrumentality Project [somehow depends on] this "love love strategy." Fuyutsuki also says something like, "As we thought, owing to those two Unit-01 has awakened."
[* There is a footnote about this. It refers to Anno's desire to bring the "live feeling" of theater into anime.]
Tsurumaki: And Gendou replies something like "A little while longer, and our project is complete." I had doubts storyboarding that conversation, and sent Anno-san a series of questions about it. "So Gendou knew this would happen to Unit-01? Or was Gendou also surprised and troubled? Or was Gendou surprised, but pleased with the outcome?" I didn't understand the specific meaning of the statement, so I struggled to interpret it. Anno-san replied that, "For now, we'll say he aimed at this and things went the way he expected." I wondered if that was enough. For myself, I am still skeptical that even Gendou isn't really panicking inside, but...
On a side-note, as time passes and I see more quotes from Azuma's _Database Animals_, I become more impressed with it. I have a scan of it, but are there (searchable) ebooks available anywhere? Would it be a worthwhile project to make a good ebook of it like I did with _The Notenki Memoirs_?
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I was wandering around the internet and I found the full table of contents for these books here. It gives an indication of what sort of things are discussed in the books, so I have posted an attempted translation.
Hideaki Anno - Schizo Evangelion
Part One: Long Interview with Hideaki Anno (organized by Mitsunari Oizumi)
Chapter One: We are empty
Aum Shinrikyo and Eva
I had gotten tired of Anime fans
Television dependency
Eva is a private film
An unprecedented service
Chapter Two: How to finish a story
How to finish a story
At first glance, a "happy end"
Not merely a copy
One should mix in poison
A new track
The influence of Yamato
Chapter Three: Creation is a masturbation show
An attachment to deformity
The first episode of Gundam is the ultimate
The work and other people
Picturesque masturbation
Gainax, the amateur group
The taste of Go Nagai
Chapter Four: Devilman and the Oedipus Complex
Happiness is an illusion
Towards Cerebrism
The Dead Sea Scrolls
We have no time
Devilman
The AT Field
Anxiety after the end of the broadcast
Columns: Story Digest
(1) Episode 1 - Episode 7
(2) Episode 8 - Episode 15
(3) Episode 16 - Episode 19
(4) Episode 20 - Episode 22
(5) Episode 23 - Episode 26
Part Two: Hideaki Anno "tried in absentia" by the staff of Evangelion (First Part)
Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's first meeting with Director Anno
Masayuki's first meeting with Director Anno
Hiroki Sato's first meeting with Director Anno
Toshimichi Otsuki's first meeting with Director Anno
Kazuya Tsurumaki's first meeting with Director Anno
The "terror" of Hideaki Anno
Picking up girls [?] using the "God Warrior"
Hideaki Anno as an animator
Hideaki Anno as a director
The beginning of Eva (1)
On Rei Ayanami (1)
On Rei Ayanami (2)
The beginning of Eva (2)
On Rei Ayanami (3)
On Kaworu
On Rei Ayanami (4)
On Rei Ayanami (5)
Part Three: What is Rei Ayanami? (Mitsunari Oizumi)
Hideaki Anno - Parano Evangelion
Part One: Long Interview with Hideaki Anno (organized by Kentaro Takekuma)
Chapter One: I won't study anymore
An honor student in my hometown
My family
The first work I saw
The monster and the hero
Yamato on a black-and-white TV
I won't study anymore
The legendary Yamato feature
Farewell Yamato
Absorbed in 8-mm film
Chapter Two: The birth of Daicon Film
Meeting Hiroyuki Yamaga
Gundam starts broadcasting!
Beginning on Ultraman
The birth of Daicon Film
The reason I became Ultraman
Setback and separation
Chapter Three: The long road to Eva
Selected for "Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind"
An insolent newcomer
A second master
Grave of the Fireflies
The director Isao Takahata
Hayao Miyazaki's view of "Royal Space Force"
The formation of Gainax
Gainax didn't break up
Aim for the Top!
Anime loses money
The suspension of "Blue Uru"
Chapter Four: Feeling despair, but that point was the beginning
Conflict
What's so great about Gendo?
To "depict a human being"
Nothing changes in the world
On romantic love
Crying in the arms of a woman
The true meaning of words
Looking for one's mother in a woman
What would be madness?
Epilogue
Columns: Hideaki Anno's amateur period (1) (2)
From Nausicaa to Nadia
Introduction to the main characters of Eva
Part Two: Hideaki Anno "tried in absentia" by the staff of Evangelion (Second Part)
Why is the main character a boy?
On "I musn't run away"
Father and Mother (1) - (5)
Can Hideaki Anno "change"? (1) (2)
Why did Shinji pilot? (1) (2)
Rei Ayanami's smile
On the last two episodes
Critique of Otaku
Suicidal desires (1)
Psychological attack
Suicidal desires (2)
At the end
Part Three: Me and Evangelion (Kentaro Takekuma)
「庵野秀明 スキゾ・エヴァンゲリオン」
第一部 庵野秀明ロングインタビュー（構成＋大泉実成）
第壱章 僕たちには何もない
オウム真理教と『エヴァ』
アニメファンが嫌になった
テレビ依存
『エヴァ』はプライベート・フィルムだ
前代未聞のサービス
第弐章 物語の終わらせ方
物語の終わらせ方
一応のハッピーエンド
ただのコピーではない
毒は混ぜるべきだ
新しいレール
『ヤマト』の影響
第参章 創作とはオナニーショウである
奇形への愛着
『ガンダム』の一話は最高
作品と他者
絵になるオナニー
アマチュア集団「ガイナックス」
永井豪テイスト
第四章「デビルマン」とエディプス・コンプレックス
幸せは幻影
唯脳論へ
死海文書
我々には時間がない
デビルマン
ATフィールド
放映終了後の不安
コラム――ストーリーダイジェスト（１）第壱話～第七話
ストーリーダイジェスト（２）第八話～第拾五話
ストーリーダイジェスト（３）第拾六話～第拾九話
ストーリーダイジェスト（４）第弐拾話～第弐拾弐話
ストーリーダイジェスト（５）第弐拾参話～第弐拾六話
第二部 『エヴァンゲリオン』スタッフによる庵野秀明“欠席裁判”（前編）
貞本義行氏と庵野監督
摩砂雪氏 と庵野監督の出会い
佐藤裕紀氏と庵野監督の出会い
大月俊倫氏と庵野監督の出会い
鶴巻和哉氏と庵野監督の出会い
庵野秀明の「怖さ」
「巨神兵」でナンパ
アニメーターとしての庵野秀明
演出家としての庵野秀明
『エヴァ』の始まり（１）
綾波レイについて（１）
綾波レイについて（２）
『エヴァ』の始まり（２）
綾波レイについて（３）
カヲルについて
綾波レイについて（４）
綾波レイについて（５）
第三部 綾波レイとは何か？（大泉実成）
Hideaki Anno - Schizo Evangelion
Part One: Long Interview with Hideaki Anno (organized by Mitsunari Oizumi)
Chapter One: We are empty
Aum Shinrikyo and Eva
I had gotten tired of Anime fans
Television dependency
Eva is a private film
An unprecedented service
Chapter Two: How to finish a story
How to finish a story
At first glance, a "happy end"
Not merely a copy
One should mix in poison
A new track
The influence of Yamato
Chapter Three: Creation is a masturbation show
An attachment to deformity
The first episode of Gundam is the ultimate
The work and other people
Picturesque masturbation
Gainax, the amateur group
The taste of Go Nagai
Chapter Four: Devilman and the Oedipus Complex
Happiness is an illusion
Towards Cerebrism
The Dead Sea Scrolls
We have no time
Devilman
The AT Field
Anxiety after the end of the broadcast
Columns: Story Digest
(1) Episode 1 - Episode 7
(2) Episode 8 - Episode 15
(3) Episode 16 - Episode 19
(4) Episode 20 - Episode 22
(5) Episode 23 - Episode 26
Part Two: Hideaki Anno "tried in absentia" by the staff of Evangelion (First Part)
Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's first meeting with Director Anno
Masayuki's first meeting with Director Anno
Hiroki Sato's first meeting with Director Anno
Toshimichi Otsuki's first meeting with Director Anno
Kazuya Tsurumaki's first meeting with Director Anno
The "terror" of Hideaki Anno
Picking up girls [?] using the "God Warrior"
Hideaki Anno as an animator
Hideaki Anno as a director
The beginning of Eva (1)
On Rei Ayanami (1)
On Rei Ayanami (2)
The beginning of Eva (2)
On Rei Ayanami (3)
On Kaworu
On Rei Ayanami (4)
On Rei Ayanami (5)
Part Three: What is Rei Ayanami? (Mitsunari Oizumi)
「庵野秀明 パラノ・エヴァンゲリオン」
第一部 庵野秀明ロングインタビュー（構成＋竹熊健太郎）
第壱章 もう、ぼくは勉強しない
故郷では優等生
家族のこと
最初に見た映像
怪獣とヒーロー
白黒テレビで『ヤマト』を
もう僕は勉強しない
伝説のヤマト特集
さらば『やまと』よ
八ミリ映画に夢中
第弐章 ダイコンフィルム誕生
山賀博之との出会い
ガンダム放映開始！
『ウルトラマン』事始め
ダイコンフィルムの誕生
ウルトラマンになった理由
挫折、そして決別
第参章 エヴァへの長い道
『風の谷のナウシカ』で大抜擢
ド生意気な新人
第二の師匠
『火垂るの墓』
高畑勲という監督
宮崎駿の『王立宇宙軍』観
ガイナックス結成
解散しなかったガイナックス
『トップをねらえ！』
アニメは大赤字
『蒼きウル』の凍結
第四章 絶望は思うんだけど、そこからスタートです
葛藤
ゲンドウのどこがいいのか
「人間を描く」ということ
世界は何も変わらない
恋愛について
女の胸で泣く
発言の真意は
女性に母親を求める
何が狂気か
エピローグ
コラム――アマチュア時代の庵野秀明（１）（２）
ナウシカからナディアまで
「エヴァ」主要キャラクター紹介
第二部 『エヴァンゲリオン』スタッフによる庵野秀明“欠席裁判”（後編）
なぜ主人公は男なのか？
「逃げちゃダメだ」について
父親と母親（１）～（５）
庵野秀明は「変われる」のか？（１）（２）
シンジはなぜ乗ったか（１）（２）
綾波レイの微笑み
最終二話について
オタク批判
自殺願望（１）
精神攻撃
自殺願望（２）
終りに
第三部 私とエヴァンゲリオン（竹熊健太郎）
Hideaki Anno - Parano Evangelion
Part One: Long Interview with Hideaki Anno (organized by Kentaro Takekuma)
Chapter One: I won't study anymore
An honor student in my hometown
My family
The first work I saw
The monster and the hero
Yamato on a black-and-white TV
I won't study anymore
The legendary Yamato feature
Farewell Yamato
Absorbed in 8-mm film
Chapter Two: The birth of Daicon Film
Meeting Hiroyuki Yamaga
Gundam starts broadcasting!
Beginning on Ultraman
The birth of Daicon Film
The reason I became Ultraman
Setback and separation
Chapter Three: The long road to Eva
Selected for "Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind"
An insolent newcomer
A second master
Grave of the Fireflies
The director Isao Takahata
Hayao Miyazaki's view of "Royal Space Force"
The formation of Gainax
Gainax didn't break up
Aim for the Top!
Anime loses money
The suspension of "Blue Uru"
Chapter Four: Feeling despair, but that point was the beginning
Conflict
What's so great about Gendo?
To "depict a human being"
Nothing changes in the world
On romantic love
Crying in the arms of a woman
The true meaning of words
Looking for one's mother in a woman
What would be madness?
Epilogue
Columns: Hideaki Anno's amateur period (1) (2)
From Nausicaa to Nadia
Introduction to the main characters of Eva
Part Two: Hideaki Anno "tried in absentia" by the staff of Evangelion (Second Part)
Why is the main character a boy?
On "I musn't run away"
Father and Mother (1) - (5)
Can Hideaki Anno "change"? (1) (2)
Why did Shinji pilot? (1) (2)
Rei Ayanami's smile
On the last two episodes
Critique of Otaku
Suicidal desires (1)
Psychological attack
Suicidal desires (2)
At the end
Part Three: Me and Evangelion (Kentaro Takekuma)
Last edited by 1731298478 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:52 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Hideaki Anno "tried in absentia" by the staff of Evangelion
"In the case of Hideaki Anno
I'm in Eva without wanting to be.
I'm forced to be here.
This junk won't move!
Oh, no, it's me who's junk."
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Those ToCs make the books sound ridiculously interesting and useful for Eva analysis, above and beyond the enlightening bits you already translated. I mean
There's Aum again!
Relevant to previous EoE quotes, and I wonder how the discussion of the ending ties in with what Michael House has been telling me... And actually, Anno has already used the term 'poison', at AX96:
Back to the ToC:
Gah!
Yes, yes, tell us about Kaworu, how you toned down the yaoi ness and then retconned him back into importance for the fujoshi...
I'd like to read this one, if only to cross-check with what Okada said on that topic...
Ditto, Notenki Memoirs.
Yes, I'd like to hear that one.
Didn't Sadamoto already tell us?
Yes, I'd like to read about both of those... I wonder if the second item relates to his public comments after the airing like the toilet one?
Aum Shinrikyo and Eva
There's Aum again!
An unprecedented service...A tentative "happy end"
Not merely a copy
One should mix in poison
Relevant to previous EoE quotes, and I wonder how the discussion of the ending ties in with what Michael House has been telling me... And actually, Anno has already used the term 'poison', at AX96:
"EVANGELION is my life", Anno says, "and I have put everything I know into this work. This is my entire life. My life itself!" As many fans want to know about the ending of this series, episodes 25 & 26, he says that he is making a different version and those two girls (Misato and Ritsuko) are dead in the end. He says, "I truly believe that sex and violence are part of our human life. These days in Japan, I think Japanese children need to know about those things more... instead of being protected too much from the society. Those matters are a little like a poison: we need to give them to the children little by little to establish an immunity, so they would have the ability and mental strength to resist. A lot of youth I know just don't have this immunity, and when something terrible happens, they can't deal with it. In a way, the poison can be the medication at the same time, and I believe that the more we know about those things, the more we can protect ourselves against specific matters."
Back to the ToC:
Towards Cerebrism
The Dead Sea Scrolls
We have no time
Devilman
The AT Field
Anxiety after the end of the broadcast
Gah!
On Kaworu
Yes, yes, tell us about Kaworu, how you toned down the yaoi ness and then retconned him back into importance for the fujoshi...
Hayao Miyazaki's view of "Royal Space Force"
I'd like to read this one, if only to cross-check with what Okada said on that topic...
Anime loses money
The suspension of "Blue Uru"
Ditto, Notenki Memoirs.
What's so great about Gendo?
Yes, I'd like to hear that one.
Why is the main character a boy?
Didn't Sadamoto already tell us?
On the last two episodes
Critique of Otaku
Yes, I'd like to read about both of those... I wonder if the second item relates to his public comments after the airing like the toilet one?
Last edited by gwern on Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://17th-angel.tumblr.com/post/40943964331/reitengo-nagisa-kaworu-the-fifth-eva has been making the rounds of 3.0 4chan threads. 17th Angel speculates it's from _Prano_.
Scan: http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1358/63/1358633875110.jpg
Quote:
The image includes what looks like the page number 107. About half-way through the table of contents of _Prano_ is a section titled "Introduction to the main characters of Eva"; and amazon.co.jp says _Prano_ has 190 pages.
Presumably Lili or someone should have no trouble confirming this.
Scan: http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1358/63/1358633875110.jpg
Quote:
Nagisa Kaworu The fifth Eva pilot whom Seele sent in. To Shinji, he was both the very first friend he could confide in as well as a same-sex romantic interest. On the account of his true nature as an “Angel”, he attempts to merge with the First Angel, Adam, ensconced in Nerv’s underground, to trigger Third Impact. Driven at the far end of his anguish, Shinji kills that beloved friend of his with Eva Unit-01.
The image includes what looks like the page number 107. About half-way through the table of contents of _Prano_ is a section titled "Introduction to the main characters of Eva"; and amazon.co.jp says _Prano_ has 190 pages.
Presumably Lili or someone should have no trouble confirming this.
- 1731298478
- Ramiel
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Nov 01, 2010
- Gender: Male
This is indeed from Parano. However, it isn't "official" information, but part of the character bios written independently by the interviewers.
I'm going to try translating some excerpts from Schizo/Parano, at random and based on suggestions. The books contain three interviews: two long interviews with Anno, dated June 19, 1996 (Schizo) and August 28, 1996 (Parano); and a long roundtable with Otsuki, Sadamoto, Sato, Tsurumaki, and Masayuki, which is split between the two books and undated. The content of the Schizo interview tends to overlap with or expand upon things Anno says in other interviews around the time; the content of the Parano interview is, I think, mostly unique. Anno seems very reticent at the outset of Schizo, and becomes more forthcoming at the interview goes on; he seems much "looser" throughout Parano as a whole. The roundtable takes place over drinks, and is very candid from the outset ^^ The interviewers are Mitsunari Oizumi and Kentaro Takekuma (with a few brief contributions from Yuichi Akata).
Note that the titles of the sections do not always reflect the overall content of the sections, but are usually drawn from a brief part or short comment made by Anno or an interviewer. I have included the Japanese so that the translations can be checked; any comments or suggestions are highly appreciated.
Mitsunari Oizumi's Introduction to Schizo
SPOILER: Show
九五年九月。オウム・杉並道場。上祐史浩説法論。
September, 1995. The Aum training facility at Suginami. A sermon being deivered by Fumihiro Joyu.
「私はいま、アニメを研究しています。オウムは、いわば『ニュータイプ』なんです。アニメを見ている子供たちは、無意識のうちに自分の未来の姿を選択し、予知しているんですよ。将来、多くの人々が超能力を持つことになるでしょう。ハルマゲドンは、来ます。」
"At this moment I am researching anime. [The members of] Aum are the so-called 'Newtypes.' The children who watch anime are unconsciously choosing and envisioning the form of their own future. In the future, many people will come to possess psychic powers. Armageddon is coming."
上祐史浩はこう言った。
This is what Fumihiro Joyu said.
そして九五年一〇月四日、アニメ「新世紀エヴァンゲリオン」は始まった。それはハルマゲドンの物語だった。
On October 4, 1995, the anime "Neon Genesis Evangelion" began airing. It was a story of Armageddon.
以下のインタユーを読んでもらえばよくわかるのが。経過は次の通りです。まず茨城県日立市で一歳児の育児をしながら延々とアニメのビデオ・チェックをやっていた僕（大泉）のかみさんが『エヴァ』にはまり、次に東京までフィルムブックを買いにやらされた僕がはまり（この時、小社刊の雑誌『クイック・ジャパン』編集長赤田君に「フィルムブックを買うようになったらもうオシマイですよ」と言われる）、九六年三月二七日放映終了、評判を知ってビデオで全編を見た竹熊さんがはまった。
You will know [the full details] once you read the following interview, but this [is a brief account] of how things came to pass. First of all, my (Oizumi's) wife, who was raising our one-year-old in Hitachi, Ibaraki prefecture, and endlessly checking anime videos [to see if they were suitable for a young child], became obsessed with Eva. Next, she made me get the [Eva] filmbook for her in Tokyo, and I became obsessed with Eva. (At this time Akata-kun - the editor of the magazine Quick Japan, put out by the publisher of this book - told me that if you're buying the filmbook, you're done for.) After the broadcast finished on March 27, 1996, Kentaro Takekuma-san, hearing of the series' reputation, watched the entire thing on video, and became obsessed with it.
それからの竹熊さんは凄かった。『エヴァ』の特集をやるべきだと言って赤田君を口説きに口説き（僕もやったが）ほぼ丸一日かけて、竹熊家において『エヴァ』を作った「ガイナックス」そして庵野秀明がどのような歴史をたどってきたか、大学生時代のアニメから『エヴァ』に至るまでの大上映会をやり、アニメ業界にうとい僕にその歴史を認識させ、赤田君に『エヴァ』特集を納得させた。
Takekuma-san was incredible after that. He spent almost a whole day (I was there too, but...) persuading Akata-kun of the necessity of doing a special feature on Eva [for Quick Japan]. [Then,] at the Takekuma-residence, he held a great screening party that recounted the history of the makers of Eva, Gainax and Hideaki Anno, beginning with their University-era anime works, and finishing with Eva [itself]. He opened my eyes - as someone ignorant of the anime industry - to the history [of Anno and Gainax], and he got Akata-kun to agree to the special issue on Eva.
同時に竹熊さんは、プライヴェートで庵野氏と接触、このインタビューを受けてもらうための下地を作ってくれた。
At the same time Takekuma-san privately contacted Mr. Anno, and laid the groundwork for him to accept the interview.
僕はノンフィクションの業界にいて、九五年は丸一年をほぼオウム取材（特に信者インタービューと体験修行）で潰しつつ、『クイック・ジャパン』「消えたマンガ家」を連載するという、アニメ業界とは縁もゆかりもない人間がった。一方庵野氏は、完全にアニメ業界で生きてきた人だった。『エヴァ』にはまったという以外、まったく接点のない二人の間に立って、竹熊さんは実に見事に翻訳者の役割を果たしてくれ、インタビュアーとしても無類の能力を発揮してくらた。記して感謝の意を表したい。そして何より、このようなインタビューを受け、腹の底までさらけ出だしてくれた庵野秀明氏に、心より厚く御礼申し上げたい。
[A member of] the non-fiction industry, I spent almost all of 1995 gathering information on Aum (especially through interviews and direct experience of their spiritual training), while serializing "The Disappearance of the Mangaka" in Quick Japan; I was a complete stranger to the anime industry. On the other hand, Mr. Anno was someone who had lived his whole life in the anime industry. With the two of us having no point of contact at all aside from being absorbed in Eva, Takekuma-san splendidly served as a translator between the two of us, and exhibited a matchless capability as an interviewer as well. I want to express my gratitude to him in writing. More than anything, I want to express my sincere gratitude to Mr. Hideaki Anno for accepting this interview and opening himself up to us.
September, 1995. The Aum training facility at Suginami. A sermon being deivered by Fumihiro Joyu.
「私はいま、アニメを研究しています。オウムは、いわば『ニュータイプ』なんです。アニメを見ている子供たちは、無意識のうちに自分の未来の姿を選択し、予知しているんですよ。将来、多くの人々が超能力を持つことになるでしょう。ハルマゲドンは、来ます。」
"At this moment I am researching anime. [The members of] Aum are the so-called 'Newtypes.' The children who watch anime are unconsciously choosing and envisioning the form of their own future. In the future, many people will come to possess psychic powers. Armageddon is coming."
上祐史浩はこう言った。
This is what Fumihiro Joyu said.
そして九五年一〇月四日、アニメ「新世紀エヴァンゲリオン」は始まった。それはハルマゲドンの物語だった。
On October 4, 1995, the anime "Neon Genesis Evangelion" began airing. It was a story of Armageddon.
以下のインタユーを読んでもらえばよくわかるのが。経過は次の通りです。まず茨城県日立市で一歳児の育児をしながら延々とアニメのビデオ・チェックをやっていた僕（大泉）のかみさんが『エヴァ』にはまり、次に東京までフィルムブックを買いにやらされた僕がはまり（この時、小社刊の雑誌『クイック・ジャパン』編集長赤田君に「フィルムブックを買うようになったらもうオシマイですよ」と言われる）、九六年三月二七日放映終了、評判を知ってビデオで全編を見た竹熊さんがはまった。
You will know [the full details] once you read the following interview, but this [is a brief account] of how things came to pass. First of all, my (Oizumi's) wife, who was raising our one-year-old in Hitachi, Ibaraki prefecture, and endlessly checking anime videos [to see if they were suitable for a young child], became obsessed with Eva. Next, she made me get the [Eva] filmbook for her in Tokyo, and I became obsessed with Eva. (At this time Akata-kun - the editor of the magazine Quick Japan, put out by the publisher of this book - told me that if you're buying the filmbook, you're done for.) After the broadcast finished on March 27, 1996, Kentaro Takekuma-san, hearing of the series' reputation, watched the entire thing on video, and became obsessed with it.
それからの竹熊さんは凄かった。『エヴァ』の特集をやるべきだと言って赤田君を口説きに口説き（僕もやったが）ほぼ丸一日かけて、竹熊家において『エヴァ』を作った「ガイナックス」そして庵野秀明がどのような歴史をたどってきたか、大学生時代のアニメから『エヴァ』に至るまでの大上映会をやり、アニメ業界にうとい僕にその歴史を認識させ、赤田君に『エヴァ』特集を納得させた。
Takekuma-san was incredible after that. He spent almost a whole day (I was there too, but...) persuading Akata-kun of the necessity of doing a special feature on Eva [for Quick Japan]. [Then,] at the Takekuma-residence, he held a great screening party that recounted the history of the makers of Eva, Gainax and Hideaki Anno, beginning with their University-era anime works, and finishing with Eva [itself]. He opened my eyes - as someone ignorant of the anime industry - to the history [of Anno and Gainax], and he got Akata-kun to agree to the special issue on Eva.
同時に竹熊さんは、プライヴェートで庵野氏と接触、このインタビューを受けてもらうための下地を作ってくれた。
At the same time Takekuma-san privately contacted Mr. Anno, and laid the groundwork for him to accept the interview.
僕はノンフィクションの業界にいて、九五年は丸一年をほぼオウム取材（特に信者インタービューと体験修行）で潰しつつ、『クイック・ジャパン』「消えたマンガ家」を連載するという、アニメ業界とは縁もゆかりもない人間がった。一方庵野氏は、完全にアニメ業界で生きてきた人だった。『エヴァ』にはまったという以外、まったく接点のない二人の間に立って、竹熊さんは実に見事に翻訳者の役割を果たしてくれ、インタビュアーとしても無類の能力を発揮してくらた。記して感謝の意を表したい。そして何より、このようなインタビューを受け、腹の底までさらけ出だしてくれた庵野秀明氏に、心より厚く御礼申し上げたい。
[A member of] the non-fiction industry, I spent almost all of 1995 gathering information on Aum (especially through interviews and direct experience of their spiritual training), while serializing "The Disappearance of the Mangaka" in Quick Japan; I was a complete stranger to the anime industry. On the other hand, Mr. Anno was someone who had lived his whole life in the anime industry. With the two of us having no point of contact at all aside from being absorbed in Eva, Takekuma-san splendidly served as a translator between the two of us, and exhibited a matchless capability as an interviewer as well. I want to express my gratitude to him in writing. More than anything, I want to express my sincere gratitude to Mr. Hideaki Anno for accepting this interview and opening himself up to us.
From "Aum Shinrikyo and Eva." This section actually deals with Oizumi and Takekuma's introductions to and initial impressions of Evangelion, and contains little contribution from Anno.
SPOILER: Show
大泉 僕自身は去年の一月くらいから、オウムの取材をずっとやっていまして、彼らがどんな集団だかわからなかったので、最終的には入会して、どういう人たちが麻原彰晃の磁力に引っぱられてきたのかを、ずっと取材して本にしてきたんです。去年『エヴァンゲリオン』が始まって見た時に、『エヴァンゲリオン・テス・バシレイアス』っていうまったく同じものがオウムのロシアのラジオ番組にあったもんですから、こんな番組が始めちゃっていいのかってびっくりしたことがあるんですよ。
Oizumi: I myself have been engaged in gathering information on Aum since around January of last year. Since I had didn't know what kind of organization they were, in the end I joined them, and, collecting information the whole time on what kind of people were attracted by the pull of Shoko Asahara, put [my findings] into a book. When I first saw Evangelion last year, I was shocked, wondering if a show like this should be airing, since [the title] contained the same phrase as Aum's radio program [broadcast] from Russia, "Evangelion Tes Basileias."
庵野 同時多発でしたね。全然、僕は知らなかったです。
Anno: A simultaneous occurrence. I didn't know anything at all [about the radio program].
大泉 それでとても強烈な印象があって、それから、もう一つ、オープニングにはカバラのデザインの絵があって、麻原もいろんな宗教に飛び込んだ人ですけれど、カバラには入ってなかったんで（笑）。それでちょっと安心しました。
Oizumi: So that made a strong impression on me. After that there was another thing, the images of a Kabbalistic design in the opening sequence. Asahara had also plunged into a variety of different religions, but he had not gone into Kabbalah (laughing). I relaxed a little because of that.
竹熊 でも後期オウムは、キリスト教までパクってたから、けっこう、けっこう、危なかったですよね。
Takekuma: But it was [still] dangerous enough, since in its later period Aum had gone so far as to steal [elements from] Christianity.
大泉 カバラはユダヤ教密教だから、その辺がキリキリの線でした。『エヴァンゲリオン』を初めて見た時、カバラの思想がベースになるんだなって思いました。
Oizumi: Kabbalah is an esoteric form of Judaism, so it was marginal [to Aum's use of Christianity]. When I first watched Evangelion, I thought that it was based upon Kabbalistic thought.
庵野 大いなる勘違いですけれどね(笑）。
Anno: That was quite a misconception (laughing).
Oizumi: I myself have been engaged in gathering information on Aum since around January of last year. Since I had didn't know what kind of organization they were, in the end I joined them, and, collecting information the whole time on what kind of people were attracted by the pull of Shoko Asahara, put [my findings] into a book. When I first saw Evangelion last year, I was shocked, wondering if a show like this should be airing, since [the title] contained the same phrase as Aum's radio program [broadcast] from Russia, "Evangelion Tes Basileias."
庵野 同時多発でしたね。全然、僕は知らなかったです。
Anno: A simultaneous occurrence. I didn't know anything at all [about the radio program].
大泉 それでとても強烈な印象があって、それから、もう一つ、オープニングにはカバラのデザインの絵があって、麻原もいろんな宗教に飛び込んだ人ですけれど、カバラには入ってなかったんで（笑）。それでちょっと安心しました。
Oizumi: So that made a strong impression on me. After that there was another thing, the images of a Kabbalistic design in the opening sequence. Asahara had also plunged into a variety of different religions, but he had not gone into Kabbalah (laughing). I relaxed a little because of that.
竹熊 でも後期オウムは、キリスト教までパクってたから、けっこう、けっこう、危なかったですよね。
Takekuma: But it was [still] dangerous enough, since in its later period Aum had gone so far as to steal [elements from] Christianity.
大泉 カバラはユダヤ教密教だから、その辺がキリキリの線でした。『エヴァンゲリオン』を初めて見た時、カバラの思想がベースになるんだなって思いました。
Oizumi: Kabbalah is an esoteric form of Judaism, so it was marginal [to Aum's use of Christianity]. When I first watched Evangelion, I thought that it was based upon Kabbalistic thought.
庵野 大いなる勘違いですけれどね(笑）。
Anno: That was quite a misconception (laughing).
This is the untitled opening passage of Chapter 2, "How to Finish A Story." Although this section is untitled, it seems to correspond to the section listed in the contents as "An Unprecedented Service," which was omitted from the end of the previous chapter, where it was supposed to have been.
SPOILER: Show
竹熊 『エヴァ』の制作後半はスケジュール的にも凄まじかったと聞いてますけど……
Takekuma: I heard that the second half of the production of Eva was dreadful in terms of the scheduling...
庵野 そうですね。よくもったと思いました。外にいる人にはわからないと思いますけど、あそこまでもったこと自体が奇跡なんですよ。あそこのスケジューリングをこれだけ少数の人間でできたってことね。少数精鋭だからできたってこともありますけれど。これだけの人数で、あれだけのものを、こんな短時間で、あんなふうによくできた。それはもうスタッフの熱意とか、メンタルの部分に頼った点が大きかった。でも、こういうことは外からでは見えてこないことですよね。大多数は結果でしか判断してくれませんから。僕から見れば、あの結果で充分、やれることはやったんです。やっぱり、ああいうことをやるには血流さない奴はダメなってことですね。血を流さない人間は深いところまでわかってくれない。
Anno: That's true. We held out well, I think. I don't think that people outside [of the production] realize this, but it was a miracle that we held out as long as we did. To finish that schedule with so few people. Although [you could] also [say] we did it because we were an elite few. To do something like that, with so few people, in such a short amount of time - in this sense, we did very well. There were many points where I depended upon the passion or the mentality of the staff. But these are things that people outside [of the production] are unable to see. The great majority of people judge only the final result. From my perspective, we did everything that we were able to do. Of course, doing something like this is impossible for someone who won't shed their own blood. People who don't shed their own blood won't be able to understand it at a deep level.
竹熊 先程、こういう仕事はサービス業だっておっしゃてましたけれど、そのあとで、そのサービスを裏切るようなこと（ストーリーの放棄）をしてしまったってことに、ご自分の中では矛盾を感じませんでしたか？
Takekuma: A little while ago you described this sort of work as a service industry, but you carried out something like a betrayal of this [principle of] service (in abandoning the story); didn't you feel that to be a self-contradiction?
庵野 いや、あれが僕のサービスなんです。(笑）
Anno: No, that was my service (laughing).
竹熊 やっぱりね(笑）。
Takekuma: Of course (laughing).
庵野 サービスに見えないけれど、サービスなんです。見えないサービス。怒るんだっら本気で怒らせようっていうのがありました。「なんだこんな作画は！」って怒り方よりは、目の前のちゃぶ台をひっくりかえすような感情に持っていた方がなんかスッキリするだろうし。
Anno: It may not have looked like service, but it was service. It was service that couldn't be recognized [as such]. One aspect of it was, if [the audience was] going to be angry, then I was really going to make [them] angry. Rather than being angry about the [quality of] animation, it would be cleaner if they had a feeling that made them want to flip over the table in front of them.
大泉 うちのかみさんは見事、それにはまってますね。
Oizumi: My own wife fell splendidly into that [trap].
竹熊 精神崩壊を起こしたようなものだからね（笑）。
Takekuma: It was like the work triggered a psychological collapse (laughing).
庵野 あと、こういうふうに話題になったでしょう、終わったあとも。そういう話題を提供することが僕の中でサービスだってことがある。前代未聞ですよ。これだけ作り込んでいて最後があれですから。
Anno: I also [thought] it would be a topic of discussion, even after it was finished. A part of it was that, for me, providing that discussion would be [a form of] service. [An] unprecedented [service]. Working assiduously at it, we got that kind of ending. [?]
大泉 最後は財布もはたいてスッカラカンになったって話ですが、経済的なところで言いますと、アニメーターの人、いちばん下の現場に降りていくお金は少ないっていうのはすごく有名な話ですけれど。
Oizumi: This has to do with the fact that you ended up spending all your money... From an economic standpoint, it's a well-known story that little money remains to be passed down to the animators, or those occupying the lowest positions [among the staff].
庵野 そうですね。とても、内容に比例する金額ではないですね。それの穴埋めには精神的なものしかない。上がったフィルムを見てもらって、面白くてやってよかったと思ってくれることしかない。精神的な報酬しか僕は用意することができなかった。でも、それはそれでプレッシャーには、なりましたけれどね。つまらなくなったらやめるってことですから。常に面白いものを供給しないといけない。真剣勝負でしたね。
Anno: Right. [What they get] is not at all proportionate to the [amount of] content [they create]. All they get to compensate for that [insufficient amount of money] is something psychological. [I can] only have them be pleased with the fact, when they see the finished work, that it is interesting and they are glad to have worked on it. I could only arrange for them to receive a psychological [form of] remuneration. But that becomes a kind of pressure in its own way, because they may stop working on it if it becomes uninteresting. I always have to provide something interesting. It was a game played in earnest.
竹熊 最後の二話に関しては、他のスタッフの方はどうおっしゃってましたか？
Takekuma: What did the other staff members say about the final two episodes?
庵野 納得ずく人もいるし、これでＯＫの人もいた。
Anno: There were some who were satisfied with it, and some who thought that it was acceptable.
竹熊 納得できない人というのは、いなかったんでしょうか。
Takekuma: So there wasn't anyone who was dissatisfied with it?
庵野 あんまりなかったんですね。最後の二本は、僕の中ではこういうふうに作らざるを得なかった。あとでリテイクすると言っていたことも関係してるんですけど。
Anno: Hardly anyone. I didn't feel that I could do the final two episodes any other way. [The lack of dissatisfaction] also had to do with the fact that I said we would "retake" [the final two episodes].
竹熊 リテイクできないってことになると、もうちょっと違った反応になってくるでしょうね。
Takekuma: If you [had said you] were unable to "retake" [the final two episodes], the reaction would probably have been a little bit different.
Takekuma: I heard that the second half of the production of Eva was dreadful in terms of the scheduling...
庵野 そうですね。よくもったと思いました。外にいる人にはわからないと思いますけど、あそこまでもったこと自体が奇跡なんですよ。あそこのスケジューリングをこれだけ少数の人間でできたってことね。少数精鋭だからできたってこともありますけれど。これだけの人数で、あれだけのものを、こんな短時間で、あんなふうによくできた。それはもうスタッフの熱意とか、メンタルの部分に頼った点が大きかった。でも、こういうことは外からでは見えてこないことですよね。大多数は結果でしか判断してくれませんから。僕から見れば、あの結果で充分、やれることはやったんです。やっぱり、ああいうことをやるには血流さない奴はダメなってことですね。血を流さない人間は深いところまでわかってくれない。
Anno: That's true. We held out well, I think. I don't think that people outside [of the production] realize this, but it was a miracle that we held out as long as we did. To finish that schedule with so few people. Although [you could] also [say] we did it because we were an elite few. To do something like that, with so few people, in such a short amount of time - in this sense, we did very well. There were many points where I depended upon the passion or the mentality of the staff. But these are things that people outside [of the production] are unable to see. The great majority of people judge only the final result. From my perspective, we did everything that we were able to do. Of course, doing something like this is impossible for someone who won't shed their own blood. People who don't shed their own blood won't be able to understand it at a deep level.
竹熊 先程、こういう仕事はサービス業だっておっしゃてましたけれど、そのあとで、そのサービスを裏切るようなこと（ストーリーの放棄）をしてしまったってことに、ご自分の中では矛盾を感じませんでしたか？
Takekuma: A little while ago you described this sort of work as a service industry, but you carried out something like a betrayal of this [principle of] service (in abandoning the story); didn't you feel that to be a self-contradiction?
庵野 いや、あれが僕のサービスなんです。(笑）
Anno: No, that was my service (laughing).
竹熊 やっぱりね(笑）。
Takekuma: Of course (laughing).
庵野 サービスに見えないけれど、サービスなんです。見えないサービス。怒るんだっら本気で怒らせようっていうのがありました。「なんだこんな作画は！」って怒り方よりは、目の前のちゃぶ台をひっくりかえすような感情に持っていた方がなんかスッキリするだろうし。
Anno: It may not have looked like service, but it was service. It was service that couldn't be recognized [as such]. One aspect of it was, if [the audience was] going to be angry, then I was really going to make [them] angry. Rather than being angry about the [quality of] animation, it would be cleaner if they had a feeling that made them want to flip over the table in front of them.
大泉 うちのかみさんは見事、それにはまってますね。
Oizumi: My own wife fell splendidly into that [trap].
竹熊 精神崩壊を起こしたようなものだからね（笑）。
Takekuma: It was like the work triggered a psychological collapse (laughing).
庵野 あと、こういうふうに話題になったでしょう、終わったあとも。そういう話題を提供することが僕の中でサービスだってことがある。前代未聞ですよ。これだけ作り込んでいて最後があれですから。
Anno: I also [thought] it would be a topic of discussion, even after it was finished. A part of it was that, for me, providing that discussion would be [a form of] service. [An] unprecedented [service]. Working assiduously at it, we got that kind of ending. [?]
大泉 最後は財布もはたいてスッカラカンになったって話ですが、経済的なところで言いますと、アニメーターの人、いちばん下の現場に降りていくお金は少ないっていうのはすごく有名な話ですけれど。
Oizumi: This has to do with the fact that you ended up spending all your money... From an economic standpoint, it's a well-known story that little money remains to be passed down to the animators, or those occupying the lowest positions [among the staff].
庵野 そうですね。とても、内容に比例する金額ではないですね。それの穴埋めには精神的なものしかない。上がったフィルムを見てもらって、面白くてやってよかったと思ってくれることしかない。精神的な報酬しか僕は用意することができなかった。でも、それはそれでプレッシャーには、なりましたけれどね。つまらなくなったらやめるってことですから。常に面白いものを供給しないといけない。真剣勝負でしたね。
Anno: Right. [What they get] is not at all proportionate to the [amount of] content [they create]. All they get to compensate for that [insufficient amount of money] is something psychological. [I can] only have them be pleased with the fact, when they see the finished work, that it is interesting and they are glad to have worked on it. I could only arrange for them to receive a psychological [form of] remuneration. But that becomes a kind of pressure in its own way, because they may stop working on it if it becomes uninteresting. I always have to provide something interesting. It was a game played in earnest.
竹熊 最後の二話に関しては、他のスタッフの方はどうおっしゃってましたか？
Takekuma: What did the other staff members say about the final two episodes?
庵野 納得ずく人もいるし、これでＯＫの人もいた。
Anno: There were some who were satisfied with it, and some who thought that it was acceptable.
竹熊 納得できない人というのは、いなかったんでしょうか。
Takekuma: So there wasn't anyone who was dissatisfied with it?
庵野 あんまりなかったんですね。最後の二本は、僕の中ではこういうふうに作らざるを得なかった。あとでリテイクすると言っていたことも関係してるんですけど。
Anno: Hardly anyone. I didn't feel that I could do the final two episodes any other way. [The lack of dissatisfaction] also had to do with the fact that I said we would "retake" [the final two episodes].
竹熊 リテイクできないってことになると、もうちょっと違った反応になってくるでしょうね。
Takekuma: If you [had said you] were unable to "retake" [the final two episodes], the reaction would probably have been a little bit different.
From "At First Glance, a 'Happy End'"
SPOILER: Show
大泉 竹熊さん自身、『ヤングサンデー』で連載『チャイルド・プラネット』でストーリーもの、ハルマゲドンを扱ってますね。
Oizumi: Takekuma-san, you yourself treated [the concept of] Armageddon in the story of "Child Planet," serialized in [the magazine] "Young Sunday."
竹熊 だから正直、『エヴァ』を見てまいったって思いました。同世代なって。始めた動機には近いものがあったと思いますね。あれも三年くらい前に考えた話なんです。
Takekuma: To be honest, because of that, when I saw Eva, I thought, "I give up!" [And also that] we were of the same generation. I think there were similarities in [both of our] motivations. That was a story I thought of about three years ago.
大泉 オウムでもそうですが、全然関係ないところから同時多発的アイデアがボコッと出てくる。
Oizumi: It's the same case with Aum. It's like the same idea bursting forth at the same time from completely unconnected places.
竹熊 大人になるイメージが稀薄で、大人にならなきゃいけないけれど、どんな大人になっていいかわからない。そういう状況で三六歳にもなってこんなこと言うのはみっともないんだけど、実際に見つからないのは事実ですね。それで、『エヴァ』もどつぼにはまった感じがした。シンジ君が大人になる話ですよね、ホントは。
Takekuma: Lacking an idea of [what it means] to be an adult, [we] have to become adults, but we don't know what kind of adult we should become. In this condition, having reached thirty-six years of age, it's disgraceful to say such a thing, but we have not actually discovered reality. Because of this, I felt that Eva, too, fell into a state of profound sadness. Eva is really the story of Shinji-kun becoming an adult.
庵野 それは、僕が大人になるってことと同じですよね。シンジ君って昔の庵野さんなんですかって聞かれるんですが、違うんですよ。シンジ君はいまの僕です(笑）。一四歳の少年を演じるくらい僕はまだ幼いんです。どう見ても精神医学的に言うならオーラルステージ（口唇期）ですよね。メランコリーな口唇依存型。まあ、これは不定しようのない事実で、しかたがないことなんです。そこから前に進もうと思ってたんですが、それは結果として自己への退行になってしまった。袋小路ですね。
Anno: That's the same thing as I [myself] becoming an adult. I'm often asked if Shinji-kun [represents] an old version of myself, but that's not the case. Shinji-kun is my current self (laughing). I act like a fourteen-year-old boy; I'm still childish. No matter how you look at it, in psychological terms, I'm [still] in the Oral Stage. A melancholic oral-dependent type. Well, this is a truth I can't deny; I can't do anything about it. I wanted to move forward from there, but the result was that I ended up regressing back to myself. A dead end.
竹熊 となると、ある意味ではアン・ハッピーエンドですよね。『エヴァ』の最終回は。
Takekuma: Then in a certain sense the final episode of Eva is an unhappy ending.
庵野 ある意味ではそうですね。そこから前に出たのがハッピーと取れば、アン・ハッピーなんですけれど。これでよしとすればハッピーエンドですね。
Anno: Right, in a certain sense. If you take moving beyond that as being happy, then it's an unhappy ending. If you think it's fine, then it's a happy ending.
竹熊 一応、ハッピーエンドの体裁は取ってますもんね。
Takekuma: At first glance, it takes the form of a happy ending.
庵野 サントラＣＤの最後の曲のタイトルにしてるんですよ。『グッド・オア・ドント・ビー』。ＯＫか生きるな、か。良いか悪いか。両方あるのか。そういうところに僕の心情をちょっと出してしまった。
Anno: I made [the idea?] the title of the last song on the soundtrack CD. "Good, or Don't Be." OK, or don't live. Good or bad. [Or] is it both? I revealed a little bit of my feelings there.
でも、僕らはこのまま成長を止めてモラトリアムのままずっとグルグル回ってますが、一つはモデリングがなくなったってことだと思うんですよ。人間にオリジナルなんてない。少なくとも日本語を知らなければコミュニケーションをとれないですよね。これはモデリングですよ。親がしゃべった言葉だからこっちに来ている。親が英語をしゃべれば日本にいても英語をしゃべる。友達が日本語をしゃべっていて、何だこれはってことになれば、今度は日本語をしゃべていく。自分ひとりで日本語は発明できない。模倣でしかものはできていかない。その時に一番最初、身近な親兄弟の真似をし始める。親を尊敬して親のあとを継ぐか、反発して親と違う道を行くしかない。どっちにしろモデルがないとどっちにも行けない。
However, I believe that we have stopped growing where we are and are going around in circles under a [kind of] moratorium, but one [reason] is that we have lost our [capacity for] modeling. There is nothing original in human beings. If I don't know Japanese at least, I can't communicate. Since my parents spoke this way, that's how I speak. If my parents spoke English I would speak English, even if I was in Japan. If my friends spoke Japanese, and I didn't know what [they were saying], then I would go over to speaking in Japanese. I can't invent the Japanese language myself. I'm only capable of doing things through imitation. At that time I begin to imitate my parents and siblings, those closest to me. I can either honor my parents and succeed them, or rebel and follow a different path from my parents. Either way, if I don't have a model, then I can do neither one.
どんな天才にもインスピレーションを起こすものがありますね。中には僕みたいにアニメやマンガしか見ていないと、そこから思いついたものをパッとやった時には、思いついたものはただ自分の中で忘れていたもので、必ず何か元ネタがあるんですよ。それでハッと気がついて、あっ、あれだったのかってわかって、ちょっと嫌な気がする。そういうものしか見てないから、まあ、それは仕方がない。自分の中に沈降しているものを無意識に引き出しているだけですからね。どんな天才でも花を見た感動を音楽にするとか、小説にするとか、本当にその花を認識しないと、小説も音楽も出てこない。人間は無いからものを作れない。これだけ情報量が氾濫していて、何をモデルにしていいのかわからないんです。特にテレビみたいなものから擬似的な情報がバーッと出てきて、自分のクラスメートの生年月日を知らなくても、山口百恵の生年月日は知っているとか(笑）。アイドルのバスト、ウエスト、ヒップのサイズとかいう細かいプロフィールは知っている。クラスメートよりも山口百恵に親近感のある世界だと思うんですよ。現実にいるクラスメートよりテレビの中の人物の方の存在感が大きい。ウァーチャルの方が現実よりも上という認識はすごいですね。そんな中で育っていて、きちんとしたものができたのかっていう気がします。大きくなれば、さすがにそれは嘘だってことになっても、ＮＨＫのニュースでアナウンサーが言われたことを本当ととってしまうんですよね。日本人はそういう傾向が強い。
No matter how much of a genius one is, there is something that awakes inspiration. If, like me, you look at nothing but manga and anime, when you have thought up something and created it, what you have thought up will only be something that you have forgotten; without question there will be some previous source for it. Then you will realize it, and recognize what it was, and feel a little bad. Since that was all you looked at, well, it was inevitable, because you are just unconsciously drawing out those things that have sedimented inside of you. No matter how much of a genius you are, if you are translating the emotions of seeing a [certain] flower into a song or a novel, if you were not really cognizant of that flower, you will not get the novel or the song. Human beings cannot create something out of nothing. With so much information flooding [us], we don't know what we should be modeling. Even if I don't know my classmate's birth date, I'll know on what day Momoe Yamaguchi was born (laughing). I'll know the minute [details of] an idol's profile, like her bust, waist, and hip measurements. It's a world, I think, where you feel closer to Momoe Yamaguchi than to your classmate. Characters on television have a stronger feeling of reality than your classmates who really exist. It's incredible, the awareness that the virtual is higher than the real. Growing up in such an environment, we aren't sure if things that are well done have been created or not. [?] When we get older, even if we recognize that those things are false, we take what the announcer on NHK news says to be true. The Japanese have a strong tendency in this direction.
Oizumi: Takekuma-san, you yourself treated [the concept of] Armageddon in the story of "Child Planet," serialized in [the magazine] "Young Sunday."
竹熊 だから正直、『エヴァ』を見てまいったって思いました。同世代なって。始めた動機には近いものがあったと思いますね。あれも三年くらい前に考えた話なんです。
Takekuma: To be honest, because of that, when I saw Eva, I thought, "I give up!" [And also that] we were of the same generation. I think there were similarities in [both of our] motivations. That was a story I thought of about three years ago.
大泉 オウムでもそうですが、全然関係ないところから同時多発的アイデアがボコッと出てくる。
Oizumi: It's the same case with Aum. It's like the same idea bursting forth at the same time from completely unconnected places.
竹熊 大人になるイメージが稀薄で、大人にならなきゃいけないけれど、どんな大人になっていいかわからない。そういう状況で三六歳にもなってこんなこと言うのはみっともないんだけど、実際に見つからないのは事実ですね。それで、『エヴァ』もどつぼにはまった感じがした。シンジ君が大人になる話ですよね、ホントは。
Takekuma: Lacking an idea of [what it means] to be an adult, [we] have to become adults, but we don't know what kind of adult we should become. In this condition, having reached thirty-six years of age, it's disgraceful to say such a thing, but we have not actually discovered reality. Because of this, I felt that Eva, too, fell into a state of profound sadness. Eva is really the story of Shinji-kun becoming an adult.
庵野 それは、僕が大人になるってことと同じですよね。シンジ君って昔の庵野さんなんですかって聞かれるんですが、違うんですよ。シンジ君はいまの僕です(笑）。一四歳の少年を演じるくらい僕はまだ幼いんです。どう見ても精神医学的に言うならオーラルステージ（口唇期）ですよね。メランコリーな口唇依存型。まあ、これは不定しようのない事実で、しかたがないことなんです。そこから前に進もうと思ってたんですが、それは結果として自己への退行になってしまった。袋小路ですね。
Anno: That's the same thing as I [myself] becoming an adult. I'm often asked if Shinji-kun [represents] an old version of myself, but that's not the case. Shinji-kun is my current self (laughing). I act like a fourteen-year-old boy; I'm still childish. No matter how you look at it, in psychological terms, I'm [still] in the Oral Stage. A melancholic oral-dependent type. Well, this is a truth I can't deny; I can't do anything about it. I wanted to move forward from there, but the result was that I ended up regressing back to myself. A dead end.
竹熊 となると、ある意味ではアン・ハッピーエンドですよね。『エヴァ』の最終回は。
Takekuma: Then in a certain sense the final episode of Eva is an unhappy ending.
庵野 ある意味ではそうですね。そこから前に出たのがハッピーと取れば、アン・ハッピーなんですけれど。これでよしとすればハッピーエンドですね。
Anno: Right, in a certain sense. If you take moving beyond that as being happy, then it's an unhappy ending. If you think it's fine, then it's a happy ending.
竹熊 一応、ハッピーエンドの体裁は取ってますもんね。
Takekuma: At first glance, it takes the form of a happy ending.
庵野 サントラＣＤの最後の曲のタイトルにしてるんですよ。『グッド・オア・ドント・ビー』。ＯＫか生きるな、か。良いか悪いか。両方あるのか。そういうところに僕の心情をちょっと出してしまった。
Anno: I made [the idea?] the title of the last song on the soundtrack CD. "Good, or Don't Be." OK, or don't live. Good or bad. [Or] is it both? I revealed a little bit of my feelings there.
でも、僕らはこのまま成長を止めてモラトリアムのままずっとグルグル回ってますが、一つはモデリングがなくなったってことだと思うんですよ。人間にオリジナルなんてない。少なくとも日本語を知らなければコミュニケーションをとれないですよね。これはモデリングですよ。親がしゃべった言葉だからこっちに来ている。親が英語をしゃべれば日本にいても英語をしゃべる。友達が日本語をしゃべっていて、何だこれはってことになれば、今度は日本語をしゃべていく。自分ひとりで日本語は発明できない。模倣でしかものはできていかない。その時に一番最初、身近な親兄弟の真似をし始める。親を尊敬して親のあとを継ぐか、反発して親と違う道を行くしかない。どっちにしろモデルがないとどっちにも行けない。
However, I believe that we have stopped growing where we are and are going around in circles under a [kind of] moratorium, but one [reason] is that we have lost our [capacity for] modeling. There is nothing original in human beings. If I don't know Japanese at least, I can't communicate. Since my parents spoke this way, that's how I speak. If my parents spoke English I would speak English, even if I was in Japan. If my friends spoke Japanese, and I didn't know what [they were saying], then I would go over to speaking in Japanese. I can't invent the Japanese language myself. I'm only capable of doing things through imitation. At that time I begin to imitate my parents and siblings, those closest to me. I can either honor my parents and succeed them, or rebel and follow a different path from my parents. Either way, if I don't have a model, then I can do neither one.
どんな天才にもインスピレーションを起こすものがありますね。中には僕みたいにアニメやマンガしか見ていないと、そこから思いついたものをパッとやった時には、思いついたものはただ自分の中で忘れていたもので、必ず何か元ネタがあるんですよ。それでハッと気がついて、あっ、あれだったのかってわかって、ちょっと嫌な気がする。そういうものしか見てないから、まあ、それは仕方がない。自分の中に沈降しているものを無意識に引き出しているだけですからね。どんな天才でも花を見た感動を音楽にするとか、小説にするとか、本当にその花を認識しないと、小説も音楽も出てこない。人間は無いからものを作れない。これだけ情報量が氾濫していて、何をモデルにしていいのかわからないんです。特にテレビみたいなものから擬似的な情報がバーッと出てきて、自分のクラスメートの生年月日を知らなくても、山口百恵の生年月日は知っているとか(笑）。アイドルのバスト、ウエスト、ヒップのサイズとかいう細かいプロフィールは知っている。クラスメートよりも山口百恵に親近感のある世界だと思うんですよ。現実にいるクラスメートよりテレビの中の人物の方の存在感が大きい。ウァーチャルの方が現実よりも上という認識はすごいですね。そんな中で育っていて、きちんとしたものができたのかっていう気がします。大きくなれば、さすがにそれは嘘だってことになっても、ＮＨＫのニュースでアナウンサーが言われたことを本当ととってしまうんですよね。日本人はそういう傾向が強い。
No matter how much of a genius one is, there is something that awakes inspiration. If, like me, you look at nothing but manga and anime, when you have thought up something and created it, what you have thought up will only be something that you have forgotten; without question there will be some previous source for it. Then you will realize it, and recognize what it was, and feel a little bad. Since that was all you looked at, well, it was inevitable, because you are just unconsciously drawing out those things that have sedimented inside of you. No matter how much of a genius you are, if you are translating the emotions of seeing a [certain] flower into a song or a novel, if you were not really cognizant of that flower, you will not get the novel or the song. Human beings cannot create something out of nothing. With so much information flooding [us], we don't know what we should be modeling. Even if I don't know my classmate's birth date, I'll know on what day Momoe Yamaguchi was born (laughing). I'll know the minute [details of] an idol's profile, like her bust, waist, and hip measurements. It's a world, I think, where you feel closer to Momoe Yamaguchi than to your classmate. Characters on television have a stronger feeling of reality than your classmates who really exist. It's incredible, the awareness that the virtual is higher than the real. Growing up in such an environment, we aren't sure if things that are well done have been created or not. [?] When we get older, even if we recognize that those things are false, we take what the announcer on NHK news says to be true. The Japanese have a strong tendency in this direction.
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A couple more for the moment. The same disclaimers about the translation apply. Oizumi's question in the first excerpt refers to the fact that Anno's father is missing a leg (there's at least one other reference to it, but I can't remember if it says somewhere in the two books how he lost it).
From "An Attachment to Deformity"
"Gaianx, the Amateur Group"
From "An Attachment to Deformity"
SPOILER: Show
大泉 お父さんの体のことでコンプレックスがあったという話ですけれど、例えば、『アニメージ』のインタビューでも、ロボットを描いてもどっか身体の一部を消さないと気がすまないってお話でしたが。
Oizumi: About the complex you have because of your father's body... you said, for instance, in an interview with Animage that even when drawing a robot you're not satisfied until you've erased some part of it.
庵野 奇形に対する愛着があるんでしょうね。どっか壊れていないと好きになれない。それは父親の影響だと思うんです。
Anno: Probably I have an attachment towards deformity. I can't love [something] if it's not broken somewhere. I believe that's [due to] the influence of my father['s condition].
大泉 エヴァもよく奇形になりましたよね(笑）。
Oizumi: The Evas often got deformed as well (laughing).
竹熊 トウジは足がなくなったし。あれはなんで死ななかったんですか。
Takekuma: Toji lost his leg. Why didn't he die there?
庵野 殺せなかったんですよ。
Anno: I couldn't kill him.
竹熊 やっぱり。
Takekuma: Of course.
庵野 いや、あの、それはある約束があって、それを反故にしちゃえばよかったなっていまになれば思うんですけれど……。キングレコードのプロヂューサーの方と、いちばん最初に企画をやった時、「企画を出せば通す、どんなもんでも。庵野さんを信用してるから。でも、二つ条件がある。一つは、それで五年、ウチとつきあってくれ。劇場版はよそでとかってことはなしでね。もう一つは、子供を殺さないでくれ。大人は死んでもいいけれど、子供が死ぬのは嫌だ」と言われた。そういう条件があったから殺すことはできなかったですね。
Anno: No, um, I made a certain promise, though I think now I should have broken it. At the very beginiing, when [we] drew up the plan [for Eva], [I met] with the producer, from King Records, who told me, "I will approve the plan you submit, whatever it is, because I have faith in you. However, there will be two conditions. The first one is that you will remain with me for five years. You cannot, for example, do a film version with another [producer]. The additional condition is that you will not kill any children. The adults can die, but I don't want children dying." Because of that condition I couldn't kill [Toji].
Oizumi: About the complex you have because of your father's body... you said, for instance, in an interview with Animage that even when drawing a robot you're not satisfied until you've erased some part of it.
庵野 奇形に対する愛着があるんでしょうね。どっか壊れていないと好きになれない。それは父親の影響だと思うんです。
Anno: Probably I have an attachment towards deformity. I can't love [something] if it's not broken somewhere. I believe that's [due to] the influence of my father['s condition].
大泉 エヴァもよく奇形になりましたよね(笑）。
Oizumi: The Evas often got deformed as well (laughing).
竹熊 トウジは足がなくなったし。あれはなんで死ななかったんですか。
Takekuma: Toji lost his leg. Why didn't he die there?
庵野 殺せなかったんですよ。
Anno: I couldn't kill him.
竹熊 やっぱり。
Takekuma: Of course.
庵野 いや、あの、それはある約束があって、それを反故にしちゃえばよかったなっていまになれば思うんですけれど……。キングレコードのプロヂューサーの方と、いちばん最初に企画をやった時、「企画を出せば通す、どんなもんでも。庵野さんを信用してるから。でも、二つ条件がある。一つは、それで五年、ウチとつきあってくれ。劇場版はよそでとかってことはなしでね。もう一つは、子供を殺さないでくれ。大人は死んでもいいけれど、子供が死ぬのは嫌だ」と言われた。そういう条件があったから殺すことはできなかったですね。
Anno: No, um, I made a certain promise, though I think now I should have broken it. At the very beginiing, when [we] drew up the plan [for Eva], [I met] with the producer, from King Records, who told me, "I will approve the plan you submit, whatever it is, because I have faith in you. However, there will be two conditions. The first one is that you will remain with me for five years. You cannot, for example, do a film version with another [producer]. The additional condition is that you will not kill any children. The adults can die, but I don't want children dying." Because of that condition I couldn't kill [Toji].
"Gaianx, the Amateur Group"
SPOILER: Show
竹熊 ネルフのことをスタジオ・ジブリだと論じた人もいますが（笑）。でも本当はネルフっていうのはガイナックスですよ。
Takekuma: There are people who have argued that Nerv is [a representation of] Studio Ghibli (laughing), but in truth Nerv is [a representation of] Gainax.
庵野 そうなりますね。いわゆるアマチュア集団ですね。
Anno: That's so. It's what you would call an amateur group.
竹熊 庵野さんが作品中のキャラクター全部に投影されているんだけれど、いちおうゲンドウの位置にいたわけですか。何を考えているかわからないけど、とにかくスタッフは従わなくてはならない。
Takekuma: You are projected into every one of the characters in your work, but you were in Gendo's position, right? The staff had to follow you anyway, even though [they] didn't know what [you were] thinking.
庵野 スタンスとしてはそこになります。そんなに投影しているかと思うと、そうでもないと思うんですよ。でも、シャドーであるのは確かですね。
Anno: I'm in that position as far as my standing is concerned. As to whether I'm projecting that much [into him], I don't really think so. But he is certainly my shadow.
竹熊 ドラマ的にいいますと、親子の確執ってことでは、戦いはまだ成立していないですよね。
Takekuma: Speaking in terms of the drama, there is this enmity between parent and child, [but] the [actual] struggle [between them] remains unrealized.
庵野 そうです。あやふゆです。最終話までとっておいたんです。そこでやろうと思って。
Anno: Right. It's vague. I was saving it until the final episode, thinking I would do it then.
大泉 面白いと思ったのはとりあえず母親をみんな殺してしまいますね。あれは庵野さんの母親像みたいのものの投影なんですか？
Oizumi: What I thought was intersting is that at the outset you kill all of the mothers. Was that a projection of something like your [own] maternal image?
庵野 そうですね。
Anno: Yeah.
竹熊 あそこは僕と違いますね。僕の場合、父親が不在になるんですよ。僕の世代で父親と対決っていうのは珍しいと思う。
Takekuma: For me, it was different. For me, it was my father who wasn't there. It's unusual, I think, [for people of] my generation to be confronting their fathers.
庵野 あれも本当の父親なのかって思いますね。まあ、父親という血のつながった親子じゃなくって、もうちょっと世間とかシステムの代表だと思う。だから、ああいう顔なんです。
Anno: I'm not sure that it's a real father [that Gendo represents]. Well, not a father in the sense of a parent with a blood relation to his child, but more, I think, [in the sense of being] a representative of society or the system. That's why he has that expression.
竹熊 それでわりと、とらえどころがないんですね。
Takekuma: So, he's kind of amorphous.
庵野 使徒っていうのもそうです。ああいうふうにとらえどころがないように見せるのは、僕の中で世間というのものが、はっきりしなくて、敵の存在がはっきりしないから。
Anno: The angels are the same. I made them appear amorphous in that way because, for me, society is unclear, the enemy is unclear.
竹熊 ゲンドウは世間の枠や圧力そのものなんだ。
Takekuma: Gendo is [a representation of] the boundries or the pressure of society itself.
庵野 そうかもしれない。世間そのものかもしれない。
Anno: That might be it. Perhaps Gendo is [a representation of] society itself.
Takekuma: There are people who have argued that Nerv is [a representation of] Studio Ghibli (laughing), but in truth Nerv is [a representation of] Gainax.
庵野 そうなりますね。いわゆるアマチュア集団ですね。
Anno: That's so. It's what you would call an amateur group.
竹熊 庵野さんが作品中のキャラクター全部に投影されているんだけれど、いちおうゲンドウの位置にいたわけですか。何を考えているかわからないけど、とにかくスタッフは従わなくてはならない。
Takekuma: You are projected into every one of the characters in your work, but you were in Gendo's position, right? The staff had to follow you anyway, even though [they] didn't know what [you were] thinking.
庵野 スタンスとしてはそこになります。そんなに投影しているかと思うと、そうでもないと思うんですよ。でも、シャドーであるのは確かですね。
Anno: I'm in that position as far as my standing is concerned. As to whether I'm projecting that much [into him], I don't really think so. But he is certainly my shadow.
竹熊 ドラマ的にいいますと、親子の確執ってことでは、戦いはまだ成立していないですよね。
Takekuma: Speaking in terms of the drama, there is this enmity between parent and child, [but] the [actual] struggle [between them] remains unrealized.
庵野 そうです。あやふゆです。最終話までとっておいたんです。そこでやろうと思って。
Anno: Right. It's vague. I was saving it until the final episode, thinking I would do it then.
大泉 面白いと思ったのはとりあえず母親をみんな殺してしまいますね。あれは庵野さんの母親像みたいのものの投影なんですか？
Oizumi: What I thought was intersting is that at the outset you kill all of the mothers. Was that a projection of something like your [own] maternal image?
庵野 そうですね。
Anno: Yeah.
竹熊 あそこは僕と違いますね。僕の場合、父親が不在になるんですよ。僕の世代で父親と対決っていうのは珍しいと思う。
Takekuma: For me, it was different. For me, it was my father who wasn't there. It's unusual, I think, [for people of] my generation to be confronting their fathers.
庵野 あれも本当の父親なのかって思いますね。まあ、父親という血のつながった親子じゃなくって、もうちょっと世間とかシステムの代表だと思う。だから、ああいう顔なんです。
Anno: I'm not sure that it's a real father [that Gendo represents]. Well, not a father in the sense of a parent with a blood relation to his child, but more, I think, [in the sense of being] a representative of society or the system. That's why he has that expression.
竹熊 それでわりと、とらえどころがないんですね。
Takekuma: So, he's kind of amorphous.
庵野 使徒っていうのもそうです。ああいうふうにとらえどころがないように見せるのは、僕の中で世間というのものが、はっきりしなくて、敵の存在がはっきりしないから。
Anno: The angels are the same. I made them appear amorphous in that way because, for me, society is unclear, the enemy is unclear.
竹熊 ゲンドウは世間の枠や圧力そのものなんだ。
Takekuma: Gendo is [a representation of] the boundries or the pressure of society itself.
庵野 そうかもしれない。世間そのものかもしれない。
Anno: That might be it. Perhaps Gendo is [a representation of] society itself.
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Hm.It all looks interesting so far; These really seem to be actual, very in-depht analyses etc.
Looking forward to the rest of it, esp. juicy bits on the characters.
...It would have never occurred to me to somehow connect Gendo to "the pressure of society" etc, I mean, Gendo himself is not a particularly conforming person who gives a crap about ettiquette or any such thing
- perhaps this is meant in the sense of how Shinji percieves him as this "dark, scrutinizing shadow".
...it is rather dissillusioning to hear that they weren't allowed to kill any of the adolescents to begin with (other than Rei and Kaworu, apparently, but they weren't fully human.) ; Many of these intermediate ideas just look a lot more cliched and stupid than the finalized product - but I guess there is a reason they didn't get used.
Looking forward to the rest of it, esp. juicy bits on the characters.
...It would have never occurred to me to somehow connect Gendo to "the pressure of society" etc, I mean, Gendo himself is not a particularly conforming person who gives a crap about ettiquette or any such thing
- perhaps this is meant in the sense of how Shinji percieves him as this "dark, scrutinizing shadow".
...it is rather dissillusioning to hear that they weren't allowed to kill any of the adolescents to begin with (other than Rei and Kaworu, apparently, but they weren't fully human.) ; Many of these intermediate ideas just look a lot more cliched and stupid than the finalized product - but I guess there is a reason they didn't get used.
I wanted to try harvesting the rice
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
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Yeah, maybe he is a kind of image of how Anno perceives society, or social authority.
Anyway, since it might be awkward just to post a series of excerpts here, I created a tumblr page where I can just keep adding them haphazardly ^^ The page is at [url]http://1731298478.tumblr.com[/url]. When I have finished I will probably collect them and post them here. If you have any questions about the translations feel free to ask me in this thread, or to message me directly.
Well I guess all that went out the window when Anno made EOE. So, I guess that this proves once and fro all that Toji, as far as Anno is concerned, was meant to die as he did in the manga. I wonder if Anno would have killed off anybody further during the series if he didn't have that restriction in place.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.
And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996
And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996
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Well, there were some rumors about him having Asuka pull an Ophelia, but I don't trust them - Asuka feels like the sort of character that you might wildly bang on with a hammer, but don't kill permanently. That would just ruin something.
But then again, she may only have become that somewhere during the production of the show, with that restraint in place. Either way, Number-kun is doing all of us a huge service with this tumblr thing *hug*
Again, we can see that taking quotes out of context can do a lot. "I have no emotional attachment to Rei" sound rather different than the full thing (emphasis mine):
SPOILER: Show
Oizumi: When I look at Rei Ayanami, I’m reminded of the girls in Aum. In short, they’re all dependent upon their Guru, Asahara.
Takekuma: [She devotes herself] wholeheartedly, with a heart like a hard shell.
Oizumi: Exactly. And, on the topic of substitutions, can we think of Rei Ayanami as being a person like your mother?
Anno: That’s not quite right.
Takekuma: There’s also nothing like the image of a girl you previously dated [in her], right?
Anno: No. Well, Rei is probably [the character] closest to my deep psyche. I don’t really understand her. … The truth is, I have no emotional attachment to her at all.
Takekuma: Huh? Is that right?
Anno: Yeah. I have no emotional attachment to her. Well, Nobita-san wrote [about her] as being a symbol of schizophrenia. There were parts where that was actually what I wanted to do [with her].
Takekuma: But she is the character best received by the fans in the outside world. Even I was drawn in by Rei at the beginning.
Oizumi: That’s right. Megumi Hayashibara’s voice was also incredible.
Anno: But Rei is [the character] I least understand. In addition, I’m not really that interested in her. There were parts where that’s what I was consciously doing, actively trying to put aside my presuppositions, trying to bring out the most primitive, the most core, the purest parts within me.
Oizumi: So Rei is perhaps [something] embedded in your unconscious [that] can’t be expressed in words.
Anno: Even in the midst of making Eva, I suddenly realized I had forgotten her. Her very existence. In episode seven, I remembered, and added a single shot with Rei. I had no emotional attachment to her at all. I think that was fine, because she didn’t appear in episode eight, not even for a single shot.
(From the Introduction to Chapter Four / Parano)
Takekuma: [She devotes herself] wholeheartedly, with a heart like a hard shell.
Oizumi: Exactly. And, on the topic of substitutions, can we think of Rei Ayanami as being a person like your mother?
Anno: That’s not quite right.
Takekuma: There’s also nothing like the image of a girl you previously dated [in her], right?
Anno: No. Well, Rei is probably [the character] closest to my deep psyche. I don’t really understand her. … The truth is, I have no emotional attachment to her at all.
Takekuma: Huh? Is that right?
Anno: Yeah. I have no emotional attachment to her. Well, Nobita-san wrote [about her] as being a symbol of schizophrenia. There were parts where that was actually what I wanted to do [with her].
Takekuma: But she is the character best received by the fans in the outside world. Even I was drawn in by Rei at the beginning.
Oizumi: That’s right. Megumi Hayashibara’s voice was also incredible.
Anno: But Rei is [the character] I least understand. In addition, I’m not really that interested in her. There were parts where that’s what I was consciously doing, actively trying to put aside my presuppositions, trying to bring out the most primitive, the most core, the purest parts within me.
Oizumi: So Rei is perhaps [something] embedded in your unconscious [that] can’t be expressed in words.
Anno: Even in the midst of making Eva, I suddenly realized I had forgotten her. Her very existence. In episode seven, I remembered, and added a single shot with Rei. I had no emotional attachment to her at all. I think that was fine, because she didn’t appear in episode eight, not even for a single shot.
(From the Introduction to Chapter Four / Parano)
It's more a weird artist thing than Rei being supposed to be a shallow unimportant plot device.
Also, the more I read of this, the more I get the impression that Anno needs a freakin hug. Direly. I sure hope his wife has since remedied that.
Then again, look at Q...
I wanted to try harvesting the rice
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
Rumors? Just the Kaibunsho said that, I thought?
(I'd also point out that one of the EoE draft endings does seem to kill off Asuka, so it's not necessarily so inconceivable.)
Well, he made Kare Kano after NGE and Eva seems to have been a very cathatic experience for him so i'm not sure if he's exactly in need of hugs. Most of what i've read from Anno give me the impression he's more of a loner anyway.
By the way, as others have said, thank you very much for all the translations Number-kun. All these Shizo/Parano articles are extremely interesting and this is likely my favorite EGF thread because of it.
By the way, the excerpt from "Nothing changes in the world" put EoTV in a new light for me.
SPOILER: Show
Takekuma: There are people who will not rest satisfied with works [of fiction], but feel they must change reality. Is there something within you that is “Asahara-like,” or are you conscious of something like a desire to change reality?
Anno: I think so.
Oiziumi: Is it that you are trying to do this through the production of anime?
Anno: Mmm. Right. To an extent I was also trying to change the consciousness of the anime industry itself. However, it seems to have been a failure.
Takekuma: Do you mean that people in the industry regard Eva as having been an exceptional case?
Anno: That’s right. [They see] (Gainax) as an exception. So they don’t take [us] as one of their own. And that’s given rise to jealousy, abuse, and slander - to something like an inferiority complex. But there were a few people [on our side]. There were certainly people who tried to understand what it is we were doing, or who understood fairly well. I was happy about that. There were [such] people both in the industry and among the fans. So there was value in doing it, I think.
Takekuma: So you’re not in despair.
Anno: I do feel despair, but that’s where [you] begin from. Everything begins out of despair. In the words of Yukio Mishima, “love is born only out of despair”; “true reformers do not speak of [their] despair.” I think that might be the case.
(From “Nothing Changes in the World” / Parano)
The spirit and body cannot question one another. The spirit can only ask questions [of the body]. It can never receive answers, only an echo. … Love is born only out of despair. Spirit against nature; love is the movement of the spirit towards something it cannot comprehend. Then why question? For spirit, there is no way of demonstrating its existence save through questioning something [else]. An unquestioning spirit’s [very] existence is placed in jeopardy.
Yukio Mishima, Kinjiki (Forbidden Colors) [Source]
Every reformer is shadowed by a profound despair; but reformers do not speak of [their] despair. Despite the fact that despair is the fundamental power behind their idealistic passion, their ideals [themselves] are oriented towards that power’s eradication.
Yukio Mishima, “Utsukushiki Jidai” (“Belle Époque”) [Source]
"Every line is a joy" -Kaworu Nagisa.
"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.
"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.
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