SPLIT: Asuka in Q/3.0.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

Moderators: Rebuild/OT Moderators, Board Staff

Forum rules
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0 spoiler policy and NOT post any open spoilers outside the password-protected subforum.
Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18667
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:06 pm

View Original PostChrad wrote:Asuka hating, and wanting to hate, Shinji? Sounds like things might just be going the same way as last time after all.


Is there really any evidence Asuka might go this route, though? If anything she seems less inclined to hate Shinji this time around than in NGE, and the dummy system is by definition not Shinji's fault. So why would she hate him?

I could see a whole heapin' pile of hate for Gendo, of course; not only did he give the order, but he forced Shinji to carry it out. But I think Shinji's pretty solidly in the clear with her.

Lucretius
Nerv Employee
Nerv Employee
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 1398
Joined: Jul 31, 2008
Location: Italy, EU
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lucretius » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:10 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:So why would she hate him?

Don't make me come over there.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

Life is a continuous nut-kicking contest where your turn comes last if ever. -majlund

Proud supporter of Shinji x Sachiel

Chrad
Ramiel
Ramiel
Posts: 348
Joined: Sep 02, 2008
Location: Sydney

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chrad » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:39 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Is there really any evidence Asuka might go this route, though? If anything she seems less inclined to hate Shinji this time around than in NGE, and the dummy system is by definition not Shinji's fault. So why would she hate him?

The assumption is that she wouldn't be acting entirely rationally, with Bardiel having drawn the ugliest parts of her to the surface. Getting past this repulsion towards others would then be her main struggle, just like the Asuka of old.

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18667
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:50 pm

View Original PostChrad wrote:The assumption is that she wouldn't be acting entirely rationally, with Bardiel having drawn the ugliest parts of her to the surface. Getting past this repulsion towards others would then be her main struggle, just like the Asuka of old.


I guess I'm not clear on why Bardiel would have any influence on her at all. I've only seen 2.22 a couple of times, but I don't remember anything indicating the pilot had actually been corrupted. What did I miss?

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 10151
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:59 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Is there really any evidence Asuka might go this route, though? If anything she seems less inclined to hate Shinji this time around than in NGE, and the dummy system is by definition not Shinji's fault. So why would she hate him?

Asuka is naturally inclined to blame Shinji. It's not as if she was completely aware of his situation with Gendo and the Dummy Plug. The magic of characters such as these is that misunderstandings can happen, leading to conflicts between characters. Because Shinji didn't do anything to save her, she'll feel she has all the right to blame him for what happened.

Also, Asuka's a teenage girl; do you expect rationality?

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I guess I'm not clear on why Bardiel would have any influence on her at all. I've only seen 2.22 a couple of times, but I don't remember anything indicating the pilot had actually been corrupted. What did I miss?

Ritsuko or Maya, whichever one, says something about making sure there wasn't any mental contamination made by the Angel, or something like that. I'm not quite sure what the exact line is.
- Sachi

I host the discord server for the EvaGeeks forums. Join us! https://discord.gg/aBQ3F6M9yp

Seele00TextOnly
Phospholipid Bilayer
Phospholipid Bilayer
Age: 39
Posts: 1806
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Seele00TextOnly » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:13 pm

(All this Shinji & Asuka in 3.0/Q stuff might need a split to a relevant thread, because this one's supposed to be Shinji & Rei...)

I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here in feeling that Asuka would instead treat the entire affair with a thick veneer of logical indifference. She would say "well, I would have done the same to you. The Angels must be destroyed" regarding her getting mangled in the battle. How would she react to hearing Shinji refused to fight and the Dummy System had to override him? I'm not sure... I think she could very well ridicule him for being "a coward without the grit to do what must be done". And about Shinji getting super powers to save Rei that he never demonstrated to save her? Well, I suppose if she even considered the possibility, she would write it off as "well of course, he loves her and I'm just... me...". Again, these are all surface reactions that would include grains of truth in her ever conflicted true nature.

How would she really feel though? Awful, horrible, wrong, and wronged. Through and through, as always. The brunt of her anger, pain, and rage will probably be unleashed upon herself as usual, unfortunately. If she does unload on Shinji about these things, I think it would only be after a substantial period of hiding behind her tough, no nonsense facade. At least that's something approaching what I'm expecting. Of course none of that takes into account the potential Angel contamination stuff, among myriad other factors.
Shinji embraces the otaku empowerment fantasy and dives headfirst into his mother's basement. -Chrad
Acts of man are better than acts of god. -Misato

Lucretius
Nerv Employee
Nerv Employee
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 1398
Joined: Jul 31, 2008
Location: Italy, EU
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lucretius » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:42 pm

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:And about Shinji getting super powers to save Rei that he never demonstrated to save her? Well, I suppose if she even considered the possibility, she would write it off as "well of course, he loves her and I'm just... me...".


That sounds far too understanding for any version of Asuka. Or any person in her place, really. She honestly would have plenty of reason to be outraged, especially if she thought that.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

Life is a continuous nut-kicking contest where your turn comes last if ever. -majlund

Proud supporter of Shinji x Sachiel

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 10151
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:07 pm

View Original PostLucretius wrote:That sounds far too understanding for any version of Asuka. Or any person in her place, really. She honestly would have plenty of reason to be outraged, especially if she thought that.

This. What movie did you watch, Seele? Yeah, Asuka would feel a hint of worthlessness on the inside, but on the outside she'd be in uber-bitch mode. It would also leave her character in a completely static state if she acted the way you described.
- Sachi

I host the discord server for the EvaGeeks forums. Join us! https://discord.gg/aBQ3F6M9yp

Seele00TextOnly
Phospholipid Bilayer
Phospholipid Bilayer
Age: 39
Posts: 1806
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Seele00TextOnly » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:21 pm

Well, I did couch what I said in half a dozen caveats. When I use those things I mean them, I'm careful about it. In the part that was quoted I was only addressing her external layer of crunchy fakeness, her fakeness to others and herself. By that I am going back to things referred to in her 22' monologue ("none of these are the real me!" "but you're lying!"), fakenesses that we haven't seen her exhibit much in Rebuild. She's a far more straightforward character here to my eye; the voice of reason and the audience, the person we identify most with. I think there's a real opportunity here to shift much of the conflict and duality that we saw in her in the series into 3.0 instead, where she is broken and unsure how to proceed. I just don't see her rising off the slab in fullblown tornado mode. She'll be in shock. She'll be scared and trying to hold herself together. And first and foremost in order to accomplish that will be the surface; saving face, going again to her NGE incarnation and the up-in-the-air relevance or lack thereof of the removed face sequence.

I guess part of what I'm drawing from includes the throwaway eyecatch shot in the preview, which of course isn't something to judge too much on. Her standing proud and grinning, after such tragedy and defiling that everyone knows about... that, to me, is her veneer, back from the show all the way. Pretending she's okay. pretending she's above everything that's happened. "Oh look how cool I am, I'm back and up and about. And I'm not bothered. All you lesser people would be shattered by what I just went through. But no siree, not me."

"but you're lying!"
Shinji embraces the otaku empowerment fantasy and dives headfirst into his mother's basement. -Chrad
Acts of man are better than acts of god. -Misato

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 10151
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:34 pm

I guess we're waiting for 3.0 then.
- Sachi

I host the discord server for the EvaGeeks forums. Join us! https://discord.gg/aBQ3F6M9yp

Synapsid
Pilot
Pilot
User avatar
Posts: 2143
Joined: Aug 05, 2008
Location: NERV Baths

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Synapsid » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:36 pm

View Original PostChrad wrote:I wouldn't call the harvesting souls a maternal sacrifice so much as Shinji attaining the power of a god and using it for his own selfish ends...which is just the same as what the climax of 2.0 shows.
But Rei played a key role in both of the events and was the active in EoE, Shinji just gave the consent, he was neither a god nor in control then. 2.0 was at least on a superficial level, reversed.

By the way you came up with a much nicer explanation for the R/S role/plot device than I would have used.
Incidentally, what do you think of the idea of Kaworu as a mother figure?
Well, he was a mother in a past life, and goes through the trouble to mention it and yes, I think you could see some of his actions towards Shinji as being maternal. Although he simultaneously serves as a masculine presence around Shinji, in Anno’s words an “Idealized masculine counterpart to Shinji”. That seems somewhat contradictory and ambiguous, but when you look at his character, or any of the protagonists and their roles, contradictory and ambiguous define them. Kaworu’s less than seamless angel/human dualism right back to the “boy with cat” idea fits this too; I wonder if Asuka won’t be playing that part in some form now... In a much diffrent way that is.
View Original PostSachi wrote:contamination made by the Angel, or something like that. I'm not quite sure what the exact line is.
That, and the fact that she’s in a containment chamber rather than an ICU, which kind of indicates that it isn’t physical injuries they’re worried with. I’d say that it’s pretty significant that she’s surrounded by miniature suppressor obelisks, which have only shown up around quarantined Shogoki in the trailer, and angel samples, oh and her room and wire arrangement looks quite a bit like Tuniel’s. Add that to the concepts detailing Bardiel combining with her(face) and yes, I’d think that it’s reasonable to assume that Asuka was contaminated.
Given the apparent lack of injuries shown in containment and preview it’s probably not hard to imagine that what is under the patch ties into the idea of Bardiel bonding to her face.
It's a trap!|Saigo no shisha seitenkan
Genderbending is an important part of any fandom and must be taken very seriously. ZapalacX
If you ever say that name again, I will hunt you down and neuter you with a spork. Sailor Star Dust *cue Shinji's bloodcurling girly scream* LiLi
leave my innocent Shinjiko thread alone! Reichu Asuka would be the one going "SURPRISE BUTTSEKS, BAKA!!!!" while of course in appropriate dress and, *cough, gulp, snort*, with a certain strapped on accessory THE Hal E. Burton 9000

Nonoriri
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 364
Joined: May 18, 2010
Location: NYC
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Nonoriri » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:40 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:I guess we're waiting for 3.0 then.


The Rebuild subforum in a nutshell.

Also the "contamination" in the TV series was also mental but without physical danger, in Rebuild they stress mental contamination with the same dialogue (kinda) but she was obviously in physical danger.

Chrad
Ramiel
Ramiel
Posts: 348
Joined: Sep 02, 2008
Location: Sydney

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chrad » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:06 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:...ridicule him for being "a coward..."well of course, he loves her and I'm just... me..."...ever conflicted true nature...How would she really feel though? Awful, horrible, wrong, and wronged...her anger, pain, and rage will probably be unleashed upon herself...substantial period of hiding behind her tough, no nonsense facade.

And thus, the transformation of Shikinami into Soryu is complete.
View Original PostSynapsid wrote:But Rei played a key role in both of the events and was the active in EoE, Shinji just gave the consent, he was neither a god nor in control then. 2.0 was at least on a superficial level, reversed.
I wasn't saying that he was a god, just that he had god like powers at his disposal, with Rei/Lilith doing his bidding. But anyway, I'd argue it's Shinji as an active force being emphasized in that sequence, versus Rei making a maternal sacrifice at the end of the film.
View Original PostSynapsid wrote:Kaworu’s less than seamless angel/human dualism right back to the “boy with cat” idea fits this too; I wonder if Asuka won’t be playing that part in some form now... In a much diffrent way that is.
I hope not. I like Asuka being the grounded 'human' character, who deals with normal problems in recognizably human (albeit screwed up) ways. We'd have way too much angel/human dualism going on among Shinji's associates if Anno takes Asuka down this path. Then again, given the glowing eyes we've been seeing and the four 'Adams', maybe that's the whole point.

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18667
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:40 am

View Original PostLucretius wrote:That sounds far too understanding for any version of Asuka. Or any person in her place, really. She honestly would have plenty of reason to be outraged, especially if she thought that.


Don't forget Shikinami already stood aside for Rei, to the point of replacing her as test pilot so that she could have her party with Shinji. That's pretty damn understanding.

Do we have any reason to believe this version of Asuka actually hates herself? AFAICT she's just competitive and a little lonely. I haven't seen evidence for anything at all beyond that.

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 10151
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:57 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Don't forget Shikinami already stood aside for Rei, to the point of replacing her as test pilot so that she could have her party with Shinji. That's pretty damn understanding.

It seemed more to me that once Asuka realized Rei was putting on that party that Asuka didn't want any part of it, so she decided to pilot instead. Also so that Rei wouldn't have the glory if she decided to pilot. Wondergirl holding a party for her man AND testing the new Eva? Oh, hell no!

I have a feeling that Asuka really had to think about her identity once she realized that Rei would be winning Shinji over with the party, and by doing so she decided that she lives her life to pilot the Eva, not pander to irrational feelings for another human being. This reevaluation of herself lead to that conversation she had with Misato just before getting in Unit-03. That realization seems like a natural conclusion for somebody who feels like they just lost to another person.
- Sachi

I host the discord server for the EvaGeeks forums. Join us! https://discord.gg/aBQ3F6M9yp

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18667
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:11 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:It seemed more to me that once Asuka realized Rei was putting on that party that Asuka didn't want any part of it, so she decided to pilot instead. Also so that Rei wouldn't have the glory if she decided to pilot. Wondergirl holding a party for her man AND testing the new Eva? Oh, hell no!


Well, note that she couldn't do both. That was rather the point.

I have a feeling that Asuka really had to think about her identity once she realized that Rei would be winning Shinji over with the party, and by doing so she decided that she lives her life to pilot the Eva, not pander to irrational feelings for another human being. This reevaluation of herself lead to that conversation she had with Misato just before getting in Unit-03. That realization seems like a natural conclusion for somebody who feels like they just lost to another person.


What I find most interesting about it all is that she gave up on him without much of a fight -- she could have fought Rei tooth and claw for Shinji's affections, but evidently didn't care to (it might also have struck her as being somewhat catty, given the way the timing of it all worked out). So, either she's very understanding, not particularly interested, focused on piloting, or some combination of the three.

None of which strikes me as a very good recipe for hatred. It just underscores the fact that this is a very different Asuka from the one we all know and love. It's no wonder she was renamed, because she really does appear to be a completely different character.

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 10151
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:59 pm

What I find most interesting about it all is that she gave up on him without much of a fight -- she could have fought Rei tooth and claw for Shinji's affections, but evidently didn't care to (it might also have struck her as being somewhat catty, given the way the timing of it all worked out). So, either she's very understanding, not particularly interested, focused on piloting, or some combination of the three.

Or she's like any teenage girl with a crush and, despite acting like she doesn't care, she's truly hurt.
- Sachi

I host the discord server for the EvaGeeks forums. Join us! https://discord.gg/aBQ3F6M9yp

Defectron
Tentacle Girl
Tentacle Girl
User avatar
Posts: 5843
Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Location: 5th dimension

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Defectron » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:23 pm

What I find most interesting about it all is that she gave up on him without much of a fight -- she could have fought Rei tooth and claw for Shinji's affections, but evidently didn't care to (it might also have struck her as being somewhat catty, given the way the timing of it all worked out). So, either she's very understanding, not particularly interested, focused on piloting, or some combination of the three.


Another thing is that Asukas pride makes it difficult to aknowledge that she's interested in him in the first place, aknowledging being interested in someone who seems to be more inclined to go with her competition is probably even more so for her.
Parasite Galaxy: An experimental webcomic

http://www.parasitegalaxy.com/ Updates Monday and Thursday. Vote for me on top webcomics

If you want to support this comic buy something from me on amazon

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18667
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:32 pm

View Original PostDefectron wrote:Another thing is that Asukas pride makes it difficult to aknowledge that she's interested in him in the first place, aknowledging being interested in someone who seems to be more inclined to go with her competition is probably even more so for her.


I dunno. It seemed like she had that all pretty much sorted out, at least to me. It was the bit with that bandages that really sealed it, coupled with her conversation with Rei. I can't decide which is more mind-boggling -- the fact that she's keen on dolls or the fact that she's apparently shown compassion for Rei.

But then, new character &c, so not so mind-boggling. Just...really unexpected.

SaltyJoe
Bridge Bunny
Bridge Bunny
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 1719
Joined: Apr 23, 2009
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SaltyJoe » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:00 pm

I would like to introduce the idea of Asuka not caring at all what Shinji did or didn't do during the Eva-03 incident because the trials and concerns that arise in her own life following said event vastly overshadow any bitterness that she might feel toward Shinji.

I know this goes against the notion of a Shinji centric narrative where any character's relevance is dictated by his/her relationship to/with Shinji, but i can dream.

Also, i think the main reason Asuka quit Shinji is that she didn't feel "poka poka" around him, like Rei did. She wanted to, but look at the bed scene: when Shinji says "Oh, i hope my dady will tell me i'm a good boy", she looks as disappointed as if someone shot her dog. Shinji is just isn't "the one" for her.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read."


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest