GUNBUSTER - before EVA anno's greatest work ;D

This is for the non-Eva goings on at Gainax, both old and new.

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Postby DevRei17 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:43 am

I saw Gunbuster a while back and I absolutely loved it. I finally getting the show for Christmas. :w00:
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Postby JLCL01 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:19 am

The DVD boxet for this series is at my local FYE. Although, it was months ago since I've seen it there. I hope it's still there.

Also, does anyone else have any gashapon items of Noriko?

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Postby DevRei17 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:06 pm

View Original PostJLCL01 wrote:The DVD boxet for this series is at my local FYE. Although, it was months ago since I've seen it there.

Get it if they have it. You won't regret it.
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Postby shinji_ryoji_89 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:53 am

I just saw Diebuster and although it doesn't quite have the same emotional heights as its predecessor, it is a great work all on its own. It left me wanting more. The animation was amazng, characters were fascinating and it was full of intrigue. Perhaps a bit too action centered for my taste, but still a great OVA nevertheless. I loved it.

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Postby DevRei17 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:05 pm

View Original Postshinji_ryoji_89 wrote:I just saw Diebuster and although it doesn't quite have the same emotional heights as its predecessor, it is a great work all on its own. It left me wanting more.
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Postby Viking » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:04 pm

Replying to an almost one year old post... but BTW

I've seen GunBuster two days ago, I've finally found the time and will to watch it.
It was strange to see the "prototypes" ( as I like to say ) of the characters and the situations in Nadia and NGE ( from the similarities of Jung with Asuka to the first operation of the GunBuster with a time limited operativity of 10 minutes ).
I must admit that I don't like very much super-robot anime, but I know Anno did instead like them a lot, and considering how much the GunBuster is used in the show...

BTW I'm now considering to watch DieBuster. Is that serie worth of three hours of my spare time?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:06 pm

View Original PostViking wrote:BTW I'm now considering to watch DieBuster. Is that serie worth of three hours of my spare time?
Opinions vary wildly. Diebuster is definitely a product of FLCL-era Gainax.

I tend towards the views expressed here -- http://www.therossman.com/rrr/anime/gunbuster_1_vs_2.html
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Postby Viking » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:23 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Opinions vary wildly. Diebuster is definitely a product of FLCL-era Gainax.

I tend towards the views expressed here -- http://www.therossman.com/rrr/anime/gunbuster_1_vs_2.html


Really, thank you! You just helped me to avoid wasting three hours of my spare time! :smirk:

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Postby toe mash » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:50 pm

View Original PostViking wrote:Really, thank you! You just helped me to avoid wasting three hours of my spare time! :smirk:

Bye

Besides being a very good series by itself, it's worth watching Diebuster just for the amazing ending (and some jaw dropping animation as well). You're making a huge mistake not even checking it out just because of some extremely over exaggerated review. You should think of it as ONLY 3 hours..

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Postby symbv » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:17 pm

Rossman has his eccentric kind of taste and like many western reviewers, very opinionated. I advise you to check second and third opinion as well. Don't forget he also said Madoka is something "If you have a high tolerance for stupid people you might enjoy it, but I think you can skip it." and "when you take a step back and realize that you're cheering for the main character to die a painful death instead of saving the day you have to wonder why you're wasting your time with the series in the first place." And I would not even comment on some of his fellow commentators' rants about this and that anime being crap crap crap with their colorful languages. I am not saying Diebuster is great stuff, but I advise more perspectives in knowing about what this anime is about.
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Postby NAveryW » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:55 pm

I've always* wanted to know: what is GUNBUSTER: NeXT GENERATION? A manga, apparently, but about what? Is it in the same canon as the Gunbuster anime but set in its near future like Star Trek?

*"always" meaning "since I found out about it"
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Postby Viking » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:41 pm

View Original Posttoe mash wrote:Besides being a very good series by itself, it's worth watching Diebuster just for the amazing ending (and some jaw dropping animation as well). You're making a huge mistake not even checking it out just because of some extremely over exaggerated review. You should think of it as ONLY 3 hours..


Okay, I understand what you're saying. Let's say I'll probably wait and watch other things before trying DieBuster then.

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Postby cyharding » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:53 pm

Tomorrow, I'm ordering some Christmas presents for some members of my family from Amazon and I'm thinking of getting a copy of Gunbuster for myself since it appears to be at a more reasonable price compared to when it first came out. But I do have a few concerns before I would purchase:

1. I'm still not 100% sure I will like it. If I happened to like other earlier Gainax works such as Nadia (minus the island episodes), would I like this too?

2. Reading earlier posts in this thread, it is the opinion of some that the original OVA series is better than the movie edition. Is there general agreement amongst the other fans over this statement (I'm only asking because as of the moment I'm posting this, the difference in price between the two is about $2.00 rounding up)?

3. Are there any video or quality concerns I should be aware of with this particular edition?

Thanks beforehand for any answers.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:33 am

The OVA is six long episodes; the movie is very heavily edited into the 100 minute run time.
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Postby Alaska Slim » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:15 am

View Original Postsymbv wrote:"when you take a step back and realize that you're cheering for the main character to die a painful death instead of saving the day you have to wonder why you're wasting your time with the series in the first place."

Almost word-for-word my experience with GSD and Gundam Wing. The price I pay to satisfy the robot monkey on my back...

@topic: For myself, I've avoided Diebuster as I feel there's nothing there for me. From what I've read, it doesn't fulfill something leftover from Gunbuster, it's not amazingly retro for the genre in the way that, say, The Big O was, and watching crap merely for the geek cred got old for me after the Star Wars Holiday Special Oh right, Lumpy, something else I wanted dead.

Throw in my truly "WTF?!?" experience with "This Ugly, Yet Beautiful World", and it gives me every reason to avoid Early 00's works by Gainax with mixed-lukewarm comments about it.
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Postby Xard » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:23 pm

Diebuster is pretty damn good taken on its own terms and seen properly as kind of super robot Utena. Because that's what it is down to skin colours of lead girls!

Anyway, time to bump the Gunbuster thread with genuine material for conversation. Material that may be slightly disturbing and unsightly to some members of the forum.


Namely, ak recently wrote great series of posts covering the strong presence of Japanese imperialism and jingoism, revanchism towards west and general ridiculous "I hate western culture" lolanno fantasies of one-upping gaijins - sentiments that are not atypical for Japanese fiction of the era.

Nevertheless the naive, excessive nationalist fantasies are something I'm sure many here would prefer to ignore entirely. But the text (especially the literal text as ak makes very clear!) speaks for itself:

Imperialism, Translation, Gunbuster (Episode One)

Imperialism, Translation, Gunbuster (Episode Two)

Imperialism, Translation, Gunbuster (Episode Three)

Imperialism, Translation, Gunbuster (Episode Four)

Imperialism, Translation, Gunbuster (Episode Five)

Imperialism, Translation, Gunbuster (Episode Six)


I don't agree with every single interpretation but overall case is undeniable and parts are absolutely brilliant and something I would've never noticed (thanks to knowledge of Japanese language needed). In particular the peculiar scene composition that has always bugged me about ep 2's notorious fanservice scene is marvelously decoded in second post.
CONCLUSION

The case of Gunbuster presents us with a sustained fantasy of Japanese imperialism. It is very much a work of its time: in 1988 Japanese economic power was at its height and Soviet Russia was on the verge of collapse. Emperor Hirohito was still alive though ailing (he would die the following year), and no one could have guessed the economy was about to crash. The late eighties were also a booming time for Japanese animation at home and abroad and Gunbuster was a smashing success in both fronts.

Gunbuster’s acceptance in markets like the U.S. occurred despite its heavy imperialist rhetoric and imagery. This imperialism is expressed subtly, often textually, in ways that even a highly skilled translator will have a difficult time dealing with. Gunbuster‘s treatment of Okinawa can be seen as a precursor to the Okinawan boom in Japan in the 1990s.


Recommended reading.

Sorry for "tainting" your impressions of the work for a bit...

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Postby symbv » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:41 pm

Ever since I saw the Battleship Yamato raised from sea floor, stronger than ever and became a savior of humanity and Earth, I held no illusion as to how close many anime/manga contents creators feel towards nationalist or military sentiment... Nothing said about Gunbuster really shocked or troubled me. I just shrugged it off as long as they let the human drama and the cuteness stay on the fore and keep their little nationalist fusses relatively hidden.
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Postby Xard » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:00 pm

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Ever since I saw the Battleship Yamato raised from sea floor, stronger than ever and became a savior of humanity and Earth, I held no illusion as to how close many anime/manga contents creators feel towards nationalist or military sentiment...


Indeed. I'm interested in the whole case of "warped" otaku nationalism...it's fascinating but also somewhat off-putting. I'd be lying if I claimed if I didn't find some of Yamato's subtext slightly cringe inducing.

I wonder how you feel about this in general, being chinese and all (if you allow me to call you chinese, I know you have little love for the government that took over HK in 90s :lol:). I'd figure it would be doubly more disturbing and frustrating

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Nothing said about Gunbuster really shocked or troubled me.


I've been aware of this for a while but I must admit I was surprised by the extent all the material fansubbers left untranslated deepens the case. Very interesting.

View Original Postsymbv wrote:I just shrugged it off as long as they let the human drama and the cuteness stay on the fore and keep their little nationalist fusses relatively hidden.


Heheh, yeah true. Thankfully Gunbuster can be followed and understood without "getting" the subtext at all but it's nonetheless there, squirming...

Speaking of cuteness, a good point was raised in discussion:

When Noriko rips out the collapsing generator at the end and bares her breast, there is time for one more solemn bounce. The wish-fulfillment in Gunbuster is, at its heart, not for an imagined Japan or imagined empire, but above all else for an imagined girl, a cute, sexy girl, who has it in her to save the Earth, but just by coincidence happens to also be a hardcore anime fan. This kind of character, who might be termed postmodern (that term would fail to grasp the emotional sincerity with which she was received) is normal today, but not when GAINAX did it in 1988, and that was why Noriko made such an impression. GAINAX was making their appeal to otaku, not to the guys on the sound trucks. Smith Toren dies not so much because of his race or nationality, but for the far more important cause of her remaining boyfriend-free for the sake of the audience.


That Gunbuster and Noriko are those series and characters so often cited as something less pandering/moe moe than modern day's K-ON and the like becomes really hilarious when one realizes that Gunbuster pretty much was first of all offering such fantasy in Noriko which at the time was truly innovative :hahaha:

The difference between Noriko and, say, modern moeblob is mostly aesthetical. There's little difference in core.

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Postby symbv » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:19 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:I wonder how you feel about this in general, being chinese and all (if you allow me to call you chinese, I know you have little love for the government that took over HK in 90s :lol:). I'd figure it would be doubly more disturbing and frustrating

Nationalist subtexts surprisingly did not cause much controversy among Chinese anime fans... My understanding is not that these people are not aware of history of the brutal Japanese Imperialism past (they have to learn it in school after all) but that they can fully segregate the feelings and call anime as entertainment instead of something to drill into to discover the inner thinking of the creators. Yamato is one of the most blatant examples of flaunting the "Japan glory" in anime and indeed when it was aired in HK back in 70s the ship's name was changed to "Peace" instead :lol: But nobody really mind calling it the original name. Even in Graveyard of Fireflies the response by Chinese anime fans is mostly sympathetic - they see there are true victims among Japanese common people in the war - although there are also some vocal minority saying it seemed to blame the allied bombing more than what caused the bombing - that the Japan military and its supporters got Japan into aggression and then war.

As for whether I mind being called Chinese, I AM CHINESE and I am proud to be one. I understand the word Chinese here as a word about ethnicity and it has little to do with the government currently ruling my place or the country. I believe that for a true lover of your country or your race, you would feel proud about who you are but that would not blind you from seeing the flaws and problems that your country or race are having.

View Original PostXard wrote:Speaking of cuteness, a good point was raised in discussion:

That Gunbuster and Noriko are those series and characters so often cited as something less pandering/moe moe than modern day's K-ON and the like becomes really hilarious when one realizes that Gunbuster pretty much was first of all offering such fantasy in Noriko which at the time was truly innovative :hahaha:

The difference between Noriko and, say, modern moeblob is mostly aesthetical. There's little difference in core.

True enough. But I want to add that the appeal of Noriko is not only the appeal to the otaku. For those of us who are also lovers of idols, the almost mirror-like association of Noriko with the real life Noriko (Sakai) was a GOD-Send. My soul went to eleven levels of heaven when I saw Noriko doing all those fan-services :tongue:
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Postby Xard » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:32 pm

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Nationalist subtexts surprisingly did not cause much controversy among Chinese anime fans... My understanding is not that these people are not aware of history of the brutal Japanese Imperialism past (they have to learn it in school after all) but that they can fully segregate the feelings and call anime as entertainment instead of something to drill into to discover the inner thinking of the creators.


Certainly, it's same for me. I love my Gunbuster and Yamato, among others. Still, it's not exactly positive contribution to any work. Thankfully nationalism in Gunbuster is really harmless idly fantasizing and nostalgia for the great and mighty imperial Japan instead of honestly much more offensive and facepalmable anti-semitism in Angel Cop. At least Gunbuster offers plenty of other stuff to chew and focus on and majority of one-upping the "west" is mostly there in backstory...

basically it's like one can get over (to our eyes) strange racism in some old classics and enjoy the good things about it. Nevertheless, the racism is there and should not be swept under a mat

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Even in Graveyard of Fireflies the response by Chinese anime fans is mostly sympathetic - they see there are true victims among Japanese common people in the war - although there are also some vocal minority saying it seemed to blame the allied bombing more than what caused the bombing - that the Japan military and its supporters got Japan into aggression and then war.


Grave of the Fireflies is one of those works that never enter this context in mind, especially since core theme of the story is the stubborn Japanese pride that dooms the children to their death...

View Original Postsymbv wrote:As for whether I mind being called Chinese, I AM CHINESE and I am proud to be one. I understand the word Chinese here as a word about ethnicity and it has little to do with the government currently ruling my place or the country. I believe that for a true lover of your country or your race, you would feel proud about who you are but that would not blind you from seeing the flaws and problems that your country or race are having.


Ahh, thanks. Yeah, I figured I'd hear that. It's just that after last spring I've been slightly unsure if you'd rather identify as Chinese or citizen of Hong Kong first of all :)

View Original Postsymbv wrote:True enough. But I want to add that the appeal of Noriko is not only the appeal to the otaku. For those of us who are also lovers of idols, the almost mirror-like association of Noriko with the real life Noriko (Sakai) was a GOD-Send. My soul went to eleven levels of heaven when I saw Noriko doing all those fan-services :tongue:


y'know, I never realized Noriko Sakai sang Gunbuster's OP before.... O_o

That's certainly interesting! I'm not sure what you mean with "mirror-like associations" between the two Norikos beyond the names though. I mean, being idol and being mecha pilot are quite different things...

and while Noriko's appeal probably works on non-otaku too Gunbuster was very much otakucentric work and I doubt many non-otaku saw it at the time so I think it's justifiable to put it like that :)


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