GUNBUSTER - before EVA anno's greatest work ;D

[Hyper Shinchan]

All mecha anime are hybrids but Gunbuster completely lacks any elaboration about the enemies and their motives, except for that little silly explanation about the bacteria and rubbish, which makes it a very peculiar mecha anime, I guess it could be inspired by some live action series loved by Anno; Evangelion is actually much more conventional from this point of view, insofar Angels attempt to understand and communicate with humans, something we never see from Gunbuster's Space Monsters.

[Dream]

It's like my religion.

Hmm, if i were to ask why, would i regret it?

[Xavierla]

Hmm, if i were to ask why, would i regret it?

The first time I saw Gunbuster i was actually looking for Diebuster not knowing that it was a sequel and after seeing Gunbuster my entire preference of all media was enhanced.

All mecha anime are hybrids but Gunbuster completely lacks any elaboration about the enemies and their motives, except for that little silly explanation about the bacteria and rubbish, which makes it a very peculiar mecha anime, I guess it could be inspired by some live action series loved by Anno; Evangelion is actually much more conventional from this point of view, insofar Angels attempt to understand and communicate with humans, something we never see from Gunbuster's Space Monsters.

That may be true but Gunbuster makes you think about life and how you shouldn't take your relationships with others for granted because you will only have them for a limited time. It takes two to reach the top and Evangelion doesn't send you that message.

[Dream]

But that doesn't tell me anything about why Gunbuster is such a good series that it completely changed one person's worldview.

That may be true but Gunbuster makes you think about life and how you shouldn't take your relationships with others for granted because you will only have them for a limited time. It takes two to reach the top and Evangelion doesn't send you that message.

[Hyper Shinchan]

Well, Last B doesn't send that message for sure.

[Xavierla]

But that doesn't tell me anything about why Gunbuster is such a good series that it completely changed one person's worldview.

It's that it did in a highly emotional way. From time dilation to people viewing very graphic deaths Gunbuster was just more realistic than any other anime I had seen before hand. It was what allowed me to like Evangelion, it was more realistic and deep. Diebuster and Gurren Lagann are good but they are by no means as deep and emotional as Gunbuster and Eva.

[hui43210]

Just finished Gunbuster 1 today, holy crap was this better than Gurren Lagann(now THAT show is over-rated). Eva is still the life-changer for me tho.

Now in response to the monsters not being developed or explained..... who cares? Its about the characters and their relationships, there was an enemy, bug-monsters, did'nt need any more than that for me. Now, onto Gunbuster 2!

[robersora]

Now, onto Gunbuster 2!

This... will be interesting.

[pwhodges]

was this better than Gurren Lagann(now THAT show is over-rated). [...] Now, onto Gunbuster 2!

It'll be interesting to see your reaction to Diebuster, given how much of it feeds into Gurren Lagann.

[hui43210]

It'll be interesting to see your reaction to Diebuster, given how much of it feeds into Gurren Lagann.

Ya..... I got that sense from seeing the op on youtube. Well I'll give my 2 cents in a couple of days or so.

UPDATE

Just finished Diebuster, here's some thoughts

Gunbuster: 9/10

Diebuster/Gunbuster 2: 8.8/10 (Eps 1-3: Okay, but fun, Eps 4-6, blew me away!)

Gurren Lagann: 5/10

If you're wondering why I liked Diebuster so much more than GL, I actually liked the characters in DB when I did'nt in GL. I liked the way the story progressed in GL and the music, but I hated the GL Mechs, beastman, fights, and the be a man at all costs and it'll work out speech every friggin episode! Someone feels suicidal? Just whoop his ass then he'll feel better.

For me, Noriko going super saiyan in episode 4 was way cooler than some big ass drill, and the tie-back to Gunbuster 1 at the end of ep 6, FUCK YES! Basically, I liked the way Diebuster told its story and its fights better than Gurren Lagenn.

[Xavierla]

Ya..... I got that sense from seeing the op on youtube. Well I'll give my 2 cents in a couple of days or so.

UPDATE

Just finished Diebuster, here's some thoughts

Gunbuster: 9/10

Diebuster/Gunbuster 2: 8.8/10 (Eps 1-3: Okay, but fun, Eps 4-6, blew me away!)

Gurren Lagann: 5/10

If you're wondering why I liked Diebuster so much more than GL, I actually liked the characters in DB when I did'nt in GL. I liked the way the story progressed in GL and the music, but I hated the GL Mechs, beastman, fights, and the be a man at all costs and it'll work out speech every friggin episode! Someone feels suicidal? Just whoop his ass then he'll feel better.

For me, Noriko going super saiyan in episode 4 was way cooler than some big ass drill, and the tie-back to Gunbuster 1 at the end of ep 6, FUCK YES! Basically, I liked the way Diebuster told its story and its fights better than Gurren Lagenn.

THIS! I mean I love gurren lagann but I think we can all agree that it gets the majority of it's material from gunbuster however gunbuster does a better job at telling it's story. 6-7/10 for GL if u ask me.

[kuribo-04]

Gunbuster: 8/10
Gurren Lagann: 9/10

That's my score. Gunbuster's fanservice is too stupid sometimes, and the emotions of the characters are...exaggerated I think? They don't feel natural (Edit: sometimes).
Have no complaints about TTGL. Is it a masterpiece? No. But it is almost perfect at what it does, and beautiful. And it kinda motivated me. Gunbuster didn't.

Can we agree that both are great shows?

[robersora]

I'm sorry, but somebody who criticises that Gunbuster's display of the character's emotions is too exaggerated, while using KLK's Ryuuko as avatar and claiming that GL (the Queen of exaggerating everything) is great nevertheless, loses all credibility to me.

[kuribo-04]

I'm sorry, but somebody who criticises that Gunbuster's display of the character's emotions is too exaggerated, while using KLK's Ryuuko as avatar and claiming that GL (the Queen of exaggerating everything) is great nevertheless, loses all credibility to me.

:(
But those two shows take themselves far less serious. It isn't the same tone as Gunbuster at all. And I said sometimes.

Edit: And yes, I think Noriko's reaction to Smith's death feels far more forced than Simon's reaction to Kamina's death.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

That's my score. Gunbuster's fanservice is too stupid sometimes, and the emotions of the characters are...exaggerated I think?

On the whole fan service front, there is actually some brilliant character depth displayed in the simple states of nudity the characters occasionally have around one another.

In the bath scene in Episode 2, we see Noriko and Kazumi bathing together. The Nudity shows vulnerability the two feel comfortable expressing between one another, even though their relationship isn’t sexual in nature. Jung Freud barges in unannounced and completely nude and forcibly engages them in conversation. This further solidifies her relationship with these other girls to be intrusive and (in Kazumi’s case) competitive. She initially cares nothing for the vulnerabilities of Noriko and Kazumi.

The lack of nudity between Noriko and her boyfriend Smith suggests that she has yet to be vulnerable in front of him. Instead, he is taken away prematurely and is immediately replaced with the GunBuster Machine. It’s almost as though the universe denied her to share intimacy with anyone other than the GunBuster and those who pilot it. (Kazumi.)

But there is nudity elsewhere, and it is usually when Noriko feels vulnerable or confused. In Episode 4 or 5 (I forget) she takes a shower, all while being concerned over Kazumi’s vulnerability with her emotions concerning Coach.

In Episode 6 Jung Freud willingly leaves the mission to Noriko and Kazumi in two different ways. Once in just giving the keys to the GunBuster back to Kazumi after her long departure from piloting, and then yet again when she decides to leave them and head back to Earth in her Mass Produced Buster Machine. This shows the complete role reversal of her character established in the bath scene in Episode 2. Rather than imposing upon the charaters' vulnerabilities, she leaves them alone to accomplish their task.

And finally, solidifying the idea that nudity equals vulnerability and even unity, Noriko rips her uniform in the GunBuster, revealing the breast over her heart as the GunBuster Machine removes its own “heart,” and they finally ignite the Buster Machine 3. Her fate was never to be vulnerable with Smith, but rather with Kazumi and the GunBuster Machine.

Granted, all of this context doesn’t keep the fan service from feeling silly most of the time. Most of the show is fun and lighthearted, and the scenes that show some exposed skin reflect the show’s playfulness accordingly. And the show does have its tonal flaws from time to time, such as the reaction to Smith’s death. (The death scene itself, though, is actually relatively well executed and a bit bleak, as far as death scenes go.) But at the same time this tone doesn’t negate the context of vulnerability being symbolized through the nudity throughout the show. In my opinion, it’s one of the better uses of fan service without the show feeling the need to completely deconstruct it at some point, vis–à–vis NGE.

[kuribo-04]

Umm, you convinced me. xD
I also agree that the death scene itself is really good.

[Gendo'sPapa]

Gunbuster is the superior work. The fan service can get clunky at times but the character work & the sharp, pointed focus of the narrative is magical. Plus, it's one of the few works of art along with The Forever War & soon Christopher Nolan's Interstellar (100% certain of this) to deal with time dilation & deals with it perfectly. It's a show I could watch any day without any problem.

Gurren Lagann is great too but it becomes excessively repetitive & pretty much all the characters except for maybe Yoko are one-note. The heroes achieve a new level of skill/power & crush their enemies in a moment of pure baddassery. Everything's cool for a while, then a new bad guy comes along & is so outrageously overpowered it's seemingly impossible that they could ever beat them. Then Simon upgrades his mecha & in a moment of pure baddassery crushes said enemy with ease. Everything's cool for a while & then a new bad guy comes along & is so outrageously overpowered it's seemingly impossible that they could ever beat them. Rinse, wash, repeat.

[kuribo-04]

Gurren Lagann is great too but it becomes excessively repetitive & pretty much all the characters except for maybe Yoko are one-note. The heroes achieve a new level of skill/power & crush their enemies in a moment of pure baddassery. Everything's cool for a while, then a new bad guy comes along & is so outrageously overpowered it's seemingly impossible that they could ever beat them. Then Simon upgrades his mecha & in a moment of pure baddassery crushes said enemy with ease. Everything's cool for a while & then a new bad guy comes along & is so outrageously overpowered it's seemingly impossible that they could ever beat them. Rinse, wash, repeat.

But doesn't Gunbuster do the same?
For me it's about why the character is badass. In episode 4 of Gunbuster Noriko just decides that she won't cry anymore and...that's it. In episode 11 of Gurren Lagann it's a lot more emotional (at least for me).
When you see Simon being a badass for the 100th time and shaping his goggles into Kamina glasses, it's emotive because he realizes that, yes, he is a great person like Kamina was, something he still kind of denies in episode 14.
Also, it would have been repetetive for me, but then they started throwing galaxies at each other.

[Gendo'sPapa]

Perhaps.

Maybe it's just the character work for me. I love both shows mind you though I prefer the humanity in Gunbuster more. In GL, once Simon is "given" Nia - "the cute girl in a box" - he overcomes all his feelings of doubt & becomes an entirely different character entirely. For the entire second half of the series I don't remember one moment where Simon worries or doubts that he won't come out on top of any problems thrown at him. Sure he's confused by the politics in the third arch but otherwise it's all "Yeah, things look tough but I got this". It's a severe dichotomy in the character of Simon where one version of his character - the meek, relatable, intentionally Shinji-esque Gainax style protagonist - is re-written into a fan-wish fulfillment character for the second half of the show. Simon stops being himself at the end of episode 11 & becomes an entirely new & completely 2-Dimensional character for the rest of the show.

I still love Gurren Lagann but for me it's all surface level work. You can argue about there being themes & subtext but it's all really shallow & without any real thought put into what it all means. GL is a case of talented artists - Hiroyuki Imaishi is the best anime director working in TV today - using the tools of the medium to tell the best story in the format.

Gunbuster meanwhile is a show where an artist is taking something mainstream & traditional - for anime at least - & transforms it into something more.

[robersora]

^
^
I'm sorry kuribo-04 but your examples and approaching for why GL is better is a very shallow one. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but if you want to look at a medium as art, you have to start examining differently than which character did what in a more badass way. And how cool something looks.


Gurren Lagann's trick is to condense roughly 300 Episodes of your run-of-the-mill Shounen-title into 30. That includes budget, story-progression and awe-factor. When you watch it for the first time it is indeed endearing, fun and exciting, which is, why in my opinion GL is Shounen done right. You have spectacle and emotion; a perfect roller coaster of entertainment. But in the end, it remains very shallow. Yes you can take away some lessons, and superficial messages, but if you try to dig deeper, you will notice, under the very awesome surface, there is not a whole lot of substance to be found. This is of course not a bad thing. I too love my well-crafted entertainment, and would never say Gurren Lagann is shitty. It exceeds in what it thrives to do, and for that alone it has earned my respect, even if I hadn't been entertained by it.

But if you start comparing it to Gunbuster it just falls flat on every level. Gunbuster has such a wide array of themes and substance which are additionally presented in a avery entertaining manner. Even if you look at Gunbuster only superficially there are so much more themes you can think about than Gurren Lagann has (the science in particular), but it will also hold up if you try to watch for something deeper in meaning (especially the losing of school friends while growing up is portrayed extremely well). If you then additionally consider when Gunbuster was made, and see how well it has aged, and how relevant it remained, you can clearly see only a very uncritical person would still say GL is superior.

[s](Well, Gurren Lagann might age well too, but something devoid of real meaning cannot lose substance over time)[/s]

Normally I don't like to take such a lofty position, but Gunbuster is one of the few Anime-titles that deserves to get a better treatment from the people who watch it.



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(great, I put so much work into crafting that text, only to see Gendo's Papa leapfrog me. well, at least, we seem to have the same opinion, lol)